Front Number Plate
Discussion
Just picked up a fixed penalty for the position of the front number plate not being able to be read, yet every Ultima I have ever seen, has it in the same position on the front clip just behind the Ultima lettering. anybody else been in this situation and what was the outcome please.
Regards Russell.
Regards Russell.
It is probably one of the grey areas, you hear lots of rumors etc over the years. I thought that having a stick one plate like I have was a no no, then not having it in a 'near' verticle position was another. Then there is the more common font issues and spacing that seems to be much better defined.
Were you doing anything else to attact attention Russ?
Were you doing anything else to attact attention Russ?
As you say everyones seem to be in the same position... Did police stop you when you were traveling towards them or did they follow you?
As an MOT tester im fairly light in this area(especially with my old tiger having m/c size letter and numbers) but must ask after seeing your car at Chomley in the summer it wouldnt have anything to do with the FON / FUN bit of the no. plate would it Russ??
dom
As an MOT tester im fairly light in this area(especially with my old tiger having m/c size letter and numbers) but must ask after seeing your car at Chomley in the summer it wouldnt have anything to do with the FON / FUN bit of the no. plate would it Russ??
dom
This may help from Statutory Instrument 2001 No. 561
The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001
I think you have a case to complain about.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2001/20010561.htm#6
And the following:
Fixing of front registration plates: vehicles registered on or after the relevant date
6. - (1) This regulation applies to vehicles, other than works trucks, road rollers and agricultural machines, first registered on or after the relevant date.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (5), a registration plate must be fixed on the front of the vehicle in the manner required by paragraph (3).
(3) This paragraph requires the plate to be fixed -
(a) vertically or, where that is not reasonably practicable, in a position as close to the vertical as is reasonably practicable,
(b) in such a position that in normal daylight the characters of the registration mark are easily distinguishable from every part of a relevant area having the diagonal length specified in paragraph (4).
(4) The diagonal length of the relevant area is -
(a) in the case of a mark having characters the width of which is at least 57 millimetres, 22 metres,
(b) in the case of a mark having characters the width of which is 50 millimetres, 21.5 metres,
(c) in the case of a mark having characters the width of which is 44 millimetres, 18 metres.
(5) In the case of a motor cycle or a motor tricycle which does not have a body of a type which is characteristic of the body of a four-wheeled vehicle -
(a) a registration plate must not be fixed on the front of a vehicle if it was first registered on or after 1st September 2001,
(b) a plate need not be fixed on the front of the vehicle if it was first registered before 1st September 2001.
Fixing of registration plates: vehicles registered before the relevant date
7. - (1) This regulation applies to vehicles, other than works trucks, road rollers and agricultural machines, first registered before the relevant date.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (4), a registration plate must be fixed in the manner required by paragraph (3) on -
(a) the front of the vehicle, and
(b) the rear of -
(i) the vehicle or,
(ii) where the vehicle is towing a trailer, the trailer or,
(iii) where the vehicle is towing more than one trailer, the rearmost trailer.
(3) This paragraph requires each plate to be fixed -
(a) in a vertical position or, where that is not possible, in a position as close to the vertical as is reasonably practicable, and
(b) in such a position that in normal daylight the characters of the registration mark are easily distinguishable, in the case of a plate fixed on the front of the vehicle, from in front of the vehicle and, in the case of a plate fixed on the rear of the vehicle or trailer, from behind the vehicle or trailer.
(4) In the case of a motor cycle and a motor tricycle which does not have a body of a type which is characteristic of the body of a four-wheeled vehicle, a registration plate need not be fixed on the front of the vehicle.
The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001
I think you have a case to complain about.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2001/20010561.htm#6
And the following:
Fixing of front registration plates: vehicles registered on or after the relevant date
6. - (1) This regulation applies to vehicles, other than works trucks, road rollers and agricultural machines, first registered on or after the relevant date.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (5), a registration plate must be fixed on the front of the vehicle in the manner required by paragraph (3).
(3) This paragraph requires the plate to be fixed -
(a) vertically or, where that is not reasonably practicable, in a position as close to the vertical as is reasonably practicable,
(b) in such a position that in normal daylight the characters of the registration mark are easily distinguishable from every part of a relevant area having the diagonal length specified in paragraph (4).
(4) The diagonal length of the relevant area is -
(a) in the case of a mark having characters the width of which is at least 57 millimetres, 22 metres,
(b) in the case of a mark having characters the width of which is 50 millimetres, 21.5 metres,
(c) in the case of a mark having characters the width of which is 44 millimetres, 18 metres.
