*NEW* AdviceThinking of Buying and Building an Ultima GTR720
Discussion
Hi all new to this forum.. Thinking of building an Ultima GTR720... Not mechanically minded or had any experience with mechanics before. Is this possible realistically and what total costing (new parts from ultima)?
As we cant afford to stump up the mentioned 60k in one go we will be buying the stages as and when we can afford them.. Could somebody give us a breakdown on what stages and what parts are needed and costing.. (will more than likely buy all parts from Ultima). Ideally looking to build car over 2 years- if affordable
Few other questions:
We are ideally looking to drive around Europe once built-would this be unrealistic?
What size fuel tank does the ultima have?
Average fuel conusmption for a 720 hp engine
prefer to use the getrag 6 speed gearbox as it is positioned in the middle. Where can you buy these from? Seen silly prices for around 6k.
Again, as new any other help or advice appreciated..
Not even seen one of these cars in the flesh yet lol.. Going to Car show bank holiday monday. just the idea that it holds so many world records for its performance has sold it, as well as the fact the enjoyment (hopefully) building.
As we cant afford to stump up the mentioned 60k in one go we will be buying the stages as and when we can afford them.. Could somebody give us a breakdown on what stages and what parts are needed and costing.. (will more than likely buy all parts from Ultima). Ideally looking to build car over 2 years- if affordable
Few other questions:
We are ideally looking to drive around Europe once built-would this be unrealistic?
What size fuel tank does the ultima have?
Average fuel conusmption for a 720 hp engine
prefer to use the getrag 6 speed gearbox as it is positioned in the middle. Where can you buy these from? Seen silly prices for around 6k.
Again, as new any other help or advice appreciated..
Not even seen one of these cars in the flesh yet lol.. Going to Car show bank holiday monday. just the idea that it holds so many world records for its performance has sold it, as well as the fact the enjoyment (hopefully) building.
Arrange a factory test run Chris.
50-70K should build a good spec car.
For best all round use and unless engines are your thing aim to go with the later style LS engines as opposed to the SBC's. (SBC type is fitted in the 720 factory model)
I would think 12-15K will get you well on with the initial build.
Maybe have a look at Tony's build site.....ultimagtr640.com, as this is perhaps a good example of what can be done even without years of previous mechanical experience.
50-70K should build a good spec car.
For best all round use and unless engines are your thing aim to go with the later style LS engines as opposed to the SBC's. (SBC type is fitted in the 720 factory model)
I would think 12-15K will get you well on with the initial build.
Maybe have a look at Tony's build site.....ultimagtr640.com, as this is perhaps a good example of what can be done even without years of previous mechanical experience.
When asked if you need to be a mechanic to build an Ultima I normally say no provided you have very good DIY and odd jobing skills. If you don't have these skills you would be better of starting with a Seven type kit where your financial commitment is not so high should you find your skills are not coming together.
I would also caution going straight into a 720 unless you already have some years of experience with high power vehicles. You say you were lured into this by the specification but have never seen one so I suspect that experience is not there.
I think you would be looking at about 3 years if it is all new to you.
Steve
I would also caution going straight into a 720 unless you already have some years of experience with high power vehicles. You say you were lured into this by the specification but have never seen one so I suspect that experience is not there.
I think you would be looking at about 3 years if it is all new to you.
Steve
Yes fair point about the exchange rate, hopefully it will be better when im at the point of buying the engine.
The getrag gearbox as far as i was aware can handle bhp of upto 1600bhp? So not sure why it could not handle the powe?
But of course you guys know your stuff.. so more comments about gearbox appreciated. (i know a long way off but nice to know)
Excuse my ignorance but i know nothing about engines.. Whats the differences between an SBC and ls engine (one is newer than other?)
I can pretty much turn my hand to anything using logic and common sense albeit never done anything mechanical. Dont fancy building anything other than the Ultima, wouldnt like to build a car for the sake of it for experience.
Im use to driving a Toyota Supra Twin Turbo, Dyno tested at around 400bhp. I will miss the sound of turbos if getting an ultima.
