Discussion
I had the pleasure of spending some time at the Ultima factory and am 'this close' totaking the plunge. Daunting though it may be - the thought of spending a year or so building the car - I'm very excited. And, owning a 997S Cab and a FordGT, the GTR ride with Ted reminded me of why small, light and powerful is the only way to go for a real sports car. They really seem like commuter cars with small or no back seats in comparison.
The remaining question is GTR or CanAm? I live in CA/USA - in the Bay Area. Perfect weather for a soft top. But I'm looking for some guidance, some folks with first-hand experience with the CanAm (there was none to sample at the 'plant'). For example:
What are the handling differences, if any?
What are the noise/wind issue like in the CanAm - with full windscreen? With low windscreen - compared to the GTR?
What is it like coping with the soft top? How long does it take to doff and don?
What is it like driving the car with the soft top on? How does it affect noise levels, etc?
Does the car stay dry with the top up?
I don't plan to track the car, but will drive it on the open road and around town - in nice weather. Rainy weather it will remain garaged. But I am looking for the level of 'civility' in the comparison between the two. Ted made it sound like the tall windscreen kept the gusts and wind noise to a minimum. To me, the car is even more beautiful in CanAm form. And I tend to drive top-town with my 997S almost all the time. I am a convertible-holic.
I'd really appreciate the assistance and advice. I've been all over the net looking for some comparisons, but have yet to find any.
Thanks in advance,
Verde
blog: http://autopianviews.blogspot.com/
The remaining question is GTR or CanAm? I live in CA/USA - in the Bay Area. Perfect weather for a soft top. But I'm looking for some guidance, some folks with first-hand experience with the CanAm (there was none to sample at the 'plant'). For example:
What are the handling differences, if any?
What are the noise/wind issue like in the CanAm - with full windscreen? With low windscreen - compared to the GTR?
What is it like coping with the soft top? How long does it take to doff and don?
What is it like driving the car with the soft top on? How does it affect noise levels, etc?
Does the car stay dry with the top up?
I don't plan to track the car, but will drive it on the open road and around town - in nice weather. Rainy weather it will remain garaged. But I am looking for the level of 'civility' in the comparison between the two. Ted made it sound like the tall windscreen kept the gusts and wind noise to a minimum. To me, the car is even more beautiful in CanAm form. And I tend to drive top-town with my 997S almost all the time. I am a convertible-holic.
I'd really appreciate the assistance and advice. I've been all over the net looking for some comparisons, but have yet to find any.
Thanks in advance,
Verde
blog: http://autopianviews.blogspot.com/
Edited by Verde on Sunday 28th September 02:38
Hiya,
If you are already a convertaholic then I can only think that if you went the GTR route, you'd always be kicking yourself on the plentiful sunny days you have out there.
As for performance, the Can-Am is lighter I believe, and I've never heard stiffness being an issue.
The Can-Am chaps will be able to tell you about noise and practicality of the hood. But even if there was more drama without a roof, that's part of the fun, no?
Good luck. As long as it has Ultima on the body somewhere, you'll have made the right choice!!!
What colour T-Shirt do you want?
If you are already a convertaholic then I can only think that if you went the GTR route, you'd always be kicking yourself on the plentiful sunny days you have out there.
As for performance, the Can-Am is lighter I believe, and I've never heard stiffness being an issue.
The Can-Am chaps will be able to tell you about noise and practicality of the hood. But even if there was more drama without a roof, that's part of the fun, no?
Good luck. As long as it has Ultima on the body somewhere, you'll have made the right choice!!!
What colour T-Shirt do you want?
Welcome to the madhouse Rich.
Don't have a CanAm so can't answer your questions from first hand which is what you are looking for. However, your use and location has to make CanAm your choice.
There will be very little difference performance wise as the chassis and running gear is pretty much the same and the body non structural. The main difference will be aerodynamic. A far bigger difference will be your choice of engine power.
From what I hear from others the soft-top is very good.
Don't be shy to ask questions. Pretty much everyone here has been where you are now and know what to expect.
Steve
Don't have a CanAm so can't answer your questions from first hand which is what you are looking for. However, your use and location has to make CanAm your choice.
