Nelson Racing’s 1,800HP Mosler MT900S

[mohrt]

OK, this is just a sick setup.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/supercars/nelso...

I recall Nelson Racing putting together a ridiculous engine for an Ultima owner, who was that and what was the result?

[Boosted LS1]

How can you get 1800 hp from 13 psi boost? Stock engine is 400 hp/ish, are the revving to 12'000 rpm? What is the dual fuel, lpg? I'd say the 1800 hp is from a much higher boost level and I'd like to see how long it could sustain full boost

Is there any detailed info?

Boosted.

[eliot]

"The NRE Mosler 900 uses dual fuel technology, driving up to 1150 HP on 91 octane and automatically switching fuel systems above 13 PSI of boost which enables over 1800 HP. 1710 ft lbs of torque. Cockpit controlled power at a touch of a button from 600 to 1800hp"

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/pix-rides-mosle...

Edited by eliot on Thursday 10th January 23:18

[mohrt]

Here is the Ultima they put an engine in:

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/pix-rides-ultim...

and video:

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/videos/NRETV427...

Edited by mohrt on Thursday 10th January 23:55

[chuntington101]

i think the Mosler engine is a LSX unit. Nelson racing is now building these engines as well as the SBC power plants. there dual fuel system is also used on the Ultima as shown above.

also i learnt the other day the Motec has the ability to run uypto 10 boost maps. with the right boost in each gear you could run these stupid powerfull engine and still put the power down!

Chris.

[Boosted LS1]

^ Yes, one engine is a sbc (ultima) and the other is an lsx (mosler). Only way I can imagine them to get that power is two effing huge turbo's at the 13 psi for massive flow but it's almost 5 times the power of a stock engine so needs loads of air. I know lpg has better knock resistance as was going to do this myself 5 years ago but I was let down on the dual fuel injectors. They were proven but production never seemed to happen. I Planned to run an engine built on 7:1 c/r but under 15 psi boost felt the compression would be nearer 13:1 using lpg. This was a 5.7 lsx. Despite all that I never hoped for more then 700 hp tops using a pair of modest tubbies

[chuntington101]

Boosted LS1 said:

^ Yes, one engine is a sbc (ultima) and the other is an lsx (mosler). Only way I can imagine them to get that power is two effing huge turbo's at the 13 psi for massive flow but it's almost 5 times the power of a stock engine so needs loads of air. I know lpg has better knock resistance as was going to do this myself 5 years ago but I was let down on the dual fuel injectors. They were proven but production never seemed to happen. I Planned to run an engine built on 7:1 c/r but under 15 psi boost felt the compression would be nearer 13:1 using lpg. This was a 5.7 lsx. Despite all that I never hoped for more then 700 hp tops using a pair of modest tubbies

my guess is something like T76's or even T88s. i know for thier 2000+bhp drag engines (still only 454 SBC or LSX) they are running the T88's. the normal turbos are T72s and a pair can flow over 1600bhp.from what i have heard the dual fuel system runs 8 injectors for normal fuel and another bank of larger (160lbs i think) for the race fuel. would love to know how the swtich over id, be it boost or throttle position or what...

Chris.

[Boosted LS1]

^ Chris, do you happen to know what the dual fuel is? Is it lpg or something else.

[actuary]

Whoa. These are big bhp numbers. But do these turbo set ups provide controllable power or just wheelspin ? In a race around the top gear track, my money would be on the factory GTR720 against the hyperbhp Mosler. Does anyone have a 1/4 mile time ? Jeff S has a massively fast GTR but seemed to be struggling to get traction (albeit on a relatively rough road). There doesn't seem to be a standard head to head comparison anywhere.

This does raise a question. If you want a very VERY fast GTR, what engine do you go for ? I have two friends currently building a GTR who are after more bhp than I currently have. Ignoring the answer of "you don't need more than 640bhp", what engine is the best to go for ? Something driveable, but fiercely accelerative and at the same time able to put that power down. And also affordable, but this is a lesser consideration. It seems to be that there are three options :

a) Ultimate 800 bhp SBC from Amerspeed. My engine gives every single one of the bhp quoted by Amerspeed and it is totally reliable (so far). Apart from a lumpy start up when cold, it is amazing power for low money (£ 10,000 in my case). This has my vote so far for customers after big power (as my two friends are). Mine is happy at 2000 rpm or 7500 rpm, but the Ultimate 800 engine may be less low speed friendly than my 427 (non 18 degree) engine, valve overlap and all that.

b) LS7 supercharged. More expensive (say double the cost, everything considered) but it sounds very useable and more reliable. Starts like a BMW and smooth as silk. Only 20% on the total build cost. A close second.

c) Jeff's turbo engines. He's led by example, tens of thousand of miles of 1000 bhp without any issues. Car shows, track days, 0 to 200 to 0 challenges. If I want more than 800 bhp, I would seriously consider Jeff, but I would like a run in one of his cars to see if the power is delivered progessively.

So has anyone out there got long term, on the road, experience of something over 700bhp ? If so, please get off the fence and post a reply.

Regards

Tony.

Edited by actuary on Friday 11th January 15:05

[andygtt]

actuary said:

Whoa. These are big bhp numbers. But do these turbo set ups provide controllable power or just wheelspin ? In a race around the top gear track, my money would be on the factory GTR720 against the hyperbhp Mosler. Does anyone have a 1/4 mile time ? Jeff S has a massively fast GTR but seemed to be struggling to get traction (albeit on a relatively rough road). There doesn't seem to be a standard head to head comparison anywhere.

you'd loose your money IMO as the Mosler is a current proven race car and even with the same power would outperform the Ultima on track.... I very much doubt it will be slower with more power (even with the stupid amount of power quoted) as I have little doubt you tune the boost (ie turn it down).
A properly set up turbo on a large engine shouldn't suffer the lag that people associate with turbo applications, unless of cause they have spec'd it stupidly (or wrong) and 1800bhp sounds a little stupid even to me.

The question I would ask is how do they keep the rest of the car together, even if money is no odject I can't even think of a suitable gearbox that can take that torque.

My vote would still be the LS7 engine as you can pretty much go on to do whatever you want, mod it to rev beyond 7000rpm with 650bhp would be optimim IMO.... but for various reasons I'd not put forced induction into an Ultima.

Edited by andygtt on Saturday 12th January 14:57

[Silent1]

Watching that video, why does the engine drop 500rpm when the turbos start to kick in? Just massive turbos causing huge lag?

[chuntington101]

Boosted LS1 said:

^ Chris, do you happen to know what the dual fuel is? Is it lpg or something else.

yeah it will be C16 mate. from what i have read on other companies doing this kind of stuff its not that hard! all you do is as a set boost presure is reasch you faze out the normal injectors and then ramp up the race fuel once. so basically for the race fuel the lower half of the map is set at zero (injector) and then as the disired boost/rpm is reached they start to open up. obviously the opposite is true for the normal fuel. would be easy to do in a motec or something as you have several maps.

you thinking of having a go boosted????

Chris.

[Boosted LS1]

^ No Chris, I was going to do this to my TR8 but there was only room for a donut tank in the wheel well and as said the dual fuel injectors never went into production despite being proven. I'll stick with petrol and a blown 427 when time permits

[chuntington101]

Boosted LS1 said:

^ No Chris, I was going to do this to my TR8 but there was only room for a donut tank in the wheel well and as said the dual fuel injectors never went into production despite being proven. I'll stick with petrol and a blown 427 when time permits

so no plans to run normal and race fuel?? i think it would be a great idea for the cossy, Evo and scooby guys! with the correct fuel on demand would be great!

Chris.