Ultima GTR - Audi V8 self build....
Discussion
First of all hello to you all, this is my first visit on here and it was specifically to find some people with Ultimas as there seem to be limited forums for them.
I am starting this topic with an expectation that a fair few people will shoot me down and say why, NO, forget it. But please bear with me and give me fair responses, I appreciate negative and positive feedback equally so please feel free to comment.
I am planning a new car build project to put into my newly built garage which will be complete by Christmas.
I have always had a long running desire to build a car from scratch, but want to end up with something which is exceptional in chassis dynamics as much as in looks, power and quality of finish.
The logical route to this is start with a well proven chassis (cue Ultima) and a good looking body which fits straight to it (cue Ultima again) and then figure out how to install a suitable powerplant, gearbox, wiring, interior etc..etc..
I could of course just buy each of the elements from Ultima and work through a standard build, ending up with an amazing car at the end of it, however are two things which are stopping me doing this. Short term costs (house is soaking up most of my funds) and a desire to do something different, which requires engineering, custom fabrication and overall car building challenges, outside of the norm.
This is where I would like some feedback. I have an idea to buy just a bear Ultima chassis to start with and and a second hand Audi V8 and suitable Audi manual gearbox, along with the full car loom, ecu etc.. etc.. then spend a good amount of time figuring out how to mount this in the chassis correctly and link everything together.
Then in time acquire the hubs and suspension from Ultima to make sure the chassis geometry is correct, but install my own spin on the interior, clocks instruments etc.. all working with the factory Audi loom.
First of all, how easy is it to come by a Ultima chassis, do people abandon projects ever? I am assuming I will just buy one from Ultima, after all they are not that much. Can anyone see any fundamental issues with the basic concept? Finally is there anyone in Cheshire who has built one, or owns one I could just have a look over to see how they come together and how things might work...
Let the flaming begin
Jay
I am starting this topic with an expectation that a fair few people will shoot me down and say why, NO, forget it. But please bear with me and give me fair responses, I appreciate negative and positive feedback equally so please feel free to comment.
I am planning a new car build project to put into my newly built garage which will be complete by Christmas.
I have always had a long running desire to build a car from scratch, but want to end up with something which is exceptional in chassis dynamics as much as in looks, power and quality of finish.
The logical route to this is start with a well proven chassis (cue Ultima) and a good looking body which fits straight to it (cue Ultima again) and then figure out how to install a suitable powerplant, gearbox, wiring, interior etc..etc..
I could of course just buy each of the elements from Ultima and work through a standard build, ending up with an amazing car at the end of it, however are two things which are stopping me doing this. Short term costs (house is soaking up most of my funds) and a desire to do something different, which requires engineering, custom fabrication and overall car building challenges, outside of the norm.
This is where I would like some feedback. I have an idea to buy just a bear Ultima chassis to start with and and a second hand Audi V8 and suitable Audi manual gearbox, along with the full car loom, ecu etc.. etc.. then spend a good amount of time figuring out how to mount this in the chassis correctly and link everything together.
Then in time acquire the hubs and suspension from Ultima to make sure the chassis geometry is correct, but install my own spin on the interior, clocks instruments etc.. all working with the factory Audi loom.
First of all, how easy is it to come by a Ultima chassis, do people abandon projects ever? I am assuming I will just buy one from Ultima, after all they are not that much. Can anyone see any fundamental issues with the basic concept? Finally is there anyone in Cheshire who has built one, or owns one I could just have a look over to see how they come together and how things might work...
Let the flaming begin
Jay
If you can do all the fabrication the Audi v8s and gearboxes make a lovely combo in an ultima.
The engines and boxes are typically cheaper than the Chevy/Porsche equivalents and if you don't put a cost on your time there's no reason why it should cost more than a factory standard.
I say go for it
The engines and boxes are typically cheaper than the Chevy/Porsche equivalents and if you don't put a cost on your time there's no reason why it should cost more than a factory standard.
I say go for it
The Audi engines I've seen have had a lot of the injection system stripped off and replaced by throttle bodies, not sure that you can use the wiring loom, but the up side is that you can pick up a engine and box for probably the cost a LS3, no adaptor plate needed just need a flywheel made up. You'll need to fabricate engine/gearbox mounts and the other good news is that there is room in front of the engine to install a fuel tank across the rear bulkhead, leaving space in each side pod for either the oil cooler and air con rad, or to be radical, twin radiators, but you'll need to work on air extraction for those.
In summary, what you are asking is doable, has been done and there are people out there with answers to most of the questions you're going to ask
Oh welcome and good luck
Graham
In summary, what you are asking is doable, has been done and there are people out there with answers to most of the questions you're going to ask
Oh welcome and good luck
Graham
Jay G60Renshaw.... not James Renshaw off of VW Golfs, by chance?
