Which Oil? SBC

[Paul.B]

I know this was done a while back but the search system only goes back 2 - years!

So! Which oil for my AS SBC? A baby 400bhp 350cid.


Cheers

Paul.B

[Pb3]

Now there's a question to spark lots of reaction. But for me I would stick with a good quality mineral oil, I have been using Millers 15W/40 for the last couple of years in my 525 AS engine (nearly 13Kmiles without any issue, touching wood now!). I think the best rule is to change it regularly (although the engine is pretty good at that without me having to drain any).

If you are still running with a carb then the more changes the better, I seem to remember being told every 1500 miles was about right. But, the reason for such a short distance would be due to fuel in oil issues, from running very rich!

Lets see what others say...

[Graham-P]

Yep agree with Phil, I use Mobile 15W/40 mineral oil for diesel engines, and replace it regularly.

[Strike1]

Hi Guys

I'm running the A/S 685 hp with carb and I use Mobil 1 ( new TriSyn Technology )SAE 0W-40 Ultimate Performance fully synthetic. Whats the thoughts on this oil .


Thanks Andrew

[Pb3]

Strike1 said:

Hi Guys

I'm running the A/S 685 hp with carb and I use Mobil 1 ( new TriSyn Technology )SAE 0W-40 Ultimate Performance fully synthetic. Whats the thoughts on this oil .


Thanks Andrew

Is that not too 'thin' for an old style SBC, and more to the point far too expensive. With an Accusump I need about 9 litres to refill, then you need to account for the general use/loss unless you are one of the lucky few

[TuxMan]

i,m with Phil , thats very thin oil !!! i used valvoline-R 20-50 which worked well !!!

[Steve_D]

Here we go again with the controversy.
I use Mobil 1 15W 50.
I have done 14,000 miles with two filter changes and no oil change.

Steve

[CanAm Dave]

Steve_D said:

Here we go again with the controversy.
I use Mobil 1 15W 50.
I have done 14,000 miles with two filter changes and no oil change.

Steve

No oil change? Is that cos you run the SBC constant loss system!

Dave

P.S. I use Millers Classic Sport 20/50 semi synthetic. Engine was run in on Millers mineral running in oil.

[Steve_D]

CanAm Dave said:

.....Is that cos you run the SBC constant loss system!

That's a good part of the reason but I also followed a number of threads a while ago that reported an ongoing trial of fully synthetic oil on a high mileage car. Each month a sample of the oil was sent for independent analysis and each time reported back that the oil was in good condition. The thread also talked of the various additives that are in the new oil which burn off or otherwise dissipate as the oil is in use. These additives are acidic so repeated oil changes are renewing the corrosive action.

Mobile 1 being so B expensive is another good reason.

Steve

[popinoz]

Stick with american oils my opinion !KENDALL or VALVOLINE!!.
Kenny coleman from engine data analysis in castleford is the man for american v8,s.Top guy and builds engine for some of the classic saloon racecars and dragcars massively knowlegable as he runs a dragster which has to perform in extreme situations.Had my smallblock on his dyno and blew me away with his knowledge picking bits of hp ie just by changing plug gaps.
Good luck !!oh yeah buy the best oil filter you can afford sometimes forgotten he will help with that.Come to think of it years ago i went to daytona and spoke to some of the pit crew whosaid they didnt touch synthetic oils and stuck to the mineral type not bad when lapping at over 200mph.

[suntiger1965]

ive always been told mineral oil only in older V8's ford or chevy, ive heard of some using semi sythetic but fully???????????? mmm?? not sure about that...

id be very carefull running 0-30 or 5-40 grades... they are too thin... there is little to no lubrication when cold... i had 8 sets of pistons in the drag bike one year with 8 different oils and the shell gemini and mobile 1 gave slight HP increases but boy you should have seen the scoring on the piston skirts after 1 weekend.... kendal race oil 10-40 had next to no scratches at all allong with valvoline...shell normal, total, morrison, morris and castol gtx were all in between... the horse power gains were 2%, but the wear to the engine significant...... this was a race engine that rev'd to 16000 rpm though...

ive used valvoline in all my V8's for the last 20 years with no problems
use 20/50 race oil at the moment and at £20 for 5 litres its cheap enough...

the modern 0-30 grade oils are designed for the modern cars with electroplated liners not the old steel liners of our SBC...Id speak to a V8 guru first just to make sure as im no expert in oil viscosity....

dom

[JoulesCanAm]

[/quote]Engine was run in on Millers mineral running in oil.
[/quote]

I don't know how much of the following is common knowledge, but here’s what I have learnt for the benefit of those who may not be aware;

In the US the additive ZDDP (Zinc Dithiophosphate) was mandated to be reduced to meet emissions standards. The lack of ZDDP in most oils has resulted in numbers of instances of flat tappet cams wearing out the lobes during run in. ZDDP is paramount for run in of flat tappet cams and preferential for everyday use to prevent metal to metal contact area premature wear. You can buy it as an additive if necessary or most oils designed for diesel engine still contain sufficient ZDDP. Many race oils still contain sufficient quantities of ZDDP, but it is worth doing some research to determine which products have what.

Generally synthetic oils are manufactured to a very narrow hydrocarbon chain length; hence have more predictable and controllable properties like higher temperature stability. They have fewer impurities to break down and sludge. They are usually 'slicker' hence the tendency for leaks to appear when switching to synthetic. A new engine should not be run on synthetic as the rings etc. will not seat and the engine will burn oil. The Myth that you cannot mix synthetic with mineral oil is for the most part just that, a myth.

Mineral (Dino) oils as semi-natural (processed to specific weight etc.) products contain varying molecular weight hydrocarbons and impurities that break down and 'coke' more easily at lower temperatures.

80% of the wear on an engine occurs at initial start up, especially if cold weather starts are common. The installation and use of a pre-oiler (Accusump) goes a long way to engine longevity. Pre-oiling should be a must on an engine not started for a significant period (weeks) or after rebuild, manual pre-oilers that require distributor removal are available for such. Depending who you believe some of the friction modifiers that contain molybdenum can help reduce cold start wear.

Oil Filters are just as important as the oil, high flow oil filters (just like high flow air filters) flow more at the cost of filtration i.e. they have a coarser mesh so screen at a larger particle size and capture less. A twin filter set up with filters in parallel doubles the available filtration area and can retain use of the finer mesh filters. Depending on engine type and oil filter some filters have an internal by-pass so that if pressure builds (filter clogged etc.) not all oil pressure is lost. Although this may seem good protection it can be bad from the perspective that unfiltered oil is pumped through the engine and you may not know. At least with non-bypass filter oil pressure drops and you hopefully stop prior to any damage.

I hope this is of some help and congratulations if you got this far!

Edited by JoulesCanAm on Wednesday 3rd December 05:41

[Wilder]

The only sure fire way is to E mail the engine builder and ask them.
To show how different the answers can be, my own 383ci builder says 10W40 mineral oil + Lucas Stabilizer to break the engine in (500 & 1500 miles) and then switch to fully synthetic 10W40 after that.
I wouls always ask the guy or company who built it as no one knows better what oil that engine will work with, to its best potential.
I was told in the SBC 0W40 is way too thin and best avoided,but ask AS.

Edited by Wilder on Wednesday 3rd December 18:08

[Stig]

I swear by Valvoline racing for the SBC (and various track/race cars I've run).

Modern synthetics are great in modern engines, but old school technology seems to work well with good old mineral oil!

[ROWDYRENAULT]

Guys: we have spoken of this before, if the motor has tappet lifters then you better pay attention. Modern oils DO NOT have the correct amount of I think its zink and phopurus (spelling sorry) and should not be used in these motors. The ones suggested in the article about this were Vavoline and Pennsoil racing and Shell rotelo. These heavy metals are not in main stream oils to avoid converter damage. Hope that helps. lee

[Strike1]

Hi Guys

A/S reply to my question ... Mobil 1 ( new TriSyn Technology )SAE 0W-40 Ultimate Performance fully synthetic...............................

I've never used this oil, so don't have many thoughts on it. Synthetic oil can cause cylinder wall glazing and some increased oil consumption.
A lot of people use Mobil 1 with good success. I do believe Mobil1 to be a good product. It's your call. Let me know if you try it. We have used Mobil 1 10W-30 in some of the new Corvette engines with good success.

As an added precaution maybe add additive ZDDP (Zinc Dithiophosphate), question is where to buy it.

Any thoughts..................................

[738 driver]

Used to buy oil in bulk for a group of shops.......I cant swear to it but I seem to recall the rep (with 40+yrs experience) saying oils are only standardized to their 'local market' requirements. This may imply that UK Mobil 1, for example might differ to the US, Aus or SA version of the same product! Maybe this is influenced by the local fuel brew?? (does differ in various international markets). Any experts??

[fastco]

My 2 cents on oil to use...........
Hello if your engine is loaded with a FLAT TAPPET cam here's a heads up on the oil you must now use to avoid cam lobe and lifter failer or exsessive wear during break in & normal driving...ALL major oil companies have now removed fiction modifiers from all mineral based oils.mandated by goverments world wide...zinc & other phosphates / friction reducers have been removed from ALL SM rated ( street legal ) oils it seems these additives attack the cars catalytic conveters....since all new cars are ROLLER CAMMED engines these chemicals are no longer needed
So here is a list of oils & additives you can use & save your cam & its lifters from failer during break in period & driving
1 BRAD PENN / PENN GRADE oil your best choice
2 PENNZOIL GTP RACING OIL
3 VALVOLINE RACING OIL...DO NOT USE VR-1
If you cannot find these oils localy there are additives you may add to regular mineral oils and MUST add to mineral oils during your cam & lifters break in period
1- GM / EOS / Engine Oil Supplement part # 1052367
2- Comp Cams oil additive # 159
3- Crane Cams oil additive
ALL THESE ADDITIVE CONTAIN NEEDED FRICTION MODIFIERS and must be used during cam break in and added to regular mineral oil during oil changes........before 1500 mile mark is reached

-ON SYNTHETIC OILS / AFTER ENGINE BREAK IN ONLY!!!!!!!!! ( 1500+ miles)
We like AMZOIL (RED) racing oil and Joe Gibbs Performance Racing Oil & RED-LINE & ROYAL PURPLE 100% sythn oils
DO NOT USE LOW VISCOSITY INDEX NUMBER OILS ie 0w50 / 5w 20 ect use 10W40 for street
Couple more tricks you can do!
You may also load (SOLID) lifters with a small laser burned hole in heel of lifter, for use with SOLOD cams.. this small hole feeds direct oil under pressure to the cam lobes...greatly reducing cam & lifter wear.
An other trick for hyd cam & lifters is to have your machine shop cut a small vertical groove in all lifter bores , this oil groove will supply extra oil to lifter bottoms & cam lobes again greatly reducing cam & lobe wear ....... Cheers! Dr.Dee


PS: PLAN B.... install a hyd or solid roller cam in your engine....and these race oils or additives & oil'n tricks will not be needed . With ROLLER cam'd engines use mineral oil only and additive 1st 1500 miles.. & then go 100% pure synthetic oil.. we recommend 10W40 for SBC street & track
use........ BUT ASK YOUR ENGINE BUILDER FOR THERE RECOMMENDATION ON YOUR ENGINE.
Cheers! Dr.Dee

Edited by fastco on Monday 8th December 03:15

Edited by fastco on Monday 8th December 05:58

[738 driver]

Fastco said.........since all new cars are ROLLER CAMMED engines these chemicals are no longer needed.

There are very few roller-tappet/follower engines produced in Europe!
How does this affect our brew?

Euro/UK oil expert required.

[fastco]

Strike1 said:

Hi Guys

A/S reply to my question ... Mobil 1 ( new TriSyn Technology )SAE 0W-40 Ultimate Performance fully synthetic...............................

I've never used this oil, so don't have many thoughts on it. Synthetic oil can cause cylinder wall glazing and some increased oil consumption.
A lot of people use Mobil 1 with good success. I do believe Mobil1 to be a good product. It's your call. Let me know if you try it. We have used Mobil 1 10W-30 in some of the new Corvette engines with good success.

As an added precaution maybe add additive ZDDP (Zinc Dithiophosphate), question is where to buy it.

Any thoughts..................................

Hello for your ZINC fix.... use Comp Cams engine break in & run lube product # 159... it's got all the added zinc & chemical & minerals agents your flat tappet engine will need when using mineral based oils in your engine. Cheers! Dr.Dee
PS: We use it when during all engine dyno testing & engine break ins.
[URL=http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/fastco/?action=view&current=ASHLEYS452BHP383ontheDYNO.flv][/URL]

Edited by fastco on Tuesday 9th December 14:54