ford brake upgrade
Discussion
i've been working on this for a few weeks.
The granada cosworth had much larger discs fitted (280/270mm) and they are vented on the front and rear axle. you can buy these new from my factors for about 120 for a full set. The single sided calipers use the same piston unit as the standard car, ie the same as those fitted to a ford equiped ultima.
It is only the cradel element that is different to allow mounting to the bigger wider disc. This means that you can keep your nice clean low mileage units that are probably already on your car. Refurb for 4 corners would cost as much as 400 pounds.
The factory swear by the origonal ford equipment pads, that ford genuine not mopart a full set of pads is about 130 plus vat.
To recap you need one pair of scrap rear calipers, one set of scrap front cosworth or "bog eye" later model V6 items (check re later car, i know the disc size is the same as the earlier cosworth). the rears are a little difficult to find but the fronts should be easy.
costs
full set of discs 120
full set of ford pads 150
scrap cossy/ latter V6 calipers 20-100 pounds
a litre or so of DOT fluid 10 quid
thats 300-370 for a complete brake refurb/upgrade, i've been speaking to some granada cossy owners and they recon the brakes are well up to the job, all these cars were autos too so they had lots to do.
ps i have a spare set of cossy rears that i may sell on.
also, i've not actually fitted this lot to my car yet so the above comes with a health warning. I'll post when complete.
regards
ed
The granada cosworth had much larger discs fitted (280/270mm) and they are vented on the front and rear axle. you can buy these new from my factors for about 120 for a full set. The single sided calipers use the same piston unit as the standard car, ie the same as those fitted to a ford equiped ultima.
It is only the cradel element that is different to allow mounting to the bigger wider disc. This means that you can keep your nice clean low mileage units that are probably already on your car. Refurb for 4 corners would cost as much as 400 pounds.
The factory swear by the origonal ford equipment pads, that ford genuine not mopart a full set of pads is about 130 plus vat.
To recap you need one pair of scrap rear calipers, one set of scrap front cosworth or "bog eye" later model V6 items (check re later car, i know the disc size is the same as the earlier cosworth). the rears are a little difficult to find but the fronts should be easy.
costs
full set of discs 120
full set of ford pads 150
scrap cossy/ latter V6 calipers 20-100 pounds
a litre or so of DOT fluid 10 quid
thats 300-370 for a complete brake refurb/upgrade, i've been speaking to some granada cossy owners and they recon the brakes are well up to the job, all these cars were autos too so they had lots to do.
ps i have a spare set of cossy rears that i may sell on.
also, i've not actually fitted this lot to my car yet so the above comes with a health warning. I'll post when complete.
regards
ed
Ed
IMHO The factory AP racing disk are a key part of making your car resaleable, and without AP or Brembo brakes will greatly effect its desirability.
Just my opinion ...but here is a conversation
You "I own one of the worlds fastest cars, I spec'd everything, it's got 500 or 600 bhp 0-60 in a split second"
"Cool, what brakes have you got ..."
Cough "ford granada"
OH !!
IMO Save money on the engine, shocks, wheels, seats not the brakes
Of course this is my opinion, the great thing about Ultimas is you spec your own car to what you want and can spend and good luck.
G Man
IMHO The factory AP racing disk are a key part of making your car resaleable, and without AP or Brembo brakes will greatly effect its desirability.
Just my opinion ...but here is a conversation
You "I own one of the worlds fastest cars, I spec'd everything, it's got 500 or 600 bhp 0-60 in a split second"
"Cool, what brakes have you got ..."
Cough "ford granada"
OH !!
IMO Save money on the engine, shocks, wheels, seats not the brakes
Of course this is my opinion, the great thing about Ultimas is you spec your own car to what you want and can spend and good luck.
G Man
hey G
I've got a mk 4 sport already fitted with ford plank brakes. They are a bit lacking could be because the car's been standing, could be because the're just cack.
I've bought the car to take two or three track days per year. The resale issue is not an issue at this time but i am aware of it. I've wanted one of these for so long i realy cant see me selling it on, I simply cant think of a step up. Not at this money.
I do have a pair of ap racing front calipers aquired from chris at z cars who's doing the twin hyabuser 4*4 record attempt car. i could bolt them on to my car but i'm left with monsters in the front and tichy grannys on the rear. Not advisble with a mid engine configuration. there's a general lack of handbrake calipers at this time.
