Who has traction control?
Discussion
I am seriously thinking of fitting traction control to the GTR I am putting together at the moment and am wondering if anyone has had any experience of using the traction control system offered by Davis Technologies in the USA. This system does not use external sensors to monitor wheel speed and is apparently fairly easy to fit. Can any of our American friends offer some advice on this subject?
IIRC, the factory used to offer, as an option, Racelogic TC (which uses 4 proximity sensors on the wheels) but the factory dropped this option some time ago.
>> Edited by Alan 2 on Wednesday 4th August 10:47
IIRC, the factory used to offer, as an option, Racelogic TC (which uses 4 proximity sensors on the wheels) but the factory dropped this option some time ago.
>> Edited by Alan 2 on Wednesday 4th August 10:47
Traction Control without wheel speed sensors seems a little dubious to me. I guess you could use accelerometers and watch for changes in the engine speed. I doubt it will ever be as effective, as quick or less prone to false triggering as using wheel sensors.
Traction control seems to me to be a good idea particularly for reducing tyre wear and getting more effective traction out of slow corners. I am planning on fitting wheel sensors soon and adapting my ECU to support them.
Michael Schumacher is quicker with traction control than without and he has the most effective right foot in the business AFAIK!
Traction control seems to me to be a good idea particularly for reducing tyre wear and getting more effective traction out of slow corners. I am planning on fitting wheel sensors soon and adapting my ECU to support them.
Michael Schumacher is quicker with traction control than without and he has the most effective right foot in the business AFAIK!
Alan 2 said:
This system does not use external sensors to monitor wheel speed and is apparently fairly easy to fit.
The only systems that I have seen that don't use external wheel sensors are the ones that tie into the ABS computer. I belive the race logic can be installed that way. If they are not using any type of wheel sensor I would find out how it works before buying it.
mark
davefiddes said:
Michael Schumacher is quicker with traction control than without and he has the most effective right foot in the business AFAIK!
Well put Dave. I had the Racelogic system installed. I decided to go-ahead with the system after emailing with Bluesatin (Thanks Guy!) about how he liked his and then speaking with the people at Racelogic. I have EFI so the installation was pretty straight-forward although my builder has had to send the system back to the factory for some software issues. I like the option of controlling the amount of slip depending on the conditions. Once the GTR is on the road......I'll let you know how much I need it.
Brad Z
I used to work opposite the Racelogic factory, every single day of the week all sorts of exoctia would turn up on the back of a trailer to be fettled with.
The funniest thing i saw was the day some super tricked up supra turned up on a trailer (held some speed record around the 'ring apparently), and someone fitting some number plates to it from an identical road going supra - and them taking it out for a spin - luckily the local law enforcement didn't spot the racing slicks on it!!
e.
The funniest thing i saw was the day some super tricked up supra turned up on a trailer (held some speed record around the 'ring apparently), and someone fitting some number plates to it from an identical road going supra - and them taking it out for a spin - luckily the local law enforcement didn't spot the racing slicks on it!!
e.
davefiddes said:
Michael Schumacher is quicker with traction control than without and he has the most effective right foot in the business AFAIK!
Hardly a fair comparison Dave as traction control in F1 was brought in with a host of other mods too. Year on year the cars get quicker - that's called 'development' not TRC.
It's down to personal preference I guess, but if it's so great, then why do most cars have a button to override it?
I'd suggest you speak to the factory about it, I know Ted's a big fan
Maybe it's just a 'thing' with us racers
Stig said:
Hardly a fair comparison Dave as traction control in F1 was brought in with a host of other mods too.
The drivers can turn it off if they wish during the race. None of them do other than when warming tyres up or when it's broken. There's a reason for that...
Stig said:
It's down to personal preference I guess, but if it's so great, then why do most cars have a button to override it?
Ah, the "journalist" button. Perhaps so they can create crazy powerslides for the TV or magazine shoots??? Normal road car TC is different anyway as it works on a much more conservative basis than race systems like the Racelogic.
Stig said:
I'd suggest you speak to the factory about it, I know Ted's a big fan
I can understand why. There's no denying that it spoils the aesthetic of the car introducing a controlled misfire. The RaceLogic system looks as complex to fit as the whole of the rest of an Ultima's electrics and could easily be a source of problems. It's also not a great fit for carb'd cars. Also you have a very valid point about limiting the use of your right foot. TC isn't a "get out of jail free" card.
Stig said:
Maybe it's just a 'thing' with us racers
Perhaps. Racers like to be in total control of the vehicle. I can understand that. I'm a professional engineer and a weekend beginning racer and I'll consider anything that gives me an unfair advantage
Factory tried TC in the early stages of development and things have moved on significantly in the last 5 years.
On carbs it still works fine especially with 10-15% slip!
This clip shows Stig crazy and myself leaving the pub
www.pistonheads.tv/redirect.asp?id=79
Mine is the one without black smoke and TC!
On carbs it still works fine especially with 10-15% slip!
This clip shows Stig crazy and myself leaving the pub
www.pistonheads.tv/redirect.asp?id=79
Mine is the one without black smoke and TC!
Hi Guys,
It's all down to personal preference I think. I like to be in control of all aspects of the Ultima and if it spins up it's all my fault! The Sports is not fitted with Traction Control and certainly when the car was used as the Bedford hack it provided many a grin in it's purest form.
For me, traction control is a pain in the neck for track days, it's proved too intrusive when you are searching for power - I have it on my Alpina B10 Bi-Turbo. It's a heavy car with 380+ ft/lbs torque and sits on monster tyres. On this BMW the traction control is called 'ASC' & is only adjustable by turning it off, but as the car has an LSD I cannot really see it's use other than road driving in the wet and Winter...
It's almost dangerous in certain conditions, for example while cornering hard, as it's the power which balances the car - when the power is cut due to inside wheel spin (however slight)the suspension loading is released and the handling upset inducing understeer on occasions.
Later cars, the BMWs M3's in particular, have 'DSC' where traction control is a mixture of engine management and brake assist - it allows ordinary drivers to do things they don't have the skill for, but ultimately when the tyres let go, the breakaway is far more pronounced and violent.
On the Enzo it's probably very necessary to preserve insurance premiums and reduce law suits. The F40 by contrast does not have TC and is a hoot - not sure about the McClaren (?)
[I'm not entering the F1 debate here as their traction control systems are very complex designed to assist performance, not for safety.]
In summary, I've never driven an Ultima with TC so can't comment on that one but it wouldn't tempt me either.
Apologies for the essay... it just happened!
Cheers,
Dave
It's all down to personal preference I think. I like to be in control of all aspects of the Ultima and if it spins up it's all my fault! The Sports is not fitted with Traction Control and certainly when the car was used as the Bedford hack it provided many a grin in it's purest form.
For me, traction control is a pain in the neck for track days, it's proved too intrusive when you are searching for power - I have it on my Alpina B10 Bi-Turbo. It's a heavy car with 380+ ft/lbs torque and sits on monster tyres. On this BMW the traction control is called 'ASC' & is only adjustable by turning it off, but as the car has an LSD I cannot really see it's use other than road driving in the wet and Winter...
It's almost dangerous in certain conditions, for example while cornering hard, as it's the power which balances the car - when the power is cut due to inside wheel spin (however slight)the suspension loading is released and the handling upset inducing understeer on occasions.
Later cars, the BMWs M3's in particular, have 'DSC' where traction control is a mixture of engine management and brake assist - it allows ordinary drivers to do things they don't have the skill for, but ultimately when the tyres let go, the breakaway is far more pronounced and violent.
On the Enzo it's probably very necessary to preserve insurance premiums and reduce law suits. The F40 by contrast does not have TC and is a hoot - not sure about the McClaren (?)
[I'm not entering the F1 debate here as their traction control systems are very complex designed to assist performance, not for safety.]
In summary, I've never driven an Ultima with TC so can't comment on that one but it wouldn't tempt me either.
Apologies for the essay... it just happened!
Cheers,
Dave
Bluesatin,
Of course not!
The Race logic or Motec systems only take into account whether the driving wheels are turning at a faster rate than the front, and therefore spinning. Thats it.
I'm sure the BMW system takes into account stuff like yaw and pitch rate, g forces, steering input, accelerator position, the stains on your under garments, etc.
All I want is to be able to take off as quickly as is physically possible at every attempt.
I am dumb, but I am not stupid, so I know that the GTR is a far more capable car than I am as a driver. TC will not be idiot proof, but at least it will help me while I "learn the ropes".
Of course not!
The Race logic or Motec systems only take into account whether the driving wheels are turning at a faster rate than the front, and therefore spinning. Thats it.
I'm sure the BMW system takes into account stuff like yaw and pitch rate, g forces, steering input, accelerator position, the stains on your under garments, etc.
All I want is to be able to take off as quickly as is physically possible at every attempt.
I am dumb, but I am not stupid, so I know that the GTR is a far more capable car than I am as a driver. TC will not be idiot proof, but at least it will help me while I "learn the ropes".
doc fudge said:
I am dumb, but I am not stupid, so I know that the GTR is a far more capable car than I am as a driver. TC will not be idiot proof, but at least it will help me while I "learn the ropes".
Bluesatin said:
I agree
That is while I fitted it!
Me too.
Brad Z
>> Edited by usagtrman on Thursday 5th August 19:44
>> Edited by usagtrman on Thursday 5th August 19:49
bluesatin said:
This clip shows Stig crazy and myself leaving the pub
www.pistonheads.tv/redirect.asp?id=79
Mine is the one without black smoke and TC!
Guy - not exactly sure what the relevance of the clip is? I deliberately gave it 'large' for the benefit of the cameras. If you'd have preferred a maximum traction/minimum slip takeoff I would have obliged.
As for lack of black smoke, well, that'll be the 100hp or so that you're lacking
On a more serious note (as blue and I know the score), there's nothing inherintly 'wrong' with TC, in fact, there are plenty of situations where it has a positive influence. However, it's a 'horses for courses' scenario. I've never felt the need for it, so have never bothered. Who knows, if I fitted it, it may do my driving the world of good. For the time being though, I'm happy to play hooligan.
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