Ultima build questions (maybe not the usual...)
Discussion
I'm new here 
I love the Ultima and I think I want one. I do not want to build it. I'm in the US.
I have a few questions that maybe current owners can answer:
1. Noise. If you wanted the quietest car, what engine/special construction would you use? I'm all for speed but I want the car for the road - to drive as often as possible and do not want to wake the neighbors
2. Rollbars. Are there alternate rollbars for the Can-am? Could you post a picture? To me the single hump, straight rollbar spells kit car/race machine to me. It's just not my cup of tea. Are there alternate versions that are 2 humps with a back? I realize that if an alternate one were used, the soft top would not fit but that part, I don't mind adapting or designing a completely new top.
3. Windows. Has anyone attempted making rolling windows? I'm not sure if this is possible without completely redesigning the door... and even then, it looks like the window would have to be reduced to 2/3 of the size and maybe only roll half way down. All I'm looking for really is ventilation so maybe there's a better way to deal with this such as better air con or ports into the cabin.
4. Intake. I'm aware of the Reverie carbon fiber side intake
http://reverie.ltd.uk/shop/products.p
Are there others?
5. Lights. Are there alternate front light assemblies? Can you post some pictures? I do like the standard ones but I don't like the pictures I've seen of them fogging up on the inside. Are there other housings that are less conducive to this?
6. Wings. I don't like the carbon wing. Have people fabricated wings that fit with the car style? Can you post pictures?
7. Interiors... I'd like to see a thread dedicated to interiors. This is where most of my custom work would be done. To be honest, I don't like the standard interior at all. If I get the car, the profiling of the dash will be completely changed, no Al panels would show - they'd all be carpet and fabric. The seats would be two tone, possibly with piping and the backs would be mesh or completely upholstered, not left bare mold. I've seen some customization but none to the level I'm looking for.... although the almost standard interior that Dave has minimal but fitting for the car:
www.v8yes.co.uk
8. Seats. What other seats fit without too much trouble?
9. Color. I don't like any of the stock colors (well maybe black, red, yellow). Aside from the gun metal GTR with the brown interior, does anyone have a custom color that they'd like to share?
10. Vents. How come few people knock out the front brake vents? It looks like the car isn't finished. I would definitely have it done on mine unless there is a strong reason not to?
I love the Ultima and I think I want one. I do not want to build it. I'm in the US.
I have a few questions that maybe current owners can answer:
1. Noise. If you wanted the quietest car, what engine/special construction would you use? I'm all for speed but I want the car for the road - to drive as often as possible and do not want to wake the neighbors
2. Rollbars. Are there alternate rollbars for the Can-am? Could you post a picture? To me the single hump, straight rollbar spells kit car/race machine to me. It's just not my cup of tea. Are there alternate versions that are 2 humps with a back? I realize that if an alternate one were used, the soft top would not fit but that part, I don't mind adapting or designing a completely new top.
3. Windows. Has anyone attempted making rolling windows? I'm not sure if this is possible without completely redesigning the door... and even then, it looks like the window would have to be reduced to 2/3 of the size and maybe only roll half way down. All I'm looking for really is ventilation so maybe there's a better way to deal with this such as better air con or ports into the cabin.
4. Intake. I'm aware of the Reverie carbon fiber side intake
http://reverie.ltd.uk/shop/products.p
Are there others?
5. Lights. Are there alternate front light assemblies? Can you post some pictures? I do like the standard ones but I don't like the pictures I've seen of them fogging up on the inside. Are there other housings that are less conducive to this?
6. Wings. I don't like the carbon wing. Have people fabricated wings that fit with the car style? Can you post pictures?
7. Interiors... I'd like to see a thread dedicated to interiors. This is where most of my custom work would be done. To be honest, I don't like the standard interior at all. If I get the car, the profiling of the dash will be completely changed, no Al panels would show - they'd all be carpet and fabric. The seats would be two tone, possibly with piping and the backs would be mesh or completely upholstered, not left bare mold. I've seen some customization but none to the level I'm looking for.... although the almost standard interior that Dave has minimal but fitting for the car:
www.v8yes.co.uk
8. Seats. What other seats fit without too much trouble?
9. Color. I don't like any of the stock colors (well maybe black, red, yellow). Aside from the gun metal GTR with the brown interior, does anyone have a custom color that they'd like to share?