There will be very little difference performance wise as the chassis and running gear is pretty much the same and the body non structural. The main difference will be aerodynamic. A far bigger difference will be your choice of engine power.
From what I hear from others the soft-top is very good.
Don't be shy to ask questions. Pretty much everyone here has been where you are now and know what to expect.
Steve
Thanks to both of you. I'm hoping for an ever-luvin' fuel injected 650 hp LS7. I'm old enough to remember the pre-efi age, and I don't want to ever go back there. So that part is easy. And, since I have a 997S, I'd like to recreate the gearchange experience with a 6-speed cable operated box.
Still want to hook up with an honest-to-goodness CanAm drive who has sipped both potions before deciding.
Oh, and what't the deal on the tee shirt. I think I'm as good as in here, so I might as well make it my first purchase...
Still want to hook up with an honest-to-goodness CanAm drive who has sipped both potions before deciding.
Oh, and what't the deal on the tee shirt. I think I'm as good as in here, so I might as well make it my first purchase...
Having a spyder i would say open top is the only way to go. My only regret is the lack of sunshine in the uk. When its sunny the car is fantastic, in the rain - not nice. I feel the canam gives the perfect answer with the roof option. yes its windy and you hear the exhaust notes etc but thats what its all about for me. plus if your tall, with a crash hat you may not fit in a gtr- best to check. The areo screen is best imo, big screen for winter with the roof option.
i nearly started this same topic this week as the can-am / gtr is a big discission especially as windows on gtr dont wind down, but one thought i had was a removable hardtop for the can-am...has anyone thought about it.??
GTR more aggresive looks but some how the can-am looks more modern(whoops here starts the s
gging!!!!)
GTR more aggresive looks but some how the can-am looks more modern(whoops here starts the s
gging!!!!)Verde,
I have a GTR but living in Sunny San Diego, I often wish I had the Can Am. I've seen the Can Am in person. There is a great guy named Eric that lives just north of me in Orange County that has a very nice, green Can Am. I'm sure he'd be glad to show it to you if you wanted to come down. Its only a hundred dollar Southwest Airlines flight. These cars have great heaters so you'd be fine in the Bay Area with a Can Am. If you're not planning on tracking it, I'd definitely go with the Can Am.
Good luck with your decision,
Paul
I have a GTR but living in Sunny San Diego, I often wish I had the Can Am. I've seen the Can Am in person. There is a great guy named Eric that lives just north of me in Orange County that has a very nice, green Can Am. I'm sure he'd be glad to show it to you if you wanted to come down. Its only a hundred dollar Southwest Airlines flight. These cars have great heaters so you'd be fine in the Bay Area with a Can Am. If you're not planning on tracking it, I'd definitely go with the Can Am.
Good luck with your decision,
Paul
I've not driven both, but when I was deciding what to buy I had Ted take me out in both. I have never been keen on rag tops and was sure the GTR was for me before arriving. The test drive completely changed my mind, and I bought a Can-Am. With the high screen there is very little buffeting from the wind, whether you use the short or the high side screens (I have both but have left the high ones fitted due to the rubbish summer we have just had). From inside I think the Can-Am sounds much better - less like a race car and a great exhaust note - but that's just my preference. There is a bit more wind noise with the roof on, but if you only use it on sunny days that won't be a problem. The first time you put the roof up it will take ages, but with a bit of practice no more than 5 mins (put it up before the rain starts!). There is a bit more visibility out of the back of the Can-Am than the GTR, particularly if you take the roof off completely. However, if you leave the roof rolled up behind the roll bar it restricts visibility if you stop diagonally at a junction (hope that makes sense), so you get used to turning square on if possible. With or without the roof rolled up, its easy to see where it is when parking.
The Can-Am can get a little warm inside (probably the GTR does too), although I haven't found it unbearable even when driving in Spain during the summer to escape the rain over here. AC is a must, IMHO, and its worth looking at the valve that controls the flow to the heater as discussed on another thread.
I can't compare the performance and handling with a GTR as I haven't driven one, although there are a couple of people on here who have and who might be able to help if they are around. I have the AS 535 SBC with the Getrag 6 speed transaxle as in the factory demonstrator, which is plenty fast enough for me and pins passengers to their seats.
