Discussion
Hi, just wanted to introduce myself and my project.
I'm Harry, and longtime Renault5 turbo Maxi owner. I got a bit offset with this car with the price development in parts.
I'm an automotive contract designer, and worked on engine design and general exterior and interior prototyping and design for the major OEM.
As far as I can tell was this one of the first ultima sport. A pre production model.
It has been registered on Ted Marlow, and was used as demonstrator/testvehicle and switched ownership after that once more.
In august 2009 I found this car on a webadd, and bought it after I sold my last group B rallycar, and wanted something different, which I also could use for classic races.
I took it home without knowing what I actually got.
As you can see the rearend is custommade and a bit like the GTR, made in carbon.
In my workshop I have taken it completely apart to inspect stuff and to change rubish parts and panells which need replacing.
I didn't want too many holes in the chassis, so had to replicate the old panelling rivetholes, which was quite some work. Also changed it from RHD to LHD, and adding a bar in the rollcage.
I didn't like the original pedals, they were a bit flimsey to my taste.
As for the interior, I'm going to use this dashunit, with modified revcounter
Looks a bit more automotive to my taste.
The engine which came with the car is an old SBC350. At first I thought of replacing this old lump of iron, and replace it by a modern Audi or BMW V8/V10, but stepping back and analyzing all options and costs involved, with power potential, the SBC came out as the wisest choice. I followed the discussion about it on this forum. The just enormous potential of parts which are available, cilinderheads in what ever specs you want, availability of titanium valves, rods, etc, etc. Then looking into the old valvetrain layout, if you do it right you can easily go beyond 9000rpm. And that's where I hit the point, I want to build a highrev normally aspirated engine, I don't need the enormous torque engine which stops at 6700, the car is so light you can't put it on the road. So no turbo's or chargers needed.
So I'm now putting in a crower dragstertype camshaft, have a hilborn 2 1/2" inlet, and a Brodix raceprepped head, with titanium inletvalves and inconel hollowvalves which won't choke on highrev's.
Current flowsimulation promises me peakpower at 8600 up to 680HP. I will see how acurate it turns out to be.
If this is to my satisfaction I will replace the iron base for an aluminium one next year.
Currently I'm at this stage:
I'm Harry, and longtime Renault5 turbo Maxi owner. I got a bit offset with this car with the price development in parts.
I'm an automotive contract designer, and worked on engine design and general exterior and interior prototyping and design for the major OEM.
As far as I can tell was this one of the first ultima sport. A pre production model.
It has been registered on Ted Marlow, and was used as demonstrator/testvehicle and switched ownership after that once more.
In august 2009 I found this car on a webadd, and bought it after I sold my last group B rallycar, and wanted something different, which I also could use for classic races.
I took it home without knowing what I actually got.
As you can see the rearend is custommade and a bit like the GTR, made in carbon.
In my workshop I have taken it completely apart to inspect stuff and to change rubish parts and panells which need replacing.
I didn't want too many holes in the chassis, so had to replicate the old panelling rivetholes, which was quite some work. Also changed it from RHD to LHD, and adding a bar in the rollcage.
I didn't like the original pedals, they were a bit flimsey to my taste.
As for the interior, I'm going to use this dashunit, with modified revcounter
Looks a bit more automotive to my taste.
The engine which came with the car is an old SBC350. At first I thought of replacing this old lump of iron, and replace it by a modern Audi or BMW V8/V10, but stepping back and analyzing all options and costs involved, with power potential, the SBC came out as the wisest choice. I followed the discussion about it on this forum. The just enormous potential of parts which are available, cilinderheads in what ever specs you want, availability of titanium valves, rods, etc, etc. Then looking into the old valvetrain layout, if you do it right you can easily go beyond 9000rpm. And that's where I hit the point, I want to build a highrev normally aspirated engine, I don't need the enormous torque engine which stops at 6700, the car is so light you can't put it on the road. So no turbo's or chargers needed.
So I'm now putting in a crower dragstertype camshaft, have a hilborn 2 1/2" inlet, and a Brodix raceprepped head, with titanium inletvalves and inconel hollowvalves which won't choke on highrev's.
Current flowsimulation promises me peakpower at 8600 up to 680HP. I will see how acurate it turns out to be.
If this is to my satisfaction I will replace the iron base for an aluminium one next year.
Currently I'm at this stage:
Edited by harry b on Friday 8th January 22:28
Edited by harry b on Monday 20th December 21:13
Hi and welcome.
Looks like you're doing a nice job there and breathing new life into a tired car.
Will be interested in the spec you choose to get an SBC to rev that high.
Did it have air con before?
Reason I ask is that on the later cars the AC unit is mounted above the chassis bars under the dash. It may be that the earlier chassis was different in that area but it does look like the AC unit will be sitting on your passengers knees.
Steve
Looks like you're doing a nice job there and breathing new life into a tired car.
Will be interested in the spec you choose to get an SBC to rev that high.
Did it have air con before?
Reason I ask is that on the later cars the AC unit is mounted above the chassis bars under the dash. It may be that the earlier chassis was different in that area but it does look like the AC unit will be sitting on your passengers knees.
Steve
Dragstrip engines are great