(5) In the case of a motor cycle or a motor tricycle which does not have a body of a type which is characteristic of the body of a four-wheeled vehicle -
(a) a registration plate must not be fixed on the front of a vehicle if it was first registered on or after 1st September 2001,
(b) a plate need not be fixed on the front of the vehicle if it was first registered before 1st September 2001.
Fixing of registration plates: vehicles registered before the relevant date
7. - (1) This regulation applies to vehicles, other than works trucks, road rollers and agricultural machines, first registered before the relevant date.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (4), a registration plate must be fixed in the manner required by paragraph (3) on -
(a) the front of the vehicle, and
(b) the rear of -
(i) the vehicle or,
(ii) where the vehicle is towing a trailer, the trailer or,
(iii) where the vehicle is towing more than one trailer, the rearmost trailer.
(3) This paragraph requires each plate to be fixed -
(a) in a vertical position or, where that is not possible, in a position as close to the vertical as is reasonably practicable, and
(b) in such a position that in normal daylight the characters of the registration mark are easily distinguishable, in the case of a plate fixed on the front of the vehicle, from in front of the vehicle and, in the case of a plate fixed on the rear of the vehicle or trailer, from behind the vehicle or trailer.
(4) In the case of a motor cycle and a motor tricycle which does not have a body of a type which is characteristic of the body of a four-wheeled vehicle, a registration plate need not be fixed on the front of the vehicle.
Edited by bluesatin on Saturday 1st November 18:27
Edited by bluesatin on Saturday 1st November 18:29
Travelling down Kelsall hill which is a long dual carriageway wide open giving beautiful paramic views over the cheshire plain towards Chester,( Mr Can-Am will know of it ) no traffic in front due to the fact I had passed it all, travelling shall we say at, er, no we won't say, arriving on the flat and a layby on the left packed with BIB all out of there cars probably having a cuppa, but must of heard me, so slowed down and carried along for about a mile to my turning right, heard the sirens turned into the lane and low and behold blue flashing lights sirens the full monti, so pulled over, knew I was speeding but couldn't proove it, asked me what I thought I was doing couldn't tell him as I was soaking up the beautiful view over Cheshire and not looking at the speedo, so decided to proceed with a ticket for the position of the front number plate as he said you cant read it, I mentioned that for an MOT as long as you can read it from 60m then its ok, but kept my calm and accepted the ticket, he did take a couple of photos, was going to charge him ( help towards fine ) but thought better of it.
So in summary PB3 were you doing anything else to attract attn ? er yes
Suntiger, yes I was followed
Bluesatin, thanks I am going to contest it !
So in summary PB3 were you doing anything else to attract attn ? er yes
Suntiger, yes I was followed
Bluesatin, thanks I am going to contest it !
Edited by highflyer on Sunday 2nd November 10:19
good luck... i know Cheshire police can be a real pain in the ass...
I would be careful contesting it though if your letter O has been altered a little bit to look like a U.. police now can be very differcult if they want to be and if you go to court its £1000 fine, 3 points and the posibility of them taking number plate from you because you have tampered with your number plate...
If the U is a U then you have nothing to worry about as there is nothing wrong with the position of your front nimber plate, especially compared to the front one on your can-am!!!!!!!
Good luck(and nice talking to you at Chomley in the summer)
dom
I would be careful contesting it though if your letter O has been altered a little bit to look like a U.. police now can be very differcult if they want to be and if you go to court its £1000 fine, 3 points and the posibility of them taking number plate from you because you have tampered with your number plate...
If the U is a U then you have nothing to worry about as there is nothing wrong with the position of your front nimber plate, especially compared to the front one on your can-am!!!!!!!
Good luck(and nice talking to you at Chomley in the summer)
dom
Covered....contest the b
ds then..
Russ i will check my Mot book for you tommorrow but it might not help as police rules are 50 fold compared to just being legal for an MOT test... When i trained for MOT testing we were told out of the 75 sections of the police highway rules, the mot side was only sections 56-59... In other words just because it passes an MOT does not mean it passes a police inspection..
It might be that the police saw your cruising speeds in the Ultima far far superior to the cruising speeds of their volvo t70 XR GTI turbo and were really really jealous and just wanted to piss you off....
chin up, be nice and polite and show them up......good luck as there will be alot of people looking at this one..
do you think they will mind my front number plate then??
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/753721.htm
and thats not the show plate!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dom
ds then..Russ i will check my Mot book for you tommorrow but it might not help as police rules are 50 fold compared to just being legal for an MOT test... When i trained for MOT testing we were told out of the 75 sections of the police highway rules, the mot side was only sections 56-59... In other words just because it passes an MOT does not mean it passes a police inspection..