The cosworth route is an experiment but if it works i'm very happy. If it stops consistently i'm made up.
fact is having only just bought the car, invested in new tyres/front wheels/dropped floor conversion and a replacemt fuel tank my funds have taken a big it. First kid on the way in may as well.
i certainly wont make things any worse for a very modest outlay.
on a saleability level i bet my 98 mk4 with chevy and
g50 moves on a damn site quicker at 23-25 k than a gtr with same chassis/engine at 33-64k. That might sound a little abrasive but i think i could be right.
I've got a mk 4 sport already fitted with ford plank brakes. They are a bit lacking could be because the car's been standing, could be because the're just cack.
I've bought the car to take two or three track days per year. The resale issue is not an issue at this time but i am aware of it. I've wanted one of these for so long i realy cant see me selling it on, I simply cant think of a step up. Not at this money.
I do have a pair of ap racing front calipers aquired from chris at z cars who's doing the twin hyabuser 4*4 record attempt car. i could bolt them on to my car but i'm left with monsters in the front and tichy grannys on the rear. Not advisble with a mid engine configuration. there's a general lack of handbrake calipers at this time.
The cosworth route is an experiment but if it works i'm very happy. If it stops consistently i'm made up.
fact is having only just bought the car, invested in new tyres/front wheels/dropped floor conversion and a replacemt fuel tank my funds have taken a big it. First kid on the way in may as well.
i certainly wont make things any worse for a very modest outlay.
on a saleability level i bet my 98 mk4 with chevy and
g50 moves on a damn site quicker at 23-25 k than a gtr with same chassis/engine at 33-64k. That might sound a little abrasive but i think i could be right.
Ed - your attempt to improve the braking on your car must be worth a go. For the money it is a bit of a no brainer. My only concern is your proposed usage. You say 2 - 3 trackdays.
The Ford Granny brakes were designed to stop nearly 2 tonnes of fully ladden motorway express traveling at 140mph (in Germany of course) so stopping a 1 tonne car should not be a problem. However, they were designed to stop the Panzer express once! Repeated track-day abuse will I fear soon throw up fade and heaven fobbid, boiled fluid!!!
For hard road use your sollution may be a good budget option. I'm not sure it will work on the track. Let us know your findings.
Paul.B
The Ford Granny brakes were designed to stop nearly 2 tonnes of fully ladden motorway express traveling at 140mph (in Germany of course) so stopping a 1 tonne car should not be a problem. However, they were designed to stop the Panzer express once! Repeated track-day abuse will I fear soon throw up fade and heaven fobbid, boiled fluid!!!
For hard road use your sollution may be a good budget option. I'm not sure it will work on the track. Let us know your findings.
Paul.B
yep
they're going to get a right royal caning, i'm using dot 5 fluid. I'll post my experience. To be honest i'm doing a lot a braking on the throttle, the engine braking is very impressive.
I did cadwell in a nicely sorted marcos mantula, only needed to use the brakes properly on one corner. A following car thought the brake lights had failed.
they're going to get a right royal caning, i'm using dot 5 fluid. I'll post my experience. To be honest i'm doing a lot a braking on the throttle, the engine braking is very impressive.
I did cadwell in a nicely sorted marcos mantula, only needed to use the brakes properly on one corner. A following car thought the brake lights had failed.
Right been busy with this and its not straight forward, is it ever!
The fronts are great, i've used later granny cosworth front calipers with earlier mk3 278mm 5 stud pattern discs. They need a single shimming washer to center to the disc but thats it. the wheel clearance is good they are an absolute bargain. The pads are huge, in fact about the same footprint as the ap's, aftermaket drilled/grooved discs are also available.
The rear is a different story as unlike on the front the cosworth calipers dont give any extra space for the bigger discs, they do accomodate the extra thickness but not the diameter. I realy dont like the punny standard handbrake caliper.
My old front calipers for the 260mm discs fit on the rear mountings they will need a spacer to align them with the disc, the original bolts are even the right length. But the overall diameter of the 273 diameter cossy disc is slightly to small and the wearing area to slightly to narrow. You could just remove some material from the pad to suit but its not the perfect solution.
I've been through the ford catalogue and the new mondeo mk3 uses 300mm discs all round. the mondeo fronts do fit over the big rear ultima hubs but the pcd is slightly different, i am told the centre hole is the right size so location is relatively straight forward.