3 years give more time to save the pennies whilst building lol
Yup we will be going Stoneleigh kit car on the Monday, most people seem to be going on the Sunday... Will just be admiring your cars more than pestering you for advice at this stage lol. and of course seeing if its the car for us
(so try yer best to impress us lololol)
The getrag gearbox as far as i was aware can handle bhp of upto 1600bhp? So not sure why it could not handle the powe?
But of course you guys know your stuff.. so more comments about gearbox appreciated. (i know a long way off but nice to know)
Excuse my ignorance but i know nothing about engines.. Whats the differences between an SBC and ls engine (one is newer than other?)
I can pretty much turn my hand to anything using logic and common sense albeit never done anything mechanical. Dont fancy building anything other than the Ultima, wouldnt like to build a car for the sake of it for experience.
Im use to driving a Toyota Supra Twin Turbo, Dyno tested at around 400bhp. I will miss the sound of turbos if getting an ultima.
3 years give more time to save the pennies whilst building lol
Yup we will be going Stoneleigh kit car on the Monday, most people seem to be going on the Sunday... Will just be admiring your cars more than pestering you for advice at this stage lol. and of course seeing if its the car for us
(so try yer best to impress us lololol)Edited by chris_shirl on Saturday 25th April 14:19
Hi
Great to hear that your thinking of joign the Ultima GTR owners club.
I must say having read your responses if your experience of power is based upon your turbo'd supra at 400bhp. You may want to reconsider your engine choice. Ive been out over the past two weeks in several Ultimas, all of which teh owners and builders are on this here forum, and all of them will happily tell you that at around 550 / 600hp you really do not need anything more. There are way more intelligent guys on here that im sure will tell you just how much faster a 400hp Ult will be compared the Supra. Weight saving, setup etc.
Before deciding on anything including gearbox start at the beginning test drive then on to stage 1 etc. Engine and gearbox are some of the last things you buy. However your build will be based around them so keep an idea of what your afert in your mind. Trust me like so many others, what you think you will choose at the beginning will be some way off your final decisions. Im sure we all initially wanted a 720BHP LS7 world beater until someone showed us exactly what 550 could do. That first passenger journey, really the steepest learnign curve you'll ever experience.
Good luck and enjoy.
Great to hear that your thinking of joign the Ultima GTR owners club.
I must say having read your responses if your experience of power is based upon your turbo'd supra at 400bhp. You may want to reconsider your engine choice. Ive been out over the past two weeks in several Ultimas, all of which teh owners and builders are on this here forum, and all of them will happily tell you that at around 550 / 600hp you really do not need anything more. There are way more intelligent guys on here that im sure will tell you just how much faster a 400hp Ult will be compared the Supra. Weight saving, setup etc.
Before deciding on anything including gearbox start at the beginning test drive then on to stage 1 etc. Engine and gearbox are some of the last things you buy. However your build will be based around them so keep an idea of what your afert in your mind. Trust me like so many others, what you think you will choose at the beginning will be some way off your final decisions. Im sure we all initially wanted a 720BHP LS7 world beater until someone showed us exactly what 550 could do. That first passenger journey, really the steepest learnign curve you'll ever experience.
Good luck and enjoy.
Some times its better to step back and have a look properly than just head first in the deep end..... For a road car they are very few people that can get 100% out of a 500hp engine on the road...
I will try to explain,
The Ultima is one fast , very fast car...If you had 300hp you could hit the gas pedal and still be seriously quick but still with some chance of loosing control over bumps etc etc.... 500 hp and you have to respect it and in lower gears will feed in the power rather than floor it hard like a modern day car with traction control etc etc. 720hp well thats repect to a different level and unless you are used to full racing cars you will either take ages to master or be scared of it. Running a car in a straight line or on a track is completely different to running it on an open road.
I could drive a porsche 996tt a lot faster on our british roads because of traction control/stability control/ABS etc etc etc and millions of pounds of development which a large manufacturer puts into developing the car. Also if Gods sake you had a spill you have airbags, crumple zones etc etc so you feel invincable.
If you want advise , fit the car with an LS2 or 3 engine giving you 28mpg and 400hp(which is still seriously quick), get used to it and if you want more power, tune it of fit a low pressure blower or turbos.....See Canam Daves .....
that way you will learn the car and its capabilities and still enjoy it in the sun.....
