Fastest Ultima Possible?
Discussion
In the future I am planning to build an Ultima for myself. It is a great car. I have been in heavy mods for M3 for 3 years. Now we are pushing the throttle of a 700HP M3 turbo, on street. But it is a heavy car compared to Ultima, 1550kg!!!
So, here is my question: I really want to build the Ultimate Ultima! What is the strongest engine tested on Ultima? I have heard a 1200HP turbo, but is it the upper limit? The standart 534HP engine seems soo slow to me. I think it will be maybe a little faster than 700HP M3. So it should worth building an Ultima, and it should be over 1000HP.
So, here is my question: I really want to build the Ultimate Ultima! What is the strongest engine tested on Ultima? I have heard a 1200HP turbo, but is it the upper limit? The standart 534HP engine seems soo slow to me. I think it will be maybe a little faster than 700HP M3. So it should worth building an Ultima, and it should be over 1000HP.
Over about 1000hp (not sure on torque limit) and you will need to start stiffening the Ultima's chassis.
If you really want "the ulitmate ultima" I would personally look at using molded carbon fiber instead of the alum paneling (will be a pain because the panneling bends easy, CF will have to be done just right) And look at increasing average HP, not just peak HP. Perhaps a clutched supercharger for low end and a turbo for top end, and baramentric sensetive so that it makes roughly the same power reguardless of elevation.
And look at fitting some wider but still low profile tires on the rear.(I know they sell street legal ones in the US that are insanely wide, most I've seen in person was 18" but I don't know what co. makes them.)
With the Getrag and G50 transmissions you can get pretty much any gear ratios you want and in 6spd... If you want more I'd get ahold of Lenco Transmissions ( I think it's www.lencoracing.com/ ) and see if they can make a 7spd+ that will fit the required dimensions. (I bet they can if you have the cash).
If you really want "the ulitmate ultima" I would personally look at using molded carbon fiber instead of the alum paneling (will be a pain because the panneling bends easy, CF will have to be done just right) And look at increasing average HP, not just peak HP. Perhaps a clutched supercharger for low end and a turbo for top end, and baramentric sensetive so that it makes roughly the same power reguardless of elevation.
And look at fitting some wider but still low profile tires on the rear.(I know they sell street legal ones in the US that are insanely wide, most I've seen in person was 18" but I don't know what co. makes them.)
With the Getrag and G50 transmissions you can get pretty much any gear ratios you want and in 6spd... If you want more I'd get ahold of Lenco Transmissions ( I think it's www.lencoracing.com/ ) and see if they can make a 7spd+ that will fit the required dimensions. (I bet they can if you have the cash).
Steve_D said:
I will have around 500HP but can think of only a few places that I will realy be able to use it. I cann't think of anywhere I could use a 1000.
Steve
I have to say, I live in Istanbul. You can make any speed you want on the highway, but you have to know the rules for that. I mean which hours, which roads. It is very common that, stock cars race with 300+ speeds on highway, at 02:00-04:00 a.m. We have 10km+ long, good highways within istanbul. All with lights, you can see at least 2km in front of you. I would dare to make at least 380km/h on our highways with an appropriate Ultima. So no problem with the roads. Just the car should be capable.
And italiano,
I use the car on highway. Straight line acceleration, and keep the speed for 1km. Brake 300 to 180, then accelerate hard to 320. And make a distance of 1km within one minute with the Diablos, Modena, 996turbo.. Thats real race, real speed. I dislike track, because there the speeds are sooo low for me.
>> Edited by kuban on Wednesday 30th July 18:42
kuban said:
I will have around 500HP but can think of only a few places that I will realy be able to use it. I cann't think of anywhere I could use a 1000.
Steve
I have to say, I live in Istanbul. You can make any speed you want on the highway, but you have to know the rules for that. I mean which hours, which roads. It is very common that, stock cars race with 300+ speeds on highway, at 02:00-04:00 a.m. We have 10km+ long, good highways within istanbul. All with lights, you can see at least 2km in front of you. I would dare to make at least 380km/h on our highways with an appropriate Ultima. So no problem with the roads. Just the car should be capable.
And italiano,
I use the car on highway. Straight line acceleration, and keep the speed for 1km. Brake 300 to 180, then accelerate hard to 320. And make a distance of 1km within one minute with the Diablos, Modena, 996turbo.. Thats real race, real speed. I dislike track, because there the speeds are sooo low for me.