They're both fantastic cars at the end of the day, so good luck with whatever you decide. Just don't ask about colour
If you're still in the UK and not too far away I would be happy to pop round to give you something to compare with.
The Can-Am can get a little warm inside (probably the GTR does too), although I haven't found it unbearable even when driving in Spain during the summer to escape the rain over here. AC is a must, IMHO, and its worth looking at the valve that controls the flow to the heater as discussed on another thread.
I can't compare the performance and handling with a GTR as I haven't driven one, although there are a couple of people on here who have and who might be able to help if they are around. I have the AS 535 SBC with the Getrag 6 speed transaxle as in the factory demonstrator, which is plenty fast enough for me and pins passengers to their seats.
They're both fantastic cars at the end of the day, so good luck with whatever you decide. Just don't ask about colour
If you're still in the UK and not too far away I would be happy to pop round to give you something to compare with.
Edited by cliveg on Sunday 28th September 19:54
Sorry for the slight hijack here, but I'm seriously considering an Ultima build next year having just sold my Exige. How much commonality is there between the Can-Am and GTR, and how easy is it to change the aeroscreen for the full height screen and soft top, and even - is it a viable option to have both sets of bodywork?
Liam
Liam
hi having spoken to ted about the same idea(ie start build and decide can-am/gtr body work later) i was told the chassis is different there fore i had to decide first before ordering......i think door mounts etc different
thats why i was thinking canam with a removable hard top.... ive been looking at Zonda design and i recon could make one simular(ie hard top clicks into place on roll bar) or a removable hard top like use say on mx5/ bmw 34 series where you leave in the garage and use soft top in emergency
thats why i was thinking canam with a removable hard top.... ive been looking at Zonda design and i recon could make one simular(ie hard top clicks into place on roll bar) or a removable hard top like use say on mx5/ bmw 34 series where you leave in the garage and use soft top in emergency
Having owned a Canam and driven the GTR I'd pick the Canam every time even in the UK.
Im a full screen man though and the weather gear for the canam is more than adequate even for diving in heavy rain... its not porsche quality though, but doesnt need to be as long as it keep you dry.
I never had an issue putting the roof up... but the i fitted it as i do know others struggle.... its not simple.
As for chasis stiffness... there is a difference but I dont think its major and unless you are really good you wont tell the difference IMO... setup and tyre choice etc will make more of a difference.... If you go for the full screen I think there is very little difference in weight (having weighed them back to back), if they are the same spec (wheels size, air con etc).
Good luck.
BTW canams rule lol
Im a full screen man though and the weather gear for the canam is more than adequate even for diving in heavy rain... its not porsche quality though, but doesnt need to be as long as it keep you dry.
I never had an issue putting the roof up... but the i fitted it as i do know others struggle.... its not simple.
As for chasis stiffness... there is a difference but I dont think its major and unless you are really good you wont tell the difference IMO... setup and tyre choice etc will make more of a difference.... If you go for the full screen I think there is very little difference in weight (having weighed them back to back), if they are the same spec (wheels size, air con etc).
Good luck.
BTW canams rule lol
andygtt said:
Having owned a Canam and driven the GTR I'd pick the Canam every time even in the UK.
Im a full screen man though and the weather gear for the canam is more than adequate even for diving in heavy rain... its not porsche quality though, but doesnt need to be as long as it keep you dry.
I never had an issue putting the roof up... but the i fitted it as i do know others struggle.... its not simple.
As for chasis stiffness... there is a difference but I dont think its major and unless you are really good you wont tell the difference IMO... setup and tyre choice etc will make more of a difference.... If you go for the full screen I think there is very little difference in weight (having weighed them back to back), if they are the same spec (wheels size, air con etc).
Good luck.
BTW canams rule lol
Umm ..... Gtr's look so much better imo and im sure most onlookers prefer the look of them. They certainly look more aggressive. Im a full screen man though and the weather gear for the canam is more than adequate even for diving in heavy rain... its not porsche quality though, but doesnt need to be as long as it keep you dry.
I never had an issue putting the roof up... but the i fitted it as i do know others struggle.... its not simple.
As for chasis stiffness... there is a difference but I dont think its major and unless you are really good you wont tell the difference IMO... setup and tyre choice etc will make more of a difference.... If you go for the full screen I think there is very little difference in weight (having weighed them back to back), if they are the same spec (wheels size, air con etc).
Good luck.
BTW canams rule lol
Having lived with a can-am for 3 years if you love the sunshine and driving with the top down then it is the way to go , quite a bit quiter than a GTR with the full screen but it can get bloody hot sat in the sun so pay lots of attension to keeping the heat out of the cockpit and aircon is a must if you can get it to work properly !!!! odd thing is that if i ever build another one it would be a GTR !!!
Verde said:
I had the pleasure of spending some time at the Ultima factory and am 'this close' totaking the plunge. Daunting though it may be - the thought of spending a year or so building the car - I'm very excited. And, owning a 997S Cab and a FordGT, the GTR ride with Ted reminded me of why small, light and powerful is the only way to go for a real sports car. They really seem like commuter cars with small or no back seats in comparison.
The remaining question is GTR or CanAm? I live in CA/USA - in the Bay Area. Perfect weather for a soft top. But I'm looking for some guidance, some folks with first-hand experience with the CanAm (there was none to sample at the 'plant'). For example:
What are the handling differences, if any?
What are the noise/wind issue like in the CanAm - with full windscreen? With low windscreen - compared to the GTR?
What is it like coping with the soft top? How long does it take to doff and don?
What is it like driving the car with the soft top on? How does it affect noise levels, etc?
Does the car stay dry with the top up?
I don't plan to track the car, but will drive it on the open road and around town - in nice weather. Rainy weather it will remain garaged. But I am looking for the level of 'civility' in the comparison between the two. Ted made it sound like the tall windscreen kept the gusts and wind noise to a minimum. To me, the car is even more beautiful in CanAm form. And I tend to drive top-town with my 997S almost all the time. I am a convertible-holic.
I'd really appreciate the assistance and advice. I've been all over the net looking for some comparisons, but have yet to find any.
Thanks in advance,
Verde
blog: http://autopianviews.blogspot.com/
The remaining question is GTR or CanAm? I live in CA/USA - in the Bay Area. Perfect weather for a soft top. But I'm looking for some guidance, some folks with first-hand experience with the CanAm (there was none to sample at the 'plant'). For example:
What are the handling differences, if any?
What are the noise/wind issue like in the CanAm - with full windscreen? With low windscreen - compared to the GTR?
What is it like coping with the soft top? How long does it take to doff and don?
What is it like driving the car with the soft top on? How does it affect noise levels, etc?
Does the car stay dry with the top up?
I don't plan to track the car, but will drive it on the open road and around town - in nice weather. Rainy weather it will remain garaged. But I am looking for the level of 'civility' in the comparison between the two. Ted made it sound like the tall windscreen kept the gusts and wind noise to a minimum. To me, the car is even more beautiful in CanAm form. And I tend to drive top-town with my 997S almost all the time. I am a convertible-holic.
I'd really appreciate the assistance and advice. I've been all over the net looking for some comparisons, but have yet to find any.
Thanks in advance,
Verde
blog: http://autopianviews.blogspot.com/
Verde said:
Still want to hook up with an honest-to-goodness CanAm drive who has sipped both potions before deciding.
Well, that'll be me then 
My GTR and Can-Am were very different performance propositions, so it's hard to make like-for-like comparisons, but I'll try.
The GTR (I had a supercharged .383ci SBC @ 630hp)is very much the 'Le Mans refugee'. It's pretty uncompromising, looks fabulous and goes as well as the power plant you put in. You feel 'part of the machine' as you'll get a good deal of noise from the engine bay coming into the cabin (like being in a drum) - which is great for a blast, but can become wearing on longer runs. On the flipside, the aircon is likely (I imagine) to be pretty marginal in CA and you can't wind down any windows (helicopter vents). Getting in and out requires some dexterity too.
The Can-Am (I had a .350ci SBC @ 402hp) is still a stunning performer, but (for CA at least) I'd say would be probably easier to live with day-to-day. It's generally easier to get in and out for starters (with the roof off at least, otherwise it's like posting yourself into a letterbox - probably harder than the GTR in fact). You get the wind in the hair and a more visceral aural experience. Of course, having (generally speaking) a better climate, you can enjoy more roof-down days, BUT, I know the value of aircon when the sun is really beating down on you! Fitting the roof is definitely not a 5 minute affair, but with practice is doesn't have to be too much of a drag.
It's a tough one really. Obviously with the LS7 you're clear from an EPA compliance perspective - so the motor would suit both. On balance considering your location though I'd go for the Can-Am.
So to answer your questions, I'd say:
What are the handling differences, if any? - None. You'd have to be VERY talented to discern any difference at all. My Can-Am handled better, but that was due to the lack of LSD which tends to give you more understeer. I preferred the cable shift Getrag to the G50 too.
What are the noise/wind issue like in the CanAm - with full windscreen? Never found it a problem - it's remarkably civilised even at speed.
With low windscreen - compared to the GTR? - never tried it, never wanted to (however crazyofcookham can confirm as he has used both)! Don't like the low screen. You'll just end up with a face full of bugs for no real benefit that I can see?
What is it like coping with the soft top? How long does it take to doff and don? - It's straightforward enough - but not a 2 minute job. It's the sort of thing you'd want to do before you set off rather than 1/2 way through a drive.
What is it like driving the car with the soft top on? How does it affect noise levels, etc? - Can't comment as I've never been in a Can-Am with the soft top on! (andygtt or crazyofcookham can comment though)
Does the car stay dry with the top up? - Yup. Seems very weather tight from what I've seen/heard.
Good luck!
PS. You forgot to mention the 3rd car in your fleet
Don't worry, LuckyP and I are fans at least Edited by Stig on Monday 29th September 14:29
Hi I am perhaps a little more bias having only driven the Canam, just a few points adding to what already been said. I have had the conflicting task this year of wanting to do both track days and long journeys in the Canam and the adaptation have not suited both. i.e fitting aircon and running a more aggresive cam and tough suspension.
The canam is great over distances and can be driven in most temps. Heat is more of a problem than cold. Aircon a must and you might consider fitting a more powerful unit for CA. Insulting the passenger cabin also would help.
I believe that getting in and out of a CAnam is much easier (assuming roof off).
The aeroscreen is just for fun. It gets very tyring on journeys at speed. I have not used mine this year due to UK weather. It does make however the driving experience more extreme. I have yet to drive on track with aero but tend to like the idea of a laminated screen between me and bits of flying car. The bug issue Stig mentioned depends on your height. I am 5'10" and the airflow just passes over my head so not a problem.
I have now driven 18,000 miles in a Canam and generally very happy with it. The main points to consider in my opinion are engine choice and controlling the heat. So don't to big on HP and perhaps consider an LS
The canam is great over distances and can be driven in most temps. Heat is more of a problem than cold. Aircon a must and you might consider fitting a more powerful unit for CA. Insulting the passenger cabin also would help.
I believe that getting in and out of a CAnam is much easier (assuming roof off).
The aeroscreen is just for fun. It gets very tyring on journeys at speed. I have not used mine this year due to UK weather. It does make however the driving experience more extreme. I have yet to drive on track with aero but tend to like the idea of a laminated screen between me and bits of flying car. The bug issue Stig mentioned depends on your height. I am 5'10" and the airflow just passes over my head so not a problem.
I have now driven 18,000 miles in a Canam and generally very happy with it. The main points to consider in my opinion are engine choice and controlling the heat. So don't to big on HP and perhaps consider an LS
Most of the heat problem comes from the build up of heat, mainly around the footwell. If I was building again I would insulate around the inside of the front bulkhead. Also on the back of the alipanels. Its more of an issue of heat coming from the rad and front than the engine bay. I would not however insulate the pipes, I think Stig found this can create other problems. The aircon works very well in the footwell recirculating air so if you can keep the heat out it would help. The Canam seams to defy the laws of physics in the hot air remains in the car rather than travel up. However the cool air from the aircon does seam to drop and stay as it should. I find that if I have been sitting in traffic for some time, once yoy start moving at any speed you get hit by a wall of heat.
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