As for touring europe....How light can you pack.
Dom
I will try to explain,
The Ultima is one fast , very fast car...If you had 300hp you could hit the gas pedal and still be seriously quick but still with some chance of loosing control over bumps etc etc.... 500 hp and you have to respect it and in lower gears will feed in the power rather than floor it hard like a modern day car with traction control etc etc. 720hp well thats repect to a different level and unless you are used to full racing cars you will either take ages to master or be scared of it. Running a car in a straight line or on a track is completely different to running it on an open road.
I could drive a porsche 996tt a lot faster on our british roads because of traction control/stability control/ABS etc etc etc and millions of pounds of development which a large manufacturer puts into developing the car. Also if Gods sake you had a spill you have airbags, crumple zones etc etc so you feel invincable.
If you want advise , fit the car with an LS2 or 3 engine giving you 28mpg and 400hp(which is still seriously quick), get used to it and if you want more power, tune it of fit a low pressure blower or turbos.....See Canam Daves .....
that way you will learn the car and its capabilities and still enjoy it in the sun.....
As for touring europe....How light can you pack.
Dom
Thanks for the advice. I realise the Ulitima is going to be much faster than a supra hence why i want one lol. The supra i have has no traction control either as it has been disabled. Of course im not nieve, i expect it to be a difficult car to drive especially in traffic. If I wanted 'just' a fast car i would buy a Noble, or porsche gt3, but i want something different.
I understand that i wont be able to get the full potential from the 720hp engine.. but it would be nice to have it. I would like to do track days at some point as well.
I appreciate the advice about engine power, at the moment ive got my heart set on the full 720hp.. of course this might change whether due to finance or being more conservative. I dont know the first thing about engines so to convert an engine to turbos in future would probabbly cost as much as it would just going straight to the 720 lol.
mmm, i guess packing light could be a problem with the missus. any space behind the seats? i know you can have 2 side pods for luggage are these just to fit a rucksack?
I understand that i wont be able to get the full potential from the 720hp engine.. but it would be nice to have it
. I would like to do track days at some point as well.I appreciate the advice about engine power, at the moment ive got my heart set on the full 720hp.. of course this might change whether due to finance or being more conservative. I dont know the first thing about engines so to convert an engine to turbos in future would probabbly cost as much as it would just going straight to the 720 lol.
mmm, i guess packing light could be a problem with the missus. any space behind the seats? i know you can have 2 side pods for luggage are these just to fit a rucksack?
DHGTR said:
Steve_D said:
You won't get a rucksack in a side pod and there is no room behind the seats.
Steve
Thats not quite true is Steve, i got a 2 litre bottle of water and rag behind my drivers seat Steve
V8Dom said:
DHGTR said:
Steve_D said:
You won't get a rucksack in a side pod and there is no room behind the seats.
Steve
Thats not quite true is Steve, i got a 2 litre bottle of water and rag behind my drivers seat Steve
Hi Chris,
There's nothing to stop you building now and deciding on the engine later, the LS engines are a newer and lighter version of the traditional Small Block Chevy (SBC). SBC's were cast iron blocks and LS's are alloy but the mounts (AFAIK) are the same so you can buy a chassis now and worry about the engine later. LS's tend to be fuel injected rather than SBC's which are usually carb'd, different people have their views on which is best, me, for what it's worth I prefer injection. Search this forum ot google for "Kinsler" to see some very interesting kit.
There's nothing wrong with either transaxle, I'm not sure what you mean by 'in the middle' when you refer to the Getrag though. In Ultima's the transaxles hang off the back of the car rather than in the midle like they do in Porsches, (to do this they run upside down) and they are pretty much in the middle of the car between the wheels.
Touring - I can't comment on yet but that's what I intend to do with mine when it's finished. I think there's a bit of space in either side pod a smidgeon behind the seats and you might get a little behind the passenger footrest, apart from that, not a lot else!
Economy wise, well, you'll hear from the guys that we don't buy them for economy and I suspect your 400bhp supra will be similar to the mpg you'll get from an Ultima thanks to a weight benefit. With an LS7 I'm guessing 20ish, an LS1/2/3 about 25, more on a run and you'll be lucky to see 20 out of a carb'd SBC. Some hot engines do much less....
Good luck, I look forward to seeing you on the Monday at Stoneleigh!
There's nothing to stop you building now and deciding on the engine later, the LS engines are a newer and lighter version of the traditional Small Block Chevy (SBC). SBC's were cast iron blocks and LS's are alloy but the mounts (AFAIK) are the same so you can buy a chassis now and worry about the engine later. LS's tend to be fuel injected rather than SBC's which are usually carb'd, different people have their views on which is best, me, for what it's worth I prefer injection. Search this forum ot google for "Kinsler" to see some very interesting kit.
There's nothing wrong with either transaxle, I'm not sure what you mean by 'in the middle' when you refer to the Getrag though. In Ultima's the transaxles hang off the back of the car rather than in the midle like they do in Porsches, (to do this they run upside down) and they are pretty much in the middle of the car between the wheels.
Touring - I can't comment on yet but that's what I intend to do with mine when it's finished. I think there's a bit of space in either side pod a smidgeon behind the seats and you might get a little behind the passenger footrest, apart from that, not a lot else!
Economy wise, well, you'll hear from the guys that we don't buy them for economy
and I suspect your 400bhp supra will be similar to the mpg you'll get from an Ultima thanks to a weight benefit. With an LS7 I'm guessing 20ish, an LS1/2/3 about 25, more on a run and you'll be lucky to see 20 out of a carb'd SBC. Some hot engines do much less.... Good luck, I look forward to seeing you on the Monday at Stoneleigh!
Good to hear it is possible to tour europe and we would definately be staying in hotels, dont think the Ultima would be that comfy
What i meant with the gearbox 'in the middle'; that the getrag as far as im aware is positioned in the normal driving position i.e gear lever to the left of driver. G50 box dont really fancy changing gear on my right, guess you would get use to it. I would go for whatever gearbox you guys rate is the best though.
Yea fuel economy isnt great on the Supra might get about 25mpg if drive slow lol.. more like 15 at best with foot down and i only feed it on super unleaded arghhh.
How many litres of petrol does the ultima tanks hold (it does have 2 fuel tanks?)
Looking forward to next Monday
What i meant with the gearbox 'in the middle'; that the getrag as far as im aware is positioned in the normal driving position i.e gear lever to the left of driver. G50 box dont really fancy changing gear on my right, guess you would get use to it. I would go for whatever gearbox you guys rate is the best though.
Yea fuel economy isnt great on the Supra might get about 25mpg if drive slow lol.. more like 15 at best with foot down and i only feed it on super unleaded arghhh.
How many litres of petrol does the ultima tanks hold (it does have 2 fuel tanks?)
Looking forward to next Monday
chris_shirl said:
Good to hear it is possible to tour europe and we would definately be staying in hotels, dont think the Ultima would be that comfy
What i meant with the gearbox 'in the middle'; that the getrag as far as im aware is positioned in the normal driving position i.e gear lever to the left of driver. G50 box dont really fancy changing gear on my right, guess you would get use to it. I would go for whatever gearbox you guys rate is the best though.
Yea fuel economy isnt great on the Supra might get about 25mpg if drive slow lol.. more like 15 at best with foot down and i only feed it on super unleaded arghhh.
How many litres of petrol does the ultima tanks hold (it does have 2 fuel tanks?)
Looking forward to next Monday
ultima is limited on space but you ll be supprised how much stuff you can get in........What i meant with the gearbox 'in the middle'; that the getrag as far as im aware is positioned in the normal driving position i.e gear lever to the left of driver. G50 box dont really fancy changing gear on my right, guess you would get use to it. I would go for whatever gearbox you guys rate is the best though.
Yea fuel economy isnt great on the Supra might get about 25mpg if drive slow lol.. more like 15 at best with foot down and i only feed it on super unleaded arghhh.
How many litres of petrol does the ultima tanks hold (it does have 2 fuel tanks?)
Looking forward to next Monday
720 AS engine will do about 12-14 on a gentle run and 5 or so when booted.
LS2 which is about 400hp will do 28 on a run
if you run belt driven turbos(latest superchargers) then a run with low boost will give good mmpg but when you floor it you have loads on HP....hence everyone going the LS route...
dom
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