Starter Motor position
Discussion
All the pictures I have seem to point to the starter being on the engine side of the adaptor plate. I have seen pictures, which show that the bell housing has a starter position but it was not occupied nor did it have a cover.
If they always fit from the engine side then why does my adaptor plate not have a hole in it to take the starter spigot or do I have to drill it myself?
Any ideas
Steve
If they always fit from the engine side then why does my adaptor plate not have a hole in it to take the starter spigot or do I have to drill it myself?
Any ideas
Steve
It all depends on which adaptor kit you have. The earlier Kit had it on the engine side but was a B*****d to get out due to the sump. If you have a dry sump with a short engine sump pan then it's OK.
The one the factory now sell fitt's on the gearbox and uses the early G50 Clutch.
If you fit the later adaptor and clutch you will have to machine that G50/20 as there are some clearance issues with the ring gear.
The one the factory now sell fitt's on the gearbox and uses the early G50 Clutch.
If you fit the later adaptor and clutch you will have to machine that G50/20 as there are some clearance issues with the ring gear.
Your adapter plate should be just fine and not require any further machining. If I recall correctly there are three ways of hooking an SBC to a post-1990 G50 box:
- Hook it up with an uprated(ish) porsche starter and retain the 964 clutch and starter ring gear. You could probably do this to a stock 305 or 350 and it would work...mostly. Bolt together no machining required.
- Keep the std 964 clutch but put a fairly beefy gear reduction starter on the adapter plate. This needs a small pocket machined for the end of the starter. The ring gear is on the flywheel. This is what is pictured in the build manual.
- Ditch the 964 clutch and use the old 911(pre-90 G50) clutch. This needs a bit of machining of the starter mounting (I think) and a "thin" skim removed from the inside of the bellhousing to allow the deeper old-G50 clutch and starter ring gear (mounted on the end of the clutch) to fit. GTRClive has told us how much fun doing this yourself is...
The first option is daft for an Ultima and KEP (the adapter plate people) don't recommend this.
The second option is OK but has some limitations in the size of starter motor that can be fitted which I think limits just how hairy a compression ratio you can run. Also you are limited a bit in the clutch department. There's not a huge number of options other than the stock 964 Sachs clutch (the uprated one just costs more apparently!).
The third option allows huge gear reduction starters for those hairy high compression motors. Also because it runs the old style G50 clutch you have access to a very much wider range of high power clutches (anyone running a KEP 600 lbft clutch?). I'm guessing that Ultima will have done the necessary machining work on your gearbox Steve for going together this way.
Of course the easy option is to use an old pre-90 G50 box. Then it all just bolts together with out much fuss. Provided you can fix a good box of course...
The best option (IMHO) has to be a G50/52 with the appropriate mods to use the old style G50 clutch. Good ratios with a bullet proof clutch.
I'm running the second option on a G50/03 with a stock Sachs clutch shimmed for the Turbo. Fairly light progressive clutch that should be able to more or less handle the 500 lbft my wee engine can put out. I'll see how it hacks it when I take it to the strip around Easter time...
Corrections, additions or rebuttals most welcome!
- Hook it up with an uprated(ish) porsche starter and retain the 964 clutch and starter ring gear. You could probably do this to a stock 305 or 350 and it would work...mostly. Bolt together no machining required.
- Keep the std 964 clutch but put a fairly beefy gear reduction starter on the adapter plate. This needs a small pocket machined for the end of the starter. The ring gear is on the flywheel. This is what is pictured in the build manual.
- Ditch the 964 clutch and use the old 911(pre-90 G50) clutch. This needs a bit of machining of the starter mounting (I think) and a "thin" skim removed from the inside of the bellhousing to allow the deeper old-G50 clutch and starter ring gear (mounted on the end of the clutch) to fit. GTRClive has told us how much fun doing this yourself is...
The first option is daft for an Ultima and KEP (the adapter plate people) don't recommend this.
The second option is OK but has some limitations in the size of starter motor that can be fitted which I think limits just how hairy a compression ratio you can run. Also you are limited a bit in the clutch department. There's not a huge number of options other than the stock 964 Sachs clutch (the uprated one just costs more apparently!).
The third option allows huge gear reduction starters for those hairy high compression motors. Also because it runs the old style G50 clutch you have access to a very much wider range of high power clutches (anyone running a KEP 600 lbft clutch?). I'm guessing that Ultima will have done the necessary machining work on your gearbox Steve for going together this way.
Of course the easy option is to use an old pre-90 G50 box. Then it all just bolts together with out much fuss. Provided you can fix a good box of course...
The best option (IMHO) has to be a G50/52 with the appropriate mods to use the old style G50 clutch. Good ratios with a bullet proof clutch.
I'm running the second option on a G50/03 with a stock Sachs clutch shimmed for the Turbo. Fairly light progressive clutch that should be able to more or less handle the 500 lbft my wee engine can put out. I'll see how it hacks it when I take it to the strip around Easter time...
Corrections, additions or rebuttals most welcome!
Don't write the Porsche starter motor off as I use the largest Porsche starter motor on my 500bhp chevy (6.3 with higher than 10:1cr) with the standard porsche clutch and I bought the adapter plate, flywheel and ring gear from Kennedy engineering.
Have to say that I highly rate it as it never fails to turn or have any problem turning and has absolutelly no wear after much use.
Of cause if you get the smaller Porsche starter it struggles to turn the engine, I know this as originally I was given a smaller one.
It sits on the gearbox side and I had to lengthen my loom to fit, after a visit to the factory I established that my loom was shorter than some others so in the factory I think you have to specify starter motor side on purchasing the loom to avoid this. No big deal though.
However I strongly advise speaking to Kennedy engineering as they really know their stuff.
Have to say that I highly rate it as it never fails to turn or have any problem turning and has absolutelly no wear after much use.
Of cause if you get the smaller Porsche starter it struggles to turn the engine, I know this as originally I was given a smaller one.
It sits on the gearbox side and I had to lengthen my loom to fit, after a visit to the factory I established that my loom was shorter than some others so in the factory I think you have to specify starter motor side on purchasing the loom to avoid this. No big deal though.
However I strongly advise speaking to Kennedy engineering as they really know their stuff.
GTRClive said:
If you are thinking of maching the clearance yourself then the Die grinder would be no good.
I used an Angle grinder, with one of those flat stile flap wheels. Use plenty of WD40 or eq. as the wheel will clog if you don't.
>> Edited by GTRClive on Monday 22 December 11:16
Are you saying the carbide cutter will clog?
Steve
andycanam said:
Of cause if you get the smaller Porsche starter it struggles to turn the engine, I know this as originally I was given a smaller one.
Didn't mean to knock all Porsche starters. It's just the stock one fitted to 964s that's a bit on the small side.
andycanam said:
However I strongly advise speaking to Kennedy engineering as they really know their stuff.
Absolutely. If you are interested in doing anything a bit out of the ordinary with engine/gearbox combos then speak to these guys. They seem to have tested pretty much every combination imaginable!
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