>> Edited by kuban on Wednesday 30th July 18:42
You should try some of those antics over hear mate ..... Man, would you see a light show then? Blue ones, reds ones and the occasional flash strobe.
I could take you places where you'd be welcomed with open arms, oh, and prison cell doors. Your very lucky people, very lucky indeed.
Paul
ultimapaul said:
You should try some of those antics over hear mate ..... Man, would you see a light show then? Blue ones, reds ones and the occasional flash strobe.
I could take you places where you'd be welcomed with open arms, oh, and prison cell doors. Your very lucky people, very lucky indeed.
Paul
First of all, what kind of a relation is there with "Midnight Express"? That's really a movie showing whatr kind of people here the policemen are. But that's just because of political things. That kind of policemen won't be interested in bikers, or highway racers here. They will just think you are stupid, wasting your money to expensive toys. And if the traffic police catches you, since you own a sports car, they will try to get some money from you. Your 1 service to the car, costs his 1 year salary.
I haven't seen anyone in prison here in Istanbul, because of extreme speeding. If you don't kill others, or don't hit other cars. There is no problem. If the police sees you going with 320km/h, they won't try to catch you, or won't stop the highways. But ofcourse if you do these at late night. Days, I won't suggest going over 250km/h, it will cause some trouble to the driver, people may tell your color, car model to the police.
Actually I drive more than 20tkm/year in Istanbul every year, and I never had a speeding ticket, for 9 years. And anyday I drove my M3, have almost always gone over 2 x speed limit on highway. But I tell this extreme speeding(300+km/h) again, open roads, and 02:00am / 04:00am. There shouldn't be more then 1car/per km on the highway. 4 lane highway, with lights. Other than that, this is risky. People here even race innercity, I have seen a boy, with a speed ticket of 240km/h, in innercity where speed limit was 50 or 60km. I never did that. People here race in innercity with Peugeot106 class, with 120km/h everyday. I dislike that kind of things.
However I don't see a problem, with doing 320km/h on a highway, where there is no car on a 4 lane highway. I only risk myself, not the others. If there is a mechanical problem though, I would be flying to the other side.
By the way, the subject was "Fastest Ultima Possible". No one replied me on that subject. I have to know my aim, and I want to learn from the actual builders (I am a future builder), the techniques of that. Which engine people use. What are your experiences with twin turbo V8. Heating problems in UltimaGTR chasis? Because twin turbos will really cause extra heat. Where to put the intercoolers?
Or is the sports chasis a better selection for this extreme street application?
>> Edited by kuban on Thursday 31st July 10:53
Kuban if you can get away with it then fine.
You said you want to run with the lambos, porsches and ferrari's? You won't need much power to beat them.
I guess when we talk about how much power, we're living in western countries that don't look too kindly on revheads going a few kays over the limit.
I really need to get to the NT. Doc, one Q: if you're doing say 200 along a good, straight road, no traffic, a cop wouldn't pull you over would he? They won't bust you for dangerous driving or some other charge? You can really go any speed you want in unlimited areas?? Sounds like heaven, sounds too good to be true.
You said you want to run with the lambos, porsches and ferrari's? You won't need much power to beat them.
I guess when we talk about how much power, we're living in western countries that don't look too kindly on revheads going a few kays over the limit.
I really need to get to the NT. Doc, one Q: if you're doing say 200 along a good, straight road, no traffic, a cop wouldn't pull you over would he? They won't bust you for dangerous driving or some other charge? You can really go any speed you want in unlimited areas?? Sounds like heaven, sounds too good to be true.
JCof T.O. said:
I think this is what you are looking for.
www.spectrum5.com/
Thanks a lot. These guys really do the ultimate Ultima I guess. They do twin turbo V8, and they plan to produce 1300HP in Ultima chasis. This is really serious power. It would maybe even cope with a Formula1 during acceleration over 100mph, where traction starts to come. I really liked them, they do the same thing we do to M3 engine, they fabricate custom header for turbo, and run it.
Look to our page www.da-motorsport.com/
There you can see the E36 M3, with 700HP turbocharge. We even plan to bring the car to 1000HP, but we have to have the budget for that. It is a very good car, completely stock from outside, very very underestimated car. We can even paste a 320i sticker in behind. :-)
But the Ultima, should be really powerfull when we build it. Thanks again for letting me know of "spectrum5" website. I will contact with them, and learn the problems with Ultima twinTurbo.