10. Vents. How come few people knock out the front brake vents? It looks like the car isn't finished. I would definitely have it done on mine unless there is a strong reason not to?
1. Noise - I did hot rod power tour in a Jeff Schwartz's LS6 engined GTR this year - 4200 miles in 9 days. He only has carpet on the Firewall and insulation betwen the floor panels and his can was entirely reasonable. I've fitted Dynamat to min all round. Before you say you dont want a noisey car - go for a ride in one, you'll probably change your mind.
2. Rollbars - you'd have to modify that yourself.
3. Windows - rolling windows would be a HUGE task. They have been made removable - see kwright's photos on the USA club website - www.markkoch.net/ultima/
4. Intake - These are the only other ones I have seen - dont know if they are commercially available www.robidaconcepts.com/albums/album_image/1923548/597935.htm
5. Lights - Are there alternate front light assemblies? - Dunno
6. Wings - The factory one is VERY nice - have you seen one up close.
7. Interiors - check all the sites in the Gallery and the Builders digest sticky threads.
8. Seats - search this - it has been discussed - the factory seats are very good though.
9. Color - there are some silver ones.
10. Vents. How come few people knock out the front brake vents? the ones on the very from come knocked out already - or do you mean the ones in the side of the car.
Have you ever seen an Ultima in the flesh? I would thoroughly recommend a trip to the factory .... I flew over from Hong Kong before I placed my order and it will change your perspective completely - especially if you have never been for a ride in one. After a ride in one and seeing the factory your priorities will change.
Edited by crafty on Monday 7th August 06:45
1. Noise
Yeah, really, I don't like what I've heard. I'm atypical. I haven't heard any Ultima in person - this is true. However, I know that I don't like loud sports cars. It turns me off. Untamed Chevy small blocks sound obnoxious to me
3. Windows
Huge task? I don't know. If the geometry is right, it seems possible to me. I don't know, it's one of those custom pieces that I know I could do without a garage.. or even without disturbing my running car (just buy a new doorpanel to destroy/rebuild with an electric rolling mechanism). I don't doubt that it would be a challenge.
4. Intake
Thanks for the link. Gives me a few ideas. The ReVerie one is nice but too expensive. If I used CF, I'd mold them myself.
5. Lights - Are there alternate front light assemblies? - Dunno
6. Wings
Oh, I know the factory one is great. I don't like the looks of it. It says 'track car' to me and doesn't fit with the rest of the car styling. I would want one that is more like the old Sports model or if not actually connected, styled to match the car. For me it would be just for looks. I ain't going that fast to require gobs of downforce... and even if I did, I think I'd consider underbody work instead.
7. Interiors
Yep, I've been checking for years and still haven't seen anything to my liking. But that's ok. That's where I'll have a bit of fun.
8. Seats
I guess I'd have to upholster the factory seats. They are too raw for me.
9. Color
Thinking metallic (but not silver). The gun metal one is nice. Of course I've played around in photoshop to simulate the colors but it's hard to envision metallics. I thinking maybe dark metallic blue. I love metallic orange but that's been overplayed in the market...
10. Vents.
Yeah, the ones behind the front tires. I saw a few pictures with them knocked out with black inserts but that was a long time ago. I thought the car looked better that way.
>Have you ever seen an Ultima in the flesh?
No I haven't... b/c if I do, I know it's a done deal. When I'm ready, I'll go to the factory or a local builder. If there was a canam forsale in the US right now, I'd probably buy it and then customize it but unfortunately, I don't think there are very many here.
Yeah, really, I don't like what I've heard. I'm atypical. I haven't heard any Ultima in person - this is true. However, I know that I don't like loud sports cars. It turns me off. Untamed Chevy small blocks sound obnoxious to me
3. Windows
Huge task? I don't know. If the geometry is right, it seems possible to me. I don't know, it's one of those custom pieces that I know I could do without a garage.. or even without disturbing my running car (just buy a new doorpanel to destroy/rebuild with an electric rolling mechanism). I don't doubt that it would be a challenge.
