Cold Air Induction
Discussion
why cant you fit this by the inlet into the top of the clam?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/parts-and-p...
dom
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/parts-and-p...
dom
This system works very well on my Kinsler induction for my LS motor. Those two filters are K/N dirt track filters that are rated to pass 2400 CFM. Obviously if you have a singe throttle body on an LS you will need to develop a 180 bend to this type of box. I would suggest a flat filter mounted in the box horizontally. My current set up with the gold foil shows a consistent inlet air temp of 2 to 3 degrees above ambient in traffic or moving down the road. Something I learned from an race engineer way smarter than me is, leave some room around stacks or a single inlet, there are boundary layer issues if you get to close to a wall. Lee
DHGTR said:
Ok Guys, whose running what air intakes on the LS engines. Need to change mine I don't like it.
DHGTR, Do you have a photo of your setup? Not sure if what I did was better then what you currently have, I used a 180 degree 4 inch silicon tube like many others have done with a huge air filter to catch air coming from the scoop. A box like Lee did would be better and I'm planning to build one. Jim
[quote=ROWDYRENAULT]This system works very well on my Kinsler induction for my LS motor. quote]
Lee, What material did you use for the box? I'm looking to build a box but want a material that can withstand the heat, is light and provides an R factor of some degree and then add the gold wrap as well over the material. Jim
Lee, What material did you use for the box? I'm looking to build a box but want a material that can withstand the heat, is light and provides an R factor of some degree and then add the gold wrap as well over the material. Jim
I had one made almost exactly Lee out 0.032" aircraft aluminum (I'm in that business) and the gold foil.
Inlet temps used to be 35 to 40c on a cool day and now are 5c above ambient! Further mods are planned for a roof scoop to bring it down further.
My data engineer who did my latest remap said that 1c reduction = 1hp! In my opinion huge cost benefit advantage.
And you really need to go with the extra cost of the gold foil as it really works as well looking trick.
Inlet temps used to be 35 to 40c on a cool day and now are 5c above ambient! Further mods are planned for a roof scoop to bring it down further.
My data engineer who did my latest remap said that 1c reduction = 1hp! In my opinion huge cost benefit advantage.
And you really need to go with the extra cost of the gold foil as it really works as well looking trick.
Adding to what Toni has said, the formula listed in engineering books here is " a change of 7 degrees F will equal a 1% change in hp". Obviously you don't gain HP, the engine makes a given amount of HP on a dyno corrected to standard temp and altitude above mean sea level. But if you can get the temp below standard and the engine has the band width to change to the correct A/F ratio the engine will make above spec H.P. What the box does is hold the spec H.P. by lowering the inlet temp below what the engine would see without the box.My box is made out of aluminum with the obvious gold foil. I think the carbon Fiber box is gorgeous but I don't think that it seals to the scoop?????????????? I would submit that this would allow a lot of hot air off the engine to be ingested. Also as pretty as the carbon is I do not think that it's going to give you the thermal properties of the gold foil over metal. At the moment I am developing a new filter box combination. I am using a flat panel K/N filter 20 inches by 16 that fits a Indy car. This will be mounted to the hood in a box and this piece will stay with the hood when it is opened. This way the 8 stacks for the Kinsler injection will be in plain view when the car is displayed with the hood up. The primary reason for the change is my current box has to be removed to adjust the individual bleed screws on the injectors to balance them, which is a pain in the tail pipe. Lee
I also saw the power difference when I had my engine remapped last year. about 38bhp down with my 'snorkel' type, as opposed to a big hose hanging over the roof and feeding onto my filter. The hose wasn't sealed for a lossless feed but did make a big difference.
The air box is my preferred option but wondered if anybody had also moved their filter down to the fuel tank area .... or maybe something completely different.
My current setup :-
The air box is my preferred option but wondered if anybody had also moved their filter down to the fuel tank area .... or maybe something completely different.
My current setup :-
The best solution would be CF with a gold foil on it. Aluminium is very bad as isolation against heat, as we use it as heat conductor.