The current plan is to adapt the mondeo disc and use the original standard granny front callipers with a seperate spot calliper on the spare lugs for the handbrake.
It might just work.
ed
The fronts are great, i've used later granny cosworth front calipers with earlier mk3 278mm 5 stud pattern discs. They need a single shimming washer to center to the disc but thats it. the wheel clearance is good they are an absolute bargain. The pads are huge, in fact about the same footprint as the ap's, aftermaket drilled/grooved discs are also available.
The rear is a different story as unlike on the front the cosworth calipers dont give any extra space for the bigger discs, they do accomodate the extra thickness but not the diameter. I realy dont like the punny standard handbrake caliper.
My old front calipers for the 260mm discs fit on the rear mountings they will need a spacer to align them with the disc, the original bolts are even the right length. But the overall diameter of the 273 diameter cossy disc is slightly to small and the wearing area to slightly to narrow. You could just remove some material from the pad to suit but its not the perfect solution.
I've been through the ford catalogue and the new mondeo mk3 uses 300mm discs all round. the mondeo fronts do fit over the big rear ultima hubs but the pcd is slightly different, i am told the centre hole is the right size so location is relatively straight forward.
The current plan is to adapt the mondeo disc and use the original standard granny front callipers with a seperate spot calliper on the spare lugs for the handbrake.
It might just work.
ed
rear brake news.
The 300mmx24mm mk3 mondeo disc will fit around the bearing housing on the rear with re drilled holes for the wheel studs. The center hole keeps everything concentric. The granada cosworth front caliper fits nice and snugg around it. The brake pad however slightly overlaps the edge of the disc. A small amount of pad modification is therefore necessary, the external radius of the pad is 276mm or there abouts and needs "flattening out" to 297mmish thats approx max 2mm of reprofile.
If you use the cosworth calipers the caliper mounting lugs need to be drilled slightly bigger for the thicker mounting bolts. You must also drill the bolt heads for the fitting of locking wire.
300mm rears may be overkill and the recent upgrade cosworth granada mk3 front end on my car uses 278mmx28 discs.
I can't have larger rears than fronts so the 300mm discs are to be reduced to 278 and used with my standard granada front calipers relocated to the rear.
The good news from all of this is the mondeo 300mm vented front discs fit around the rear bearing housing, with a lovely wide area of disc to squeeze.
In summary the upgraded fronts are 278dia from 260dia with much larger pads . and the the rear upgrade is from 253mm x 10mm rear discs with tiny ford rear pads to 278mm x 24mm vents with man sized pads.
The hand brake mech with a specific spot caliper is the next hurdle, hi spec are soon to release one (about 80 pounds per corner), willwood do one but can only deal with 22mm discs (40 pounds per corner), the mondeo fronts are 24mm. The gtr /ferrari brembo type are available at 180 pounds a corner or 437 left and 429 right from ferrari!
Hope all this is helpfull!
eddie
The 300mmx24mm mk3 mondeo disc will fit around the bearing housing on the rear with re drilled holes for the wheel studs. The center hole keeps everything concentric. The granada cosworth front caliper fits nice and snugg around it. The brake pad however slightly overlaps the edge of the disc. A small amount of pad modification is therefore necessary, the external radius of the pad is 276mm or there abouts and needs "flattening out" to 297mmish thats approx max 2mm of reprofile.
If you use the cosworth calipers the caliper mounting lugs need to be drilled slightly bigger for the thicker mounting bolts. You must also drill the bolt heads for the fitting of locking wire.
300mm rears may be overkill and the recent upgrade cosworth granada mk3 front end on my car uses 278mmx28 discs.
I can't have larger rears than fronts so the 300mm discs are to be reduced to 278 and used with my standard granada front calipers relocated to the rear.
The good news from all of this is the mondeo 300mm vented front discs fit around the rear bearing housing, with a lovely wide area of disc to squeeze.
In summary the upgraded fronts are 278dia from 260dia with much larger pads . and the the rear upgrade is from 253mm x 10mm rear discs with tiny ford rear pads to 278mm x 24mm vents with man sized pads.
The hand brake mech with a specific spot caliper is the next hurdle, hi spec are soon to release one (about 80 pounds per corner), willwood do one but can only deal with 22mm discs (40 pounds per corner), the mondeo fronts are 24mm. The gtr /ferrari brembo type are available at 180 pounds a corner or 437 left and 429 right from ferrari!
Hope all this is helpfull!
eddie
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