4. Intake
Thanks for the link. Gives me a few ideas. The ReVerie one is nice but too expensive. If I used CF, I'd mold them myself.
5. Lights - Are there alternate front light assemblies? - Dunno
6. Wings
Oh, I know the factory one is great. I don't like the looks of it. It says 'track car' to me and doesn't fit with the rest of the car styling. I would want one that is more like the old Sports model or if not actually connected, styled to match the car. For me it would be just for looks. I ain't going that fast to require gobs of downforce... and even if I did, I think I'd consider underbody work instead.
7. Interiors
Yep, I've been checking for years and still haven't seen anything to my liking. But that's ok. That's where I'll have a bit of fun.
8. Seats
I guess I'd have to upholster the factory seats. They are too raw for me.
9. Color
Thinking metallic (but not silver). The gun metal one is nice. Of course I've played around in photoshop to simulate the colors but it's hard to envision metallics. I thinking maybe dark metallic blue. I love metallic orange but that's been overplayed in the market...
10. Vents.
Yeah, the ones behind the front tires. I saw a few pictures with them knocked out with black inserts but that was a long time ago. I thought the car looked better that way.
>Have you ever seen an Ultima in the flesh?
No I haven't... b/c if I do, I know it's a done deal
. When I'm ready, I'll go to the factory or a local builder. If there was a canam forsale in the US right now, I'd probably buy it and then customize it but unfortunately, I don't think there are very many here.crater said:
1. Noise
Yeah, really, I don't like what I've heard. I'm atypical. I haven't heard any Ultima in person - this is true. However, I know that I don't like loud sports cars. It turns me off. Untamed Chevy small blocks sound obnoxious to me
Yeah, really, I don't like what I've heard. I'm atypical. I haven't heard any Ultima in person - this is true. However, I know that I don't like loud sports cars. It turns me off. Untamed Chevy small blocks sound obnoxious to me
I prefer the sound of a single exhaust.... or at least a balance tube with twins.
[quote=crater]
3. Windows
I am sure it could be done but I don't think they would go all the way down. I believe the window is taller than the door.
4. Intake
I started making my own side pods and completed one. I sent it off to another builder to look into making the mirror image. Not sure what if anything he as done with it. If you are interested I could probable get him to sent it to you.
9. Color
Just get the gel coat in what ever color is closest to what you want and then have the car painted. I am going pearl blue, so I got the car in blue gel coat. This way when the paint chips the gel coat will not stand out so bad.
10. Vents.
The factory used to sell a kit, but no longer do. Cuting them out is not that difficult and only requires minor fiberglass work. www.markkoch.net/canam_Time_Line_7.asp?size=FULL
quote]
mark
3. Windows
I am sure it could be done but I don't think they would go all the way down. I believe the window is taller than the door.
4. Intake
I started making my own side pods and completed one. I sent it off to another builder to look into making the mirror image. Not sure what if anything he as done with it. If you are interested I could probable get him to sent it to you.
9. Color
Just get the gel coat in what ever color is closest to what you want and then have the car painted. I am going pearl blue, so I got the car in blue gel coat. This way when the paint chips the gel coat will not stand out so bad.
10. Vents.
The factory used to sell a kit, but no longer do. Cuting them out is not that difficult and only requires minor fiberglass work. www.markkoch.net/canam_Time_Line_7.asp?size=FULL
quote]
mark
steve_d said:
Sad as it may be I don't think an Ultima is for you.
The current road going Ultima has its roots firmly planted in a race track and as such does not know the meaning of quiet, comfort, electric windows, carpet, etc.
Steve
The current road going Ultima has its roots firmly planted in a race track and as such does not know the meaning of quiet, comfort, electric windows, carpet, etc.
Steve
Speak for youself Steve!
Though it does sound as if the Ultima is a bit too raw, even in 'tame' form for crater.
crater said:
>Have you ever seen an Ultima in the flesh?