Thermal conduction coefficients:
- CF perpendicular to weaving = 1-2 W/m°C
- Aluminium = 237 W/m°C
It is a factor of more than 100 between the materials. The gold foil should be placed only on the side facing the hot elements, as it reflects the IR wavelenght, not really the hot air in contact with it. Putting gold foil on indirect surfaces would bring little/no benefits. To check where gold foils are needed, I would touch the different surfaces of the air box after an intensive run to check the hotter ones, or measure it with a IR measurement device or camera on CF.
Thermal conduction coefficients:
- CF perpendicular to weaving = 1-2 W/m°C
- Aluminium = 237 W/m°C
It is a factor of more than 100 between the materials. The gold foil should be placed only on the side facing the hot elements, as it reflects the IR wavelenght, not really the hot air in contact with it. Putting gold foil on indirect surfaces would bring little/no benefits. To check where gold foils are needed, I would touch the different surfaces of the air box after an intensive run to check the hotter ones, or measure it with a IR measurement device or camera on CF.
Edited by UltimaFAN on Wednesday 19th March 18:53
This is mine. Not as neat as some on here (why do they fold the gold foil!!!!!!!!) but made with my own fair hands from aluminium. Filters are K&N Range Rover 4.6 (x2).
When I fitted this setup (my second attempt as I was told the old one was restricting airflow) it released an extra 10% power.
The rubber seal around the lip closes tight against my acrylic cover so only air from outside the clip can enter the engine.
Hope this helps.
Paul
When I fitted this setup (my second attempt as I was told the old one was restricting airflow) it released an extra 10% power.
The rubber seal around the lip closes tight against my acrylic cover so only air from outside the clip can enter the engine.
Hope this helps.
Paul
The formula behind it is the Fourier's law which says that the heat flux density going through a material is a multiplication of the thermal conduction coefficient by the difference of temperature. It is a differential formula. But to make it simple, it says that the lower the thermal conduction coefficient k is, the slower the heat will go through the material.
This only takes into account the heat transmission within the material, but not the absorption at the surface and this is very different depending of material. This absorption will come from two effects:
1) Simple transfer with the hot air. The difference between Al and CF is minimal.
2) Absorption of IR radiation. Al is better as it is a mirror. Black CF is very bad as it is black. Thus it is important to cover the carbon fiber with reflective shield on the surface facing hot element. This is something I would do on the lower part of the box if I were Abbosevolution after a temperature hand check on the air box with a hot engine bay and exhaust.
By the way, where is the best place to get the pure gold thin foil (example Zircotec), not the anodized one?
This only takes into account the heat transmission within the material, but not the absorption at the surface and this is very different depending of material. This absorption will come from two effects:
1) Simple transfer with the hot air. The difference between Al and CF is minimal.
2) Absorption of IR radiation. Al is better as it is a mirror. Black CF is very bad as it is black. Thus it is important to cover the carbon fiber with reflective shield on the surface facing hot element. This is something I would do on the lower part of the box if I were Abbosevolution after a temperature hand check on the air box with a hot engine bay and exhaust.
By the way, where is the best place to get the pure gold thin foil (example Zircotec), not the anodized one?
Edited by UltimaFAN on Thursday 20th March 09:42
We have a similar setup to some of the ones shown on here - and log airbox temp and pressure.
Note there is no reflective material near the box, and the height of the headers - and still we see max temperatures of ~35 deg C.
I would guess that some of this is actually heat soak into the sensor...at a rough flow rate of hundreds of litres per second at 6k RPM through the airbox - how much heat do you really think is absorbed by the air?!
Note there is no reflective material near the box, and the height of the headers - and still we see max temperatures of ~35 deg C.
I would guess that some of this is actually heat soak into the sensor...at a rough flow rate of hundreds of litres per second at 6k RPM through the airbox - how much heat do you really think is absorbed by the air?!
Very limited effect, but I thought that we were talking about 1-2°. High flow air means a lot of turbulence, then improved heat transfer with a hot surface. With the headers so close, it could be possible to check the theory with a simple alu heat shield in the air between the box and the intakes to stop the radiation.
For road application, the gold would be more aesthetic and to protect the surface of the epoxy from excessive heat when stuck in traffic jam.
Nice shape of your air intakes for smoother flow.
For road application, the gold would be more aesthetic and to protect the surface of the epoxy from excessive heat when stuck in traffic jam.
Nice shape of your air intakes for smoother flow.
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