Discussion
Hi Graham,
I am about to place the cockpit back on my build and got to thinking about your heat problem. Not only have you got heater pipes coming up from the rt side-pod, but on both sides you have the main ally coolant run pipe from the rad backwards, and unless this has been lagged (not suggesting it should)then the hot air generated in the fore-part of the sidepods will inevitably waft up and collect under the dash I suggest?
Now...I was wondering why there is a manufactured gap/hole in the top of the sidepods in the first place (which matches the area which is covered by the wings of the cockpit by the dash). OK , so the various pipes come out to the heater here as does the wiring etc, and of course it is useful to have access to these areas during the build.
BUT, once the electrics and pipes are in place could we not make a couple of ally plates, much like the ally panel, and have this 'screwed' to the top thus covering the hole? You could also 'insulate' the plate. Once in place with neat tightfitting holes for the pipes etc, this would form a totally sealed solution to all that heat coming out from the side-pods?
Is there anything I am missing? It might mean a rearrangement of the fusing area, but I am not at that point yet so can't comment?
What are your thoughts?
Cheers
keith
I am about to place the cockpit back on my build and got to thinking about your heat problem. Not only have you got heater pipes coming up from the rt side-pod, but on both sides you have the main ally coolant run pipe from the rad backwards, and unless this has been lagged (not suggesting it should)then the hot air generated in the fore-part of the sidepods will inevitably waft up and collect under the dash I suggest?
Now...I was wondering why there is a manufactured gap/hole in the top of the sidepods in the first place (which matches the area which is covered by the wings of the cockpit by the dash). OK , so the various pipes come out to the heater here as does the wiring etc, and of course it is useful to have access to these areas during the build.
BUT, once the electrics and pipes are in place could we not make a couple of ally plates, much like the ally panel, and have this 'screwed' to the top thus covering the hole? You could also 'insulate' the plate. Once in place with neat tightfitting holes for the pipes etc, this would form a totally sealed solution to all that heat coming out from the side-pods?
Is there anything I am missing? It might mean a rearrangement of the fusing area, but I am not at that point yet so can't comment?
What are your thoughts?
Cheers
keith
Hi Keith
Yep the two panels at the top of those 'triangle' chassis rails was the way I was thinking as well.
So far I have:
Lagged the radiator pipes through the luggage pods with exhaust wrap during the build but still a lot of heat transfer comes throught the pods.
Covered the side panels with sound deadener and heat mat, doubled where the pipes are close to the cockpit panels.
Heat wrapped the heater and air con hoses.
Installed a fresh air duct from front brake duct into cockpit via a blower motor, but has made little difference, feet still get hot.
Disconnected the heater all together.
When I take the center section off this winter (if I still have it)I think I need to seal the heater unit (somehow!) and try to feed the heater blower motor with this fresh air, that way it won't be compromised by blowing warm cockpit air around. Then seal the top of the chassis rails with the panels.
I'm not too sure if you will have these heat problems with a GTR as the air con should be more effective in an enclosed space.
I'm not sure if I'm being too picky but I seem to be the only one moaning about this problem, or are others (CanAm owners) just accepting it and putting up with it??
Graham
Yep the two panels at the top of those 'triangle' chassis rails was the way I was thinking as well.
So far I have:
Lagged the radiator pipes through the luggage pods with exhaust wrap during the build but still a lot of heat transfer comes throught the pods.
Covered the side panels with sound deadener and heat mat, doubled where the pipes are close to the cockpit panels.
Heat wrapped the heater and air con hoses.
Installed a fresh air duct from front brake duct into cockpit via a blower motor, but has made little difference, feet still get hot.
Disconnected the heater all together.
When I take the center section off this winter (if I still have it)I think I need to seal the heater unit (somehow!) and try to feed the heater blower motor with this fresh air, that way it won't be compromised by blowing warm cockpit air around. Then seal the top of the chassis rails with the panels.
I'm not too sure if you will have these heat problems with a GTR as the air con should be more effective in an enclosed space.
I'm not sure if I'm being too picky but I seem to be the only one moaning about this problem, or are others (CanAm owners) just accepting it and putting up with it??
Graham
Hi Keith,
I have taken similar steps during my build with the insulation of the side pods and the heater hoses. I ran the heater hoses below the side pod next to the radiator pipes. I then insulated the pods and I also added an airvent into the pod from the aircon system! Don't know if it's going to work, but the idea was to keep my beer cool on the way to LeMans!!
Only thing I didn't do was insulate the radiator pipes as others have had problems with this (I believe...).
I also insulated the sides of the ali panels to try to stop heat radiating into the cockpit area.
I have left the hole at the back of my pod open in the hope that air from the aircon system will blow in and then exit out the back of the pod. How about doing this but using ducted air from the front of the car? Just a thought. It may be quite effective to cool the sidepods as they will always be a heat sink with all the hoses and piped running near them...
Cheers,
Mart
I have taken similar steps during my build with the insulation of the side pods and the heater hoses. I ran the heater hoses below the side pod next to the radiator pipes. I then insulated the pods and I also added an airvent into the pod from the aircon system! Don't know if it's going to work, but the idea was to keep my beer cool on the way to LeMans!!
Only thing I didn't do was insulate the radiator pipes as others have had problems with this (I believe...).
I also insulated the sides of the ali panels to try to stop heat radiating into the cockpit area.
I have left the hole at the back of my pod open in the hope that air from the aircon system will blow in and then exit out the back of the pod. How about doing this but using ducted air from the front of the car? Just a thought. It may be quite effective to cool the sidepods as they will always be a heat sink with all the hoses and piped running near them...
Cheers,
Mart
Trying to think logically chaps...