No I haven't... b/c if I do, I know it's a done deal
. When I'm ready, I'll go to the factory or a local builder. If there was a canam forsale in the US right now, I'd probably buy it and then customize it but unfortunately, I don't think there are very many here.You should come to the US Ultima Gathering next month near Chicago!
www.markkoch.net/ultima/2006ClubMeet.asp
It would be a great chance to see the car in person. Hear what it sounds like on the road (from in the car) and when they are driving around you. I went last year and I must say I AM HOOKED! I just need to save my $$ for a kit. The guys are great and very friendly. They will answer tons of questions and show you anything they can. It is a worthwhile trip if you are seriously considering one. I highly recommend it.
mkoch1 said:
[quote=crater]
9. Color
Just get the gel coat in what ever color is closest to what you want and then have the car painted. I am going pearl blue, so I got the car in blue gel coat. This way when the paint chips the gel coat will not stand out so bad.
quote]
mark
9. Color
Just get the gel coat in what ever color is closest to what you want and then have the car painted. I am going pearl blue, so I got the car in blue gel coat. This way when the paint chips the gel coat will not stand out so bad.
quote]
mark
You will see the chips unless you use blue primer! I had my yellow GTR painted yellow but the grey primer used really shows up when the paint is chipped!
Mike
GTRMikie said:
mkoch1 said:
[quote=crater]
9. Color
Just get the gel coat in what ever color is closest to what you want and then have the car painted. I am going pearl blue, so I got the car in blue gel coat. This way when the paint chips the gel coat will not stand out so bad.
quote]
mark
9. Color
Just get the gel coat in what ever color is closest to what you want and then have the car painted. I am going pearl blue, so I got the car in blue gel coat. This way when the paint chips the gel coat will not stand out so bad.
quote]
mark
You will see the chips unless you use blue primer! I had my yellow GTR painted yellow but the grey primer used really shows up when the paint is chipped!
Mike
you just need deeper chips that go through the primer
mark
eliot
I'm asking about things that I don't like because I want to change them and everything seems like it's possible to change. While many are into customizing the engine and some of the interior, I've listed most of the things that I would like to concentrate on. Nothing that I'd do to the car would compromise it's performance. And everything is geared towards aesthetics. At the very least I think people would look at the result and think, wow, an Ultima can look like that?
mkoch1
Thanks for the info.
steve_d
The Ultima is pretty much it for me. It's the best looking customizable car in its class that I know of. I don't care if it has it's roots in the track. Ferraris are rooted on the track too. Take the Challenge vs. the regular Modena... one is extremely obnoxious and the other is actually a nice road car. You just haven't seen the tame form of the Ultima yet
HuggerZ
I don't know if I can make it to Chicago. I would love to though. I'm already hooked.
I'm asking about things that I don't like because I want to change them and everything seems like it's possible to change. While many are into customizing the engine and some of the interior, I've listed most of the things that I would like to concentrate on. Nothing that I'd do to the car would compromise it's performance. And everything is geared towards aesthetics. At the very least I think people would look at the result and think, wow, an Ultima can look like that?
mkoch1
Thanks for the info.
steve_d
The Ultima is pretty much it for me. It's the best looking customizable car in its class that I know of. I don't care if it has it's roots in the track. Ferraris are rooted on the track too. Take the Challenge vs. the regular Modena... one is extremely obnoxious and the other is actually a nice road car. You just haven't seen the tame form of the Ultima yet
HuggerZ
I don't know if I can make it to Chicago. I would love to though. I'm already hooked.
Hi Crater,
Welcome to the Ultima forum on PistonHeads. Here, and on the US Ultima Club site, you will find some very experienced builders...many having built multiple Ultima cars. I have just started building again (for the third time) since taking delivery a year ago, so I am constantly discovering and re-thinking the design as I go.
Yes, the GTR and CANAM are both "basic" cars. But, as you have stated, the reason for this is based on the factory's desire to deliver a fantastic road/track car. Ultima cars are record-setting performers, as intended by the factory. They are designed to be driven to the road course on street tires, eat up anything on the track, and drive out the exit of the facility to the local gas station.
