Unfinished Ultima for sale
Unfinished Ultima for sale
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Discussion

wannabe-racer

Original Poster:

139 posts

84 months

Monday 8th April 2019
quotequote all
Hi all,

You have probably seen it here on ph a 2014 Ultima for sale: https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

It has a turbo engine not sure what type or which manufacturer. Has anyone run a turbo engine in a ultima before? if so how easy is it to get air into the intercooler? And would this buy be a good idea to finish off?

Cheers
wr

BogBeast

1,144 posts

280 months

Monday 8th April 2019
quotequote all
Thats a lot of car for 30k

Looks like a Small block chevy rather than an LS. Which is fine...

I agree about the intercooler. I think its possibly in the most difficult place to get the air in and out without cutting big holes in the body.

If it was me I would look at swapping to charge cooler like a http://shearerfabrications.com/sf06-02008.html and holley hi-ram (with the top reversed, which might take bit of custom machine work) and running to radiators in the side pods or down the front somewhere.

Emissions for the IVA test might be interesting

Steve_D

13,799 posts

275 months

Monday 8th April 2019
quotequote all
Agreed a lot of car for the money....but....still a hell of a lot to do i.e. not 'a couple of weekends'.

The intercooler as shown is almost a waste of effort with the turbos drawing the inlet air from about the hottest place possible.

Many projects fail in two main categories.
  • lack of time.
  • lack of money
I think this is in the category.....'Bridge too Far' and if i'm reading the OP correctly will remain in that category.

If the OP has the knowledge, background and engineering skill so take this to completion I don't think he would be here asking the question.
The silly thing is a well sorted Chevy engine (in the 400 ponies bracket) will be more than enough for mere mortal drivers myself included.

If OP is still game then I will point out a few other things I can see that will need sorting.

Steve

eliot

11,927 posts

271 months

Tuesday 9th April 2019
quotequote all
Looks like a LS motor to me - mainly from the rounded roxker covers and equal spacing of inlet runners.

Edited by eliot on Tuesday 9th April 07:14

Boosted LS1

21,200 posts

277 months

Tuesday 9th April 2019
quotequote all
eliot said:
Looks like a LS motor to me - mainly from the rounded roxker covers and equal spacing of inlet runners.

Edited by eliot on Tuesday 9th April 07:14
It is an LS motor and has LS breather vents on the rocker covers. The end of the head looks a bit different so I suspect they may be aftermarket heads.

wannabe-racer

Original Poster:

139 posts

84 months

Tuesday 9th April 2019
quotequote all
Steve_D said:
Agreed a lot of car for the money....but....still a hell of a lot to do i.e. not 'a couple of weekends'.

The intercooler as shown is almost a waste of effort with the turbos drawing the inlet air from about the hottest place possible.

Many projects fail in two main categories.
  • lack of time.
  • lack of money
I think this is in the category.....'Bridge too Far' and if i'm reading the OP correctly will remain in that category.

If the OP has the knowledge, background and engineering skill so take this to completion I don't think he would be here asking the question.
The silly thing is a well sorted Chevy engine (in the 400 ponies bracket) will be more than enough for mere mortal drivers myself included.

If OP is still game then I will point out a few other things I can see that will need sorting.

Steve
Thanks all and Steve for your responses.

I have basic engine knowledge but very technical so taking something like this on would be a ramp for me - which is not a problem. I'm in no hurry and I want to learn. The question is, does it make sense? Many have said there is a lot of car for the money, then what I can't figure out is why sell so cheap. I'm concerned there could be cooling problems and that could be expensive to fix.

Steve_D

13,799 posts

275 months

Tuesday 9th April 2019
quotequote all
wannabe-racer said:
Steve_D said:
Agreed a lot of car for the money....but....still a hell of a lot to do i.e. not 'a couple of weekends'.

The intercooler as shown is almost a waste of effort with the turbos drawing the inlet air from about the hottest place possible.

Many projects fail in two main categories.
  • lack of time.
  • lack of money
I think this is in the category.....'Bridge too Far' and if i'm reading the OP correctly will remain in that category.

If the OP has the knowledge, background and engineering skill so take this to completion I don't think he would be here asking the question.
The silly thing is a well sorted Chevy engine (in the 400 ponies bracket) will be more than enough for mere mortal drivers myself included.

If OP is still game then I will point out a few other things I can see that will need sorting.

Steve
Thanks all and Steve for your responses.

I have basic engine knowledge but very technical so taking something like this on would be a ramp for me - which is not a problem. I'm in no hurry and I want to learn. The question is, does it make sense? Many have said there is a lot of car for the money, then what I can't figure out is why sell so cheap. I'm concerned there could be cooling problems and that could be expensive to fix.
I'm suspecting the builder has arrived at this point and realized he will not be able to keep the inlet air temp down with this setup and can't face the prospect of taking it all apart and starting again. This is down to a lack of planning or failing to realise in time that the setup will not work. Lack of planning is also evident in not having fitted the wiper motor before fitting the body tub and not fitting the side grills before fitting the side pods.

Starting again on the engine may be your best option. It is likely an LS1 or 3 which in standard form will be plenty scary. Alternatively find a turbo specialist and see if they can offer a solution. like fans on the intercooler and ducting cool air to the turbo from the front of the car rather than hot air in the engine bay.

Also consider the statement that the engine and box have been 'refreshed'. As neither of these are new you will most likely end up on a 'Q' plate.

Back to money. I built my car in 2004 (on a budget/second mortgage) and it still cost me £48k just in parts.

Your best option is to go look at it having left your rose tinted glasses at home. You are looking for build quality first and foremost.

Steve

BogBeast

1,144 posts

280 months

Tuesday 9th April 2019
quotequote all
Boosted LS1 said:
eliot said:
Looks like a LS motor to me - mainly from the rounded roxker covers and equal spacing of inlet runners.

Edited by eliot on Tuesday 9th April 07:14
It is an LS motor and has LS breather vents on the rocker covers. The end of the head looks a bit different so I suspect they may be aftermarket heads.
Doh. yup. And coil packs. Wonder what the ECU is...

BogBeast

1,144 posts

280 months

Tuesday 9th April 2019
quotequote all
I would also consider removing all of the intercooler gubbins, drop the boost pressure and then look at a water/meth solution

Boosted LS1

21,200 posts

277 months

Tuesday 9th April 2019
quotequote all
BogBeast said:
Boosted LS1 said:
eliot said:
Looks like a LS motor to me - mainly from the rounded roxker covers and equal spacing of inlet runners.

Edited by eliot on Tuesday 9th April 07:14
It is an LS motor and has LS breather vents on the rocker covers. The end of the head looks a bit different so I suspect they may be aftermarket heads.
Doh. yup. And coil packs. Wonder what the ECU is...
It's running with a factory ecu/pcm.


Boosted LS1

21,200 posts

277 months

Tuesday 9th April 2019
quotequote all
BogBeast said:
I would also consider removing all of the intercooler gubbins, drop the boost pressure and then look at a water/meth solution
I was thinking the same. A simple water injection install would work wonders. On low boost that engine's capable of almost 600 hp.

deadscoob

2,264 posts

277 months

Tuesday 9th April 2019
quotequote all
I think Steve has mentioned the 2 main reasons it’s cheap - as it stands it’ll get a q plate, plus the install won’t work well. Then add in some of the budget components used and you end up with a difficult to sell partial completed car.
However.....
Buy a crate ls3, sell existing engine, it’s possibly a viable project if the main bits have been done right

BogBeast

1,144 posts

280 months

Tuesday 9th April 2019
quotequote all
deadscoob said:
... sell existing engine....
to me smile

No problem putting in my Sport, wouldn't need any of that cat rubbish.... smile

eliot

11,927 posts

271 months

Wednesday 10th April 2019
quotequote all
It being on a Q plate isn’t ideal, but it wont affect how it looks or performs - seems like a cheap way into a nice car. I’m sitting here trying to do the man maths and what bs I need to explain to the wife...
Turbo v8 and intercoolers is right up my street.

wannabe-racer

Original Poster:

139 posts

84 months

Wednesday 10th April 2019
quotequote all
So depending how the build looks, quality etc. After selling the turbo engine for a few grand it might make sense financially.

thebraketester

15,134 posts

155 months

Wednesday 10th April 2019
quotequote all
It's got a fairly large roof scoop so I would expect that it could be made to work as stands with appropriate ducting to get cool air to the IC.... the question would be to as how much boost it could comfortably run without running into heat soak issues.

BogBeast

1,144 posts

280 months

Wednesday 10th April 2019
quotequote all
thebraketester said:
It's got a fairly large roof scoop so I would expect that it could be made to work as stands with appropriate ducting to get cool air to the IC.... the question would be to as how much boost it could comfortably run without running into heat soak issues.
That rear clip looks standard to me (again, stand to be corrected...) Traditionally the top scoop does not collect much air as, IIRC, its in a low-pressure zone. I have seen some Ultimas with the scoop extended over the roof to collect air from the top of the screen area. I don't know how effective that would be. I guess you then could run a shroud and ducting to the extended scoop.. again not sure how effective that would be... I would think it would be easier to put a charge cooler in...

Racingroj

488 posts

180 months

Wednesday 10th April 2019
quotequote all
You need to ask yourself what do you want out of an Ultima!
To add to your thoughts I would add the following.
1. You really don’t want a Q plate for the effect it will have on any future resale price.
2. As Steve D says 400hp with the high torque of a Chevy V8 is more than enough to scare you silly. Higher bhp and torque are for bragging rights. You can’t properly use high bhp and torque in 4th gear and higher.
3. Deviating from a standard LS engine also affects the resale price. It also brings its own ongoing running problems even if you really know what you are doing.
4. I would sell the engine and invest in an LS motor. There are 3 worth considering in my opinion depending on your budget - LS3, LS7 (complete with dry sump, my favourite) and the LSA.
5. As has been said the build quality is the most important thing to check.
6. Do a spread sheet of your costs to finish the project so you won’t get a shock. You will be surprised how it adds up.
Hope this helps.

eliot

11,927 posts

271 months

Wednesday 10th April 2019
quotequote all
Racingroj said:
3. Deviating from a standard LS engine also affects the resale price. It also brings its own ongoing running problems even if you really know what you are doing.
4. I would sell the engine and invest in an LS motor. .
It’s already got an LS motor - probably an LS1 based on the 5.7 capacity.

deadscoob

2,264 posts

277 months

Wednesday 10th April 2019
quotequote all
I think he means new so it’s not on a q plate