Injection project results so far
Discussion
I collected my Can-am from Dave Walker at Emerald on tuesday and am pleased to say that all the hard work seems to be worth it . There is a massive improvement to the general starting and running of the engine it ticks over nice does not stall under braking and is smoother all the way up to the rev limit the torque seems to come in much earlier there is 330 pounds/feet from 2000rpm rising to a max of 371p/f at 4500rpm and then drops to 290p/f at 6500 max bhp is 368 at 6002 rpm . the other big differance is how cool the engine is it runs about 80 on the road rising to 90 in traffic but the fans pull it down quite quickly was not expecting that.there is still work to be done would like to see abit more power but so far so good . Simon .
Hello Simon,I saw your car at Mr.Walkers establishment a few weeks ago by chance whilst visiting Dave to disscus the suitability of fitting an Emerald E.C.U. in my current project.Can you give me an overall ya or na at this early stage as to your satisfaction with the finished article?
Hi guys my engine is a 1980 4 bolt truck block with rpm performer heads a comp cams 12-254-3 cam it has a victor jnr intake manifold and runs hydrolic lifters we think there is more power to come either the auto-nomics throttle body or the plenum on top of it is starving the engine of air at the top end and Dave has new software coming which should give us a bit more torque.pretty pleased so far Dave is the man i am sure of it , its the first ultima hes done so i think he will find more power only time will tell . have to admit car felt very quick coming home !!!!! simon
>> Edited by tuxman on Wednesday 19th April 22:50
>> Edited by tuxman on Wednesday 19th April 22:50
I would say air resistriction is the most likely cause. If you calculate the surface area of the four throttle body ports I think it comes out more than the area of your intake setup. Really the intake ducting needs to be notably bigger, special to account for any bends. Also is the filter rated for the HP you should be generating, with the Victor Jnr intake that should be building top end power not dropping off the way it looks like.
tuxman said:
Hi guys my engine is a 1980 4 bolt truck block with rpm performer heads a comp cams 12-254-3 cam it has a victor jnr intake manifold and runs hydrolic lifters we think there is more power to come either the auto-nomics throttle body or the plenum on top of it is starving the engine of air at the top end and Dave has new software coming which should give us a bit more torque.pretty pleased so far Dave is the man i am sure of it , its the first ultima hes done so i think he will find more power only time will tell . have to admit car felt very quick coming home !!!!! simon
>> Edited by tuxman on Wednesday 19th April 22:50
Nice one!
Yours is the first Ultima he's setup, but not the first that he's had up there
Dave is a good man with EFi, but by his own admission, carb'd chevy's are a mystery to him!
He drove/tested my GTR for what turned out to be the last edition of CCC. As far as I know, my GTR still holds the power record on his r/road
Glad you're getting some great results!
Hi Stig yes you are right i have the last issue of ccc on the wall with a picture of your GTR on display !!! he was not interested in setting up my carbs but when i mentioned EFI he was very keen i would have been in real trouble without all his help !! phil filter is rated to 550 bhp so i guess the problem must be to do with the auto-nomics plenum am going to design my own plenum for the top that is much larger hopefully this will give more power am going back for a re-map in a month so it will be a interesting comparison. simon .
Is the emerald map based and can you do datalogging?
If so, simply hook the lapdog up and go for a blast. On your datalog, look for the WOT runs - you should see ~97kpa in a flat line all the way up the rev range. If you see it tapering down at high rpm, it proves your inlet is the restriction. I trust dave would of spotted this though. Done a similar excercise on 5L tvr and saw a slight drop of (few kpa) at the top-end.
Ive probably posted this before, but the info I have on that throttle body is here: www.mez.co.uk/turbo9.html
>> Edited by eliot on Thursday 20th April 19:20
If so, simply hook the lapdog up and go for a blast. On your datalog, look for the WOT runs - you should see ~97kpa in a flat line all the way up the rev range. If you see it tapering down at high rpm, it proves your inlet is the restriction. I trust dave would of spotted this though. Done a similar excercise on 5L tvr and saw a slight drop of (few kpa) at the top-end.
Ive probably posted this before, but the info I have on that throttle body is here: www.mez.co.uk/turbo9.html
>> Edited by eliot on Thursday 20th April 19:20
Good to hear you have a succes with the EFI Simon.
My own Megasquirt experience has given similar improvements to starting & idling and has eliminated stall under braking of course. I've also found it cooling a bit better but I think that is because new manifold has rear water ports which I have plumbed to bleed air locks from back of heads. Have not tweaked map properly yet so am running a bit on the rich side especially on acceleration to stay safe. Power deliver feels quite similar to carb, hopefully some more to come. Probably needs to go on rolling road to do this properly.
My own Megasquirt experience has given similar improvements to starting & idling and has eliminated stall under braking of course. I've also found it cooling a bit better but I think that is because new manifold has rear water ports which I have plumbed to bleed air locks from back of heads. Have not tweaked map properly yet so am running a bit on the rich side especially on acceleration to stay safe. Power deliver feels quite similar to carb, hopefully some more to come. Probably needs to go on rolling road to do this properly.
Been reading up on Dave's system M3DK its got some interesting stuff you get a great operating manual with it and a disc ,we are going to load it on to dawn's laptop so we can have alook at the maps that are on it at the moment ,we have a bit of rough area between 2000 and 2500 on very light throttle don,t know why but it is pretty easy to change map will be very interesting to tweek it abit and see if we can improve it.simon
Hi,
Good to meet you at stoneleigh on Sunday. We were chatting about the throttle sizes, I just checked my site again and I said it was 33mm - so unless your's was a different type with bigger bores, I would say re-check it. Mine definately wasn't 38mm, because I remember taking it out about 1mm per pass - and I certainly didnt make two passes.
(Note, one of the photo's on my site, isn't a photo of my TB - which has two reducers fitted to make it work on rover v8's)
>> Edited by eliot on Monday 1st May 18:17
>> Edited by eliot on Monday 1st May 18:23
Good to meet you at stoneleigh on Sunday. We were chatting about the throttle sizes, I just checked my site again and I said it was 33mm - so unless your's was a different type with bigger bores, I would say re-check it. Mine definately wasn't 38mm, because I remember taking it out about 1mm per pass - and I certainly didnt make two passes.
(Note, one of the photo's on my site, isn't a photo of my TB - which has two reducers fitted to make it work on rover v8's)
>> Edited by eliot on Monday 1st May 18:17
>> Edited by eliot on Monday 1st May 18:23
Download CARB.EXE from http://home.mchsi.com/~jroal/slist.ht
And stick in your details (i put 383, 7krpm) gives 4x39mm for 95% ve - now dont rely on this tool 100% because whenever I look into this subject, you seem to end up with wild variations. But a 900 cfm Holley has 4x44mm which carb.exe broadly agrees with.
And stick in your details (i put 383, 7krpm) gives 4x39mm for 95% ve - now dont rely on this tool 100% because whenever I look into this subject, you seem to end up with wild variations. But a 900 cfm Holley has 4x44mm which carb.exe broadly agrees with.
pb3 said:
Ok, looks like I will be getting mine bored out then. Eliot how did you do yours, some fancy kit that you have around your workshop I guess; an engineering firm for me I thinks!
Phil, What's the spec of your engine? are you seeing similar problems in the high rpm areas ? - if your'e both seeing similar problems, then it's worth boring them out.
Added:
Another thing to check on yours Simon, that wouldn't affect Phils is your spark dwell settings (assuming you are controlling Dwell in the ECU) - A single coils gets pretty busy over 5500rpm.
For both of you, the progressive throttle mod will help because it gets rid of the very on/off nature - which must be a nightmare on your powerful engines - although yours(Simons) will require a complete re-map because it depends on the throttle position alone.
>> Edited by eliot on Tuesday 2nd May 06:59
Just saw this posted on v8 owners forum, Looks like lance has incorporated thread about throttle body sizing into the manual:
www.megamanual.com/v22manual/minj.htm#throttle
www.megamanual.com/v22manual/minj.htm#throttle
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