Engine options
Discussion
Well, looks as if it won't be long before my GTR build starts and I was wondering what you lot think regarding engine options?
A 460hp American Speed Chevy comes in at about 6k for turnkey but it's a heavy old lump. Anyone have any experience of the Ford (or anything else come to that?).
What do you reckon gives the best bang-for-buck...errr pound?
A 460hp American Speed Chevy comes in at about 6k for turnkey but it's a heavy old lump. Anyone have any experience of the Ford (or anything else come to that?).
What do you reckon gives the best bang-for-buck...errr pound?
BMW V12 would be nice and I considered it with the F1 connection. Same goes for Mercedes AMG units - they fly!
It's really a question of the additional weight of the Chevy vs. another power unit. The Chevy's convenient as Ultima have designed the GTR with it in mind.
Still - where's the challenge in that eh!
It's really a question of the additional weight of the Chevy vs. another power unit. The Chevy's convenient as Ultima have designed the GTR with it in mind.
Still - where's the challenge in that eh!
If I recall correctly the Ultima chassis is designed to be mated with a Chevy and the Ford requires some kind of an adaption device??
I would speculate the BMW powerplant would need some kind of adaption too. How heavy is a BMW V12 vs. the Chevy, vs. the Mac F1 engine. The American Speed Engines hopefully come with an aluminum block. I doubt the sedan BMW V12 is an aluminum block but I presume the F1 engine is. The impression I got was that BMW designed the Mac engine from the ground up. At the time BMW already had a V12 designed for road cars whoose basic design lives on today. (Can you still get a V12 in that gadgety new 7 series?)
I think Barter has got the right idea. 500 horsepower sounds soooo nice.
Then again 400 horse power in an Ultima would be more exhilerating than anything I have ever driven. Is dry sumping and EFI costly? Cost/Benifit ratio 
It's too bad there are not any common turbo charged power sources. I think this would allow a smaller lighter engine but with potentially massive hp. As is now thou if you wanted a turbo charger one would prob. have to pay a specialist to design the darn plumbing.
Good luck to the builders. Way to go!
I would speculate the BMW powerplant would need some kind of adaption too. How heavy is a BMW V12 vs. the Chevy, vs. the Mac F1 engine. The American Speed Engines hopefully come with an aluminum block. I doubt the sedan BMW V12 is an aluminum block but I presume the F1 engine is. The impression I got was that BMW designed the Mac engine from the ground up. At the time BMW already had a V12 designed for road cars whoose basic design lives on today. (Can you still get a V12 in that gadgety new 7 series?)
I think Barter has got the right idea. 500 horsepower sounds soooo nice.
Then again 400 horse power in an Ultima would be more exhilerating than anything I have ever driven. Is dry sumping and EFI costly? Cost/Benifit ratio It's too bad there are not any common turbo charged power sources. I think this would allow a smaller lighter engine but with potentially massive hp. As is now thou if you wanted a turbo charger one would prob. have to pay a specialist to design the darn plumbing.
Good luck to the builders. Way to go!
quote:
It's too bad there are not any common turbo charged power sources. I think this would allow a smaller lighter engine but with potentially massive hp. As is now thou if you wanted a turbo charger one would prob. have to pay a specialist to design the darn plumbing.
Ummmm . . . Porsche 993 Turbo 4 engine? 420 brake as standard, can turn it up to 450 for peanuts, 500 doable but requires bigger and better everything. And it's very driveable - I took a 480hp version on a test drive a couple of years ago, and it trickled along in traffic quite happily. The best advice was "make sure you pull out from traffic BEFORE you floor it for the overtake"
Some of the idears listed sound fine in theory, but you need to look at the whole picture.
What adapterplate is required to mate a BMW V12 to a Porsche G50?
Would a small turbo lump sound like an Ultima or Hoover?
Thought about going Alloy block? What about SVA? Do you really want to have Cats etc?
Going Rover? Bloody expensive to get big power!
Do all the reserch, look at the options, dream about driving a 500bhp hoover! Go for the Chevvy. Mine came in at 1000kg's exact. And it's ONLY got 425bhp .... oh, and about 525 ft/lb of torque. It works well!
What adapterplate is required to mate a BMW V12 to a Porsche G50?
Would a small turbo lump sound like an Ultima or Hoover?
Thought about going Alloy block? What about SVA? Do you really want to have Cats etc?
Going Rover? Bloody expensive to get big power!
Do all the reserch, look at the options, dream about driving a 500bhp hoover! Go for the Chevvy. Mine came in at 1000kg's exact. And it's ONLY got 425bhp .... oh, and about 525 ft/lb of torque. It works well!
quote:
If I recall correctly the Ultima chassis is designed to be mated with a Chevy and the Ford requires some kind of an adaption device??
I'd like to clarify the situation re: engines.
To fit any other lump is quite posssible but involves re-engineering the engine mounts and often a lot of the ancillary placements. There are a number of Ultimas built with Ford V6, Rover V8, Ford V8, Ford RS Cosworth, at least one Jag V12, Audi V8, and one Porshe Flat 6. All of these required a lot of work with perhaps the Rover and Ford options the easiest. The engine mounts have to be repositioned correctly to keep the driveshafts in the right place to limit excessive angularity through the joints at suspension extremes. This can be difficult to achieve given the crankshaft height and sump depth of some engines. The next major hurdle is the exhaust system, both asthetically and in terms of noise (remember SVA).
The adapter plate which is required to mate the inverted G50 transaxle is also something which has to be independantley sourced if a different engine is used. There are some "standard plates" available but BMW,Jag,Audi may be difficult. The Porsche engines which are natively joined to the G50 still require an adapter by virtue of the Ultima installation of the Trans being inverted.(its behind the enginein the Ultima). Finally, consider the resale value of a none standard car. Its already a niche market and a re-engined car may only appeal to an even smaller niche of that niche market.
My advice is stick to the Chevy small block motor, why try to re-invent the wheel?
Add my post to that of Ultimapaul and you have the weight of the argument against none standard builds.
I would also like to agree with Stig. It has to be a V8.
From an engineering point of view, the location of intercoolers is also difficult if reliability is to be achieved at high boosts.
I would also like to agree with Stig. It has to be a V8.
From an engineering point of view, the location of intercoolers is also difficult if reliability is to be achieved at high boosts.
I know what you mean Ultiman, I was "Ultima'd" by the Silver factory car on the N138 and I was doing well over the ton when he blasted past ..... Made me jump and the hairs on my neck stand to attention.
Only 51 weeks till we get to play again
PS: I'll toot me horn as a warning next time Ultiman
>> Edited by ultimapaul on Friday 21st June 20:01
Only 51 weeks till we get to play again
PS: I'll toot me horn as a warning next time Ultiman
>> Edited by ultimapaul on Friday 21st June 20:01
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