That said, you can look at Ultima cars as blank slates. The truth is, it's all about time and money. The more of each you are prepared to invest, the more is possible.
You could install a very quiet exhaust system with cats and an OBD-II computer...just like any modern V8; i.e. a new CTS-V is a quiet car until you step on the "loud" peddle.
You could design a plush interior, short of expanding interior space. You can easily add electronic components; stereo, nav system, built-in rad/laz detector/scrambler, cameras, turn signal system, lighting logic and controls...let your imagination roam.
You could cut the chassis and modify a roll bar while still maintaining a rigid frame. Just use an FEA program to design the node. But, remember...there are no air bags in the factory design and it's a very small, light car. A nice, big roll-bar may not be so unpleasing if a huge 4x4 doesn't see your 42-and-one-eighth-inch tall, 13-foot-one-and-a-half-inch long car.
On the wing, you can choose anything that will mount to the chassis...that is, if you want to BUY a wing. Sounds like you may want to have one made to suit your taste. Check out Jeff Schwartz's pages on his customize installation.
Of course, moulded seats will be the ultimate in comfort...your choice of finish.
On the vents, the folks here will chime in if otherwise, but there are a couple of reasons they don't get punched out; the structural integrety of the GRP is compromised (without the now-unavailable factory components), and, if used to actually vent the wheel well, makes a real mess on the side of the car due to road grime.
I guess the money/time paradigm holds true for just about all such projects...from car-building to high-rise buildings. Your personal design and fabrication skills will determine the amount of out-sourcing ($$$,$$$).
I have to agree about the looks of the car. It's simply amazing that this car can be street-legal. Unadorned in its raw fashion, its form follows function to a severe extent. The result is unmatched performance. Soften it as you will, and you will still have a stunning auto with amazing performance.
Welcome to the Ultima forum on PistonHeads. Here, and on the US Ultima Club site, you will find some very experienced builders...many having built multiple Ultima cars. I have just started building again (for the third time) since taking delivery a year ago, so I am constantly discovering and re-thinking the design as I go.
Yes, the GTR and CANAM are both "basic" cars. But, as you have stated, the reason for this is based on the factory's desire to deliver a fantastic road/track car. Ultima cars are record-setting performers, as intended by the factory. They are designed to be driven to the road course on street tires, eat up anything on the track, and drive out the exit of the facility to the local gas station.
That said, you can look at Ultima cars as blank slates. The truth is, it's all about time and money. The more of each you are prepared to invest, the more is possible.
You could install a very quiet exhaust system with cats and an OBD-II computer...just like any modern V8; i.e. a new CTS-V is a quiet car until you step on the "loud" peddle.
You could design a plush interior, short of expanding interior space. You can easily add electronic components; stereo, nav system, built-in rad/laz detector/scrambler, cameras, turn signal system, lighting logic and controls...let your imagination roam.
You could cut the chassis and modify a roll bar while still maintaining a rigid frame. Just use an FEA program to design the node. But, remember...there are no air bags in the factory design and it's a very small, light car. A nice, big roll-bar may not be so unpleasing if a huge 4x4 doesn't see your 42-and-one-eighth-inch tall, 13-foot-one-and-a-half-inch long car.
On the wing, you can choose anything that will mount to the chassis...that is, if you want to BUY a wing. Sounds like you may want to have one made to suit your taste. Check out Jeff Schwartz's pages on his customize installation.
Of course, moulded seats will be the ultimate in comfort...your choice of finish.
On the vents, the folks here will chime in if otherwise, but there are a couple of reasons they don't get punched out; the structural integrety of the GRP is compromised (without the now-unavailable factory components), and, if used to actually vent the wheel well, makes a real mess on the side of the car due to road grime.
I guess the money/time paradigm holds true for just about all such projects...from car-building to high-rise buildings. Your personal design and fabrication skills will determine the amount of out-sourcing ($$$,$$$).
I have to agree about the looks of the car. It's simply amazing that this car can be street-legal. Unadorned in its raw fashion, its form follows function to a severe extent. The result is unmatched performance. Soften it as you will, and you will still have a stunning auto with amazing performance.
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