...the sources of heat are:
1. the heater pipes
2. the radiator pipes
3. In addition the temp may also be affected by the aircon pipes (+ -?)
4. the rear engine compartment
5. sun through the windscreen and sidescreens (where applicable)
So..In reverse order
5. you can't practically do much for except for covering the screen when parked. I am not sure if it is much different from a normal car in strong sunlight.
4. We already have many of us heat-shielding the rear bulkhead, and some also insulating between the alli skins, and some further double-skinning the top part and sandwiching with heat barrier and sound insulation...then then there is the good-old carpet all up the inside rear of the cockpit.
3 and 1 - Why not use B&Q 15 and 20 ml foam pipe insulation to suit?
2. Well, there seems to be some conflict of opinion as to whether directly insulating the alli radiator piping is a good idea or not..and the NO brigade may be right for the older-style SBC, however I am not sure in ref to the LS series with an ally block.
3 2 and 1. My solution? How effective it is remains to be seen, but I created an insulated Aluminium 'channel' inside my 'bins' to run the aircaon as well as the heater pipes, with the good old insulation wrapped all round the outside part of each bin to hedge agains the raditor piping heat perculating into the storage area. I also went belt-and-braces for the exterior of the ally cocpit side-skins with first lizard paint, and then a layer of stick-on insulation.
Now, as I see it, I can't do much more apart from:
Creating heavily insulated ally covers for each 'hole' to CAP the sidepods under the dash where the heater/aircon pipes exit the pods. Thus the cocpit should be effectively sealed! (I must remember to add a canister of oxygen, just in case!;)
And then, I will consider the addition of a fresh-air feed into the cab from the frontal area. (Then watch the doors blow off at 100mph!
)
Keith
...the sources of heat are:
1. the heater pipes
2. the radiator pipes
3. In addition the temp may also be affected by the aircon pipes (+ -?)
4. the rear engine compartment
5. sun through the windscreen and sidescreens (where applicable)
So..In reverse order
5. you can't practically do much for except for covering the screen when parked. I am not sure if it is much different from a normal car in strong sunlight.
4. We already have many of us heat-shielding the rear bulkhead, and some also insulating between the alli skins, and some further double-skinning the top part and sandwiching with heat barrier and sound insulation...then then there is the good-old carpet all up the inside rear of the cockpit.
3 and 1 - Why not use B&Q 15 and 20 ml foam pipe insulation to suit?
2. Well, there seems to be some conflict of opinion as to whether directly insulating the alli radiator piping is a good idea or not..and the NO brigade may be right for the older-style SBC, however I am not sure in ref to the LS series with an ally block.
3 2 and 1. My solution? How effective it is remains to be seen, but I created an insulated Aluminium 'channel' inside my 'bins' to run the aircaon as well as the heater pipes, with the good old insulation wrapped all round the outside part of each bin to hedge agains the raditor piping heat perculating into the storage area. I also went belt-and-braces for the exterior of the ally cocpit side-skins with first lizard paint, and then a layer of stick-on insulation.
Now, as I see it, I can't do much more apart from:
Creating heavily insulated ally covers for each 'hole' to CAP the sidepods under the dash where the heater/aircon pipes exit the pods. Thus the cocpit should be effectively sealed! (I must remember to add a canister of oxygen, just in case!;)
And then, I will consider the addition of a fresh-air feed into the cab from the frontal area. (Then watch the doors blow off at 100mph!
)Keith
Agreed lots of heat sources and plenty of work possible to reduce their effect.
I fitted a fresh air vent from one of the side grills at the front of the clip. This has a control valve so it can be opened or closed and points at the fan inlet so that it gets distributed.
I find this and the A/C mitigates the heat rising from other sources apart from the radiated heat through the rear bulkhead and into the seat back. If I did another Ultima I would route A/C to the seat backs.
Steve
I fitted a fresh air vent from one of the side grills at the front of the clip. This has a control valve so it can be opened or closed and points at the fan inlet so that it gets distributed.
I find this and the A/C mitigates the heat rising from other sources apart from the radiated heat through the rear bulkhead and into the seat back. If I did another Ultima I would route A/C to the seat backs.
Steve
I wrapped the water pipes with header wrap. Insulated the sides pods, insulated the firewall between the nose compartment and the interior, injected high strenghth foam in all of the double walled areas such as the floor and lower fire wall, deleted the heater all together( I live in Southren California I DON'T NEED NO STINKING HEATER) and I run a film on the top 6 inchs of the front screen and I run a 80 degree c thermostat on a 565 hp ls motor. Net result; 100 degree day the car runs at a reasonable 75F on the interior water temp runs at 80c going down the road a long stop light will see the engine temp rise to perhaps 84c. The one complaint-observation is that if the car is run to operating temp and then shut down for 10 to 15 minutes the A/C condensor gets rully heat soaked and it takes a few minutes of running down the road to get the A/C to be effective again. Next project is to add film to the top 3 to 4 inchs on the side windows. If I had a bigger batteray I would consider running the condensor fan for a few minutes before startup with the bonnet up but I rather by hot then have a dead batteray.
GTRMikie said:
Excuse my ignorance, why insulate the heater pipes? With the valve turned off, my pipes don't get hot.
Reason I did it was that I was getting quite a bit of heat soak through the valve, I have since changed it for the servo'd one from Vintage Air but meantime I disconnected the heater hoses all together (can't be arsed to reconnect them yet!)Oh and the other thing I did was to completely seal the rear of the luggage containers to the bodywork with close cell foam from Woolies (didn't fit the fumes when building) This has stopped a lot of hot engine air and fumes being sucked from the back to the front, also stopped my luggage lids 'popping' open at over 80 leptons. BUT all this is on a Can-Am, I'm guessing a GTR will have different issues..........
Graham
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