It might be that the police saw your cruising speeds in the Ultima far far superior to the cruising speeds of their volvo t70 XR GTI turbo and were really really jealous and just wanted to piss you off....
chin up, be nice and polite and show them up......good luck as there will be alot of people looking at this one..
do you think they will mind my front number plate then??
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/753721.htm
and thats not the show plate!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dom
Don't get me going on this one!!
So a few interesting points here..... If your car passed the SVA with that plate (unmodified) then its legal? yes? but there are a few very relevant points to consider..(as a result of my first hand experience of such happenings!) The rules are:
1) All traffic cops are not human. They are not like Policemen/women, traffic police are another breed.
EG: My son when around 17 years gets stopped late at night - when he asks why - Answer: : "just sit there and we will find something!"
Also, when he sounded his horn in a petrol station one evening, he was held up for an hour until 11;31pm and then given a ticket for sounding a horn in a built up area (only counts after 11:30pm)
I was at the pistonheads meeting when the 3 (yes 3) police panda cars came into the car park at Virginia Water looking to stop the vile offense that was taking place. Fully armed - with a ruler - they found a front number plate a bit small. Driver Fined and banged to rights.
My point is..... they can do what they like, and if it turns out to be incorrect on their part - so what? They have a laugh about it, you face all the sh*t and hassle to get it sorted.
But fight it I suggest you must/should. But, if they can prove you broke just one letter of the law, you will lose. The rules seem to need interpretation so I guess its what the magistrate says on the day.
So are you going to fight it? Do we need to set up a fund?
SAVE the HIGHFLYER ONE - FROM "OTHER" TOWN??
So a few interesting points here..... If your car passed the SVA with that plate (unmodified) then its legal? yes? but there are a few very relevant points to consider..(as a result of my first hand experience of such happenings!) The rules are:
1) All traffic cops are not human. They are not like Policemen/women, traffic police are another breed.
EG: My son when around 17 years gets stopped late at night - when he asks why - Answer: : "just sit there and we will find something!"
Also, when he sounded his horn in a petrol station one evening, he was held up for an hour until 11;31pm and then given a ticket for sounding a horn in a built up area (only counts after 11:30pm)
I was at the pistonheads meeting when the 3 (yes 3) police panda cars came into the car park at Virginia Water looking to stop the vile offense that was taking place. Fully armed - with a ruler - they found a front number plate a bit small. Driver Fined and banged to rights.
My point is..... they can do what they like, and if it turns out to be incorrect on their part - so what? They have a laugh about it, you face all the sh*t and hassle to get it sorted.
But fight it I suggest you must/should. But, if they can prove you broke just one letter of the law, you will lose. The rules seem to need interpretation so I guess its what the magistrate says on the day.
So are you going to fight it? Do we need to set up a fund?
SAVE the HIGHFLYER ONE - FROM "OTHER" TOWN??
HI Russ
mot book say i quote
section 6.2
method of inspection
on vehicles first registered on or after 1 january 1973 check.
1/ colour characters and background.
2/ that the registration plates are fixed vertically or as close to vertical as reasonably practical
reason for failure
a/....front no plate not black background white letters
....rear no plate not black background white letters
c/ a registration plate is not fixed vertically or as close to vertical as is reasonably possible
??? maybe thats wht mx5 have those horrible rubber number plate holders at the front on the curved front????
upto to you Russ... looks like copper making your life differcult by knowing the law... might be worth contacting the factory before you pop into the police station
dom
mot book say i quote
section 6.2
method of inspection
on vehicles first registered on or after 1 january 1973 check.
1/ colour characters and background.
2/ that the registration plates are fixed vertically or as close to vertical as reasonably practical
reason for failure
a/....front no plate not black background white letters
....rear no plate not black background white letters
c/ a registration plate is not fixed vertically or as close to vertical as is reasonably possible
??? maybe thats wht mx5 have those horrible rubber number plate holders at the front on the curved front????
upto to you Russ... looks like copper making your life differcult by knowing the law... might be worth contacting the factory before you pop into the police station
dom
suntiger1965 said:
??? maybe thats wht mx5 have those horrible rubber number plate holders at the front on the curved front????
Yep, mine has one, have known 5s to fail with a stick on plate. If it will pass an MOT in the condition the fuzz ticketed it then I would say case closed but then Cheshire traffic fuzz think they are gods.Gassing Station | Ultima | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff