Stainless Lug Nuts

[Builder]

There seems to be an interest in stainless lug nuts. Previous post indicate the price of stainless has been an issue. Please post if you would be interested in a set.

If you have any pricing history, that would be helpful. I have no idea what is considered a fair price. In my new career, I am working with hundreds of machine shops and metal suppliers across the USA. Maybe we can get reasonable price for quantity.

-- Scott

PS: If anyone's interested, I can source TI also.

[Untamed_Muscle]

TI would be awesome as I will have a decent amount of TI bolts on the car from leftovers at the shop! Let me know price and eta on shipping....thx

James

[Steve_D]

Stainless will do me.
No price as I have not found anyone who wants to do them.

Steve

[Builder]

Stainless

Steve_D

Titanium

Untamed_Muscle

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[Davrianman]

Stainless

Steve_D
Davrianman

Titanium

Untamed_Muscle

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[V8 Vum]

Davrianman said:

===Stainless===
Steve_D
Davrianman
V8VUM

Titanium

Untamed_Muscle

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[V8Dom]

V8 Vum said:

Davrianman said:

===Stainless===
Steve_D
Davrianman
V8VUM
V8dom

Titanium

Untamed_Muscle

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also whats postage to UK??

[Builder]

V8Dom said:

V8 Vum said:

Davrianman said:

===Stainless===
Steve_D
Davrianman
V8VUM
V8dom

Titanium

Untamed_Muscle

Stainless	Titanium
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also whats postage to UK??

Meeting tomorrow to discuss all wheel topics. Should have a post on Friday or Saturday.

The wheel weights are estimated at approx 23/18 lbs. with AL hubs. Stock wheels are 27.5/22 lbs. Large percentage in unsprung weight. Billet MG (ZK-60A) and TI fasteners would be considerably less weight, but cost goes way up.

Edited by Builder on Wednesday 3rd June 15:40

[qwick]

Titanium

Untamed_Muscle

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[Builder]

303 SS Lug Nut - $200 set of 20.
303 SS Washer - $90 set of 20.

Shipping Weight:

To calculate shipping cost from Reno, NV 89511 USA
7 lbs. for Lug Nuts only
10 lbs. for Lugs and Washers

The process starts with mill-finish, 7/8" cold finished annealed, hex bar stock. It's cut to length, lathe turned to the proper OD (lower nut section) and the bottom edge is chamfered. Then it’s drilled and tapped.

The finish on the turned section is RMS-16, which is about as fine as possible from a lathe. The finish on the hex section is mill-finish and cannot be expected to be perfect.

The hex section could be milled, but that process requires starting with a 1” bar and adding a milling operation to cut the hex end, which would be considerably more expensive in machine time, expendables, and material.

We have to order 5 sets, or we can't cost the same due to material usage.

[Davrianman]

Would it be possible to get a polished finish on the nuts? If so then definately have a set off you. The ones on my old TVR Cerbera really finished the car off.

Cheers,

Mart

[CanAm Dave]

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[SlackBlevens]

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[Builder]

Davrianman said:

Would it be possible to get a polished finish on the nuts?...

Polished nuts? Sorry, guys. Had to say it.

Yes, but I think they will want to charge for the polishing. I will find out...

[Builder]

Untamed_Muscle said:

TI would be awesome as I will have a decent amount of TI bolts on the car from leftovers at the shop! Let me know price and eta on shipping....thx

James

James, I am not having much luck with TI. There are a couple of reasons. The primary reason is machinists don't want to make them for application where the the nut/bolt is removed more than a couple of times. Galling is a big issue. In aerospace, apparently they throw TI fasteners way after one use in many cases. I got one quote for $68 each!!!! Please see the notes on galling below.

[Builder]

Before we go down the stainless steel road, we should all take note of the following information before we have these made. This is from the website of a SS fastener manufacturer. If, after reading this, you change your mind about stainless steel lug nuts, please remove your name from the list. The next step will be to place a deposit...

A few times each year we receive calls from fastener suppliers who are in conflict with their customer over the quality of stainless steel bolts and nuts. The customer's complaint is that during installation the bolts are twisting off and/or the bolt's threads are seizing to the nut's thread. The frustration of the supplier is that all required inspections of the fasteners indicate they are acceptable, but the fact remains that they are not working.

This problem is called "thread galling." According to the Industrial Fastener Institute's (IFI) 6th Edition Standards Book (page B-28),

Thread galling seems to be the most prevalent with fasteners made of stainless steel, aluminum, titanium, and other alloys which self-generate an oxide surface film for corrosion protection. During fastener tightening, as pressure builds between the contacting and sliding thread surfaces, protective oxides are broken, possibly wiped off, and interface metal high points shear or lock together. This cumulative clogging-shearing-locking action causes increasing adhesion. In the extreme, galling leads to seizing - the actual freezing together of the threads. If tightening is continued, the fastener can be twisted off or its threads ripped out.

This type of galling is referred to, in their technical guide, as "cold welding." Anyone who has seen a bolt and nut with this problem understands the graphic nature of this description.

The IFI give three suggestions for dealing with the problem of thread galling in the use of stainless steel fasteners:

1. Slowing down the installation RPM speed will frequently reduce, or sometimes solve completely, the problem. As the installation RPM increases, the heat generated during tightening increases. As the heat increases, so does the tendency for the occurrence of thread galling.
2. Lubricating the internal and/or external threads frequently eliminates thread galling. The suggested lubricants should contain substantial amounts of molybdenum disulfide (moly), graphite, mica, or talc. Some proprietary, extreme pressure waxes may also be effective. You must be aware of the end use of the fasteners before settling on a lubricant. Stainless steel is frequently used in food related applications, which may make some lubricants unacceptable. Lubricants can be applied at the point of assembly or pre-applied as a batch process similar to plating. Several chemical companies offer anti-galling lubricants. One such source, EM Corporation, suggests their Permaslik¨ RAC product for use at the point of assembly. They suggest Everlube¨ 620C for batch, pre-applying to stainless steel fasteners.
3. Using different stainless alloy grades for the bolt and the nut reduces galling. The key here is the mating of materials having different hardnesses. If one of the components is 316 and the other is 304 they're less likely to gall than if they're both of the same alloy grade. This is because different alloys work-harden at different rates.

Another factor affecting thread galling in stainless steel fastener applications is thread roughness. The rougher the thread flanks, the greater the likelihood galling will occur. In an application where the bolt is galling with the internal thread, the bolt is usually presumed to be at fault, because it is the breaking component. Generally, it is the internal thread that is causing the problem instead of the bolt. This is because most bolt threads are smoother than most nut threads. Bolt threads are generally rolled, therefore, their thread flanks are relatively smooth. Internal threads are always cut, producing rougher thread flanks than those of the bolts they are mating with. The reason galling problems are inconsistent is probably due largely to the inconsistencies in the tapping operation. Rougher than normal internal threads may be the result of the use of dull taps or the tapping may have been done at an inappropriately high RPM.

Fortunately, stainless steel bolt and nut galling problems do not occur everyday, but when they do it usually creates a customer crisis. Knowledge of why this occurs and how to remedy it can save the supplier much grief and many headaches.

Below are the questions that should be asked and the suggestions that should be made immediately when you are confronted with a customer's complaint about thread galling:

1. Are you using the same driver RPM you have used in the past to install these stainless fasteners?
If they say they are driving them faster than in the past or if they say this is a new application, suggest they immediately try slowing the driver RPM and see if the problem goes away. In general, a stainless bolt of a given size should be driven slower than a steel bolt of the same size.

2. Are the bolts and/or internal threads lubricated?
If they say, "no", suggest they try lubricating the bolts and/or internal threads with one of the lubricants listed above. If this eliminates the galling, you might want to batch lubricate the remainder of the order to eliminate the extra work of applying lubricant at the point of assembly.

In applications where galling is a repetitive problem, it is advisable to supply the fasteners with pre-applied lubrication to eliminate future problems

3. Are you using the same grade of stainless steel for the bolts and nuts?
If the answer is, "yes", you can suggest changing one or the other to a different grade.

Be sure the suggested grade meets their corrosion needs and changing the material does not cause a procurement problem.

When thread galling occurs in stainless steel bolt and nut applications, don't panic. Try the suggestions listed above. One, or a combination of these, will probably resolve the problem immediately.

[V8 Vum]

As with std Wheel nuts, I believe that most mechanics - ne Vehicle Technicalishins use copper grease or moly to lub the thread and I assume that same would be for SS Nuts?

I would also say that I would be more concerned that the quality and tortional strength of the Stainless nut is suitable for the application? Also that the Stainless item is as good, or superior in the metal fatigue department? Scott...can you find out?

I would hate where I saw a fat wheel overtaking, wondering what poor sod has lost it, then finding out...

... it was ME!

This actually happened to my mother...

Keith

Edited by V8 Vum on Monday 15th June 14:32

Edited by V8 Vum on Monday 15th June 14:35

[Builder]

V8 Vum said:

...I would hate where I saw a fat wheel overtaking, wondering what poor sod has lost it, then finding out...... it was ME!...

Ha! I think I understand. Let me see what I can find out. I don't know what 'regular' lug nuts are made from. 303 stainless has a tensile strength of 100,000 psi.

Edited by Builder on Wednesday 17th June 03:45