Anyway, welcome! I definately think that a nice V8 Audi engine & box would be a great "fit" for an Ultima, so it would be great to see it come to life. My advice would be to use the common sense bits from the factory where possible (suspension, brakes, main chassis wiring loom) and look to use a good specialist to help you with some of the bespoke work (be careful to pick the right one(s)). People have done Audi engines in these cars before (mostly on the continent) and also V10/12 motors, so there will be some folks out there who can advise on what to expect when deviating from GM/Porsche setups.
I'm in the west mids and building a Can Am very much to my spec / desires, with a custom interior, so if you want to discuss in more detail or see where I've got to with the build (mostly just the interior to do now), feel free to drop me a line.
Mark (www.facebook.com/ultima.can.am.build)
Anyway, welcome! I definately think that a nice V8 Audi engine & box would be a great "fit" for an Ultima, so it would be great to see it come to life. My advice would be to use the common sense bits from the factory where possible (suspension, brakes, main chassis wiring loom) and look to use a good specialist to help you with some of the bespoke work (be careful to pick the right one(s)). People have done Audi engines in these cars before (mostly on the continent) and also V10/12 motors, so there will be some folks out there who can advise on what to expect when deviating from GM/Porsche setups.
I'm in the west mids and building a Can Am very much to my spec / desires, with a custom interior, so if you want to discuss in more detail or see where I've got to with the build (mostly just the interior to do now), feel free to drop me a line.
Mark (www.facebook.com/ultima.can.am.build)
Thanks for all the replies guys.
Yes I am James Renshaw from various VW projects. How do you know that?
I might be able to get away without a Q plate if I buy a complete Audi as the donor car, but either way I am not too bothered.
I will spend some time doing my research and doing lots of reading, but would really love to spend some time over a brew with someone who has built their own ultima.
Jay
Yes I am James Renshaw from various VW projects. How do you know that?
I might be able to get away without a Q plate if I buy a complete Audi as the donor car, but either way I am not too bothered.
I will spend some time doing my research and doing lots of reading, but would really love to spend some time over a brew with someone who has built their own ultima.
Jay
Captain Slog said:
Re Second hand Audi Engine,
What proportion of a build must be 'New Components' to avoid a 'Q' plate
Steve
For a current plate all new parts bar one major assembly which must be reconditioned to an as new standard. So for an engine you would need to show receipts for all the parts used in the rebuild.What proportion of a build must be 'New Components' to avoid a 'Q' plate
Steve
Steve
ETA You could go for an age related plate if you could demonstrate you had used sufficient parts from a donor vehicle. I doubt you would get enough points on the DVLA system.
Edited by Steve_D on Saturday 11th August 22:24
g60renshaw said:
I might be able to get away without a Q plate if I buy a complete Audi as the donor car, but either way I am not too bothered.
Jay
Not sure the factory would want a Q plate on the road. Donor cars mean nothing when building an Ultima as nothing other than the power train comes from mainstream cars, so don't waste your money buying a complete car, there are plenty of engines (some new) out there. You are allowed one item to be remanufactured to an as new condition, so that means buying either the gearbox new and having the engine remanufactured, or the other way around. Either way you have to produce paperwork to prove this, with the box folder of all the other invoices for new items.Jay
As I said earlier I think you'll find that the engine will need a bit work to run, so I would get this as secondhand and the rework could be invoiced as remanufactured
This is where I consider the S/H values have gone to pot........ one that has a looser emissions (pre 75 reg sbc etc) actually should attract a premium as it allows the developer room to explore.. LS brigade can be handcuffed to miniscule numbers AND pay a premium in build cost !!!
OOPs ......... brown fan blades again !
OOPs ......... brown fan blades again !
I think auto bionics have done a couple of Audi engined cars, possibly the guru SS
or check back through the threads.
You are welcome to have a look at mine in cheshire, but I bought it built, and can't give you any information regarding build issues sorry.
or check back through the threads.
You are welcome to have a look at mine in cheshire, but I bought it built, and can't give you any information regarding build issues sorry.
Edited by highflyer on Monday 13th August 09:51
Graham-P said:
Why spend all that money and potentially stand to lose quite bit due to a Q plate.
A Q plated Ultima would be quite a novelty! Think of all the interest it would generate, all the questions that would have to be answered.Personally I have nothing against a Q plate car as long as it's put together properly. One of my other cars is a Q plate, and although it is 16 years old, according to the registration number, it could have been registered yesterday!
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