They seem to get stuck at 925HP level because of porsche transaxle's torque limit. But I will ask them if they are trying to find a stronger transaxle.
If I don't remember wrong, spectrum5 are the guys, Ted Marlow told me. He told me that the 1200HP ultima is way fast, it finished 5th gear 225mph, and still one gear left with a lot of power to accelerate. As far as I read from their website, they still have 700HP to accellerate the ultima, while goinf with 225mph. Can you think that, the car accelerates as fast as 535HP Ultima is in 2nd gear, but in 6th gear going with 225mph?!! That will be real fun.
By the way, what are technical differences of Ultima GTR vs Ultima Sports? Which one should be a better chasis for these kind of applications?
>> Edited by kuban on Thursday 31st July 17:24
If I don't remember wrong, spectrum5 are the guys, Ted Marlow told me. He told me that the 1200HP ultima is way fast, it finished 5th gear 225mph, and still one gear left with a lot of power to accelerate. As far as I read from their website, they still have 700HP to accellerate the ultima, while goinf with 225mph. Can you think that, the car accelerates as fast as 535HP Ultima is in 2nd gear, but in 6th gear going with 225mph?!! That will be real fun.
By the way, what are technical differences of Ultima GTR vs Ultima Sports? Which one should be a better chasis for these kind of applications?
>> Edited by kuban on Thursday 31st July 17:24
simonrockman said:
I think I'd want to look at some active downforce. The thought of being on a public road - and maybe hitting a small animal - is scary. You'd easily flip.
Simon
Yes even with an Ultima, you have to be sure of the road if you try over 340km/h of speeds. But 300km/h is not too much of a problem on a good highway, like we have in Istanbul. I guess the German highways are also the same(if not better) quality. But nowadays Mercedes tell that, delimited SL55 AMG, can reach to 325km/h!! Can you think, a production car manufactured by Mercedes, and a standart driver has a car, which can reach to 325km/h. And you can service it, at your local Mercedes service
What about CL62 AMG. Will it go faster than 340km/h??? These are all stock cars. Come on guys, you drive Ultima, even the Mercedes drivers dare that kind of speed. I know in Istanbul more than 20-30 SL55AMG. And almost all of the E36 M3 drivers try top speed of 285km/h here, removing speed limiter. But no other serious modified M3 in Istanbul. Just C5 corvettes with NOS. Lower than 600HP mark.
kuban said:
What is the strongest engine tested on Ultima? I have heard a 1200HP turbo, but is it the upper limit?
If we’re talking about testing the chassis strength, shouldn’t y’all be talking about torque levels, not HP levels?
kuban said:
Heating problems in UltimaGTR chasis? Because twin turbos will really cause extra heat. Where to put the intercoolers?
Turbos *with intercoolers* on a max-potential engine are often better at shedding heat for any given HP level than an N/A engine. Don’t know about the Ultima’s specifics, though.
kuban said:
If the police sees you going with 320km/h, they won't try to catch you, or won't stop the highways. But ofcourse if you do these at late night. ... If you don't kill others, or don't hit other cars...
I hope you’re using much brighter headlights than we're allowed to here, on these deserted highways (which I hafta assume have no streetlights...), because at 320 kph (292 feet/second), you need to see *clearly* (clear enough for an instant reaction) about 1400 feet ahead of you with a GOOD car (supercar) and a GOOD driver (perfect 0.5 second RT)... Otherwise, you’re playing Russian roulette with the chance that you won’t see an errant deer or drunk pedestrian before colliding: Such headlights for you to see a safe distance would be the equivalent of about 18 US-legal HIGH-beams.
...And that’s for the ones that don’t come out of the darkness of your headlights’ periphery, in which case, you can hit them before even getting your foot on the brake (especially a fast animal...and they usually like to be going fast when crossing highways...). I’ve seen that happen –- to a good driver at LEGAL speeds -- and nevermind how good his car was; he apparently never even got his foot on the brake.
I don’t see a problem with 200 mph on the right highway with the right car and the right driver, either -- but as even Montana recognized, that changes at night.
>> Edited by jhr8 on Saturday 2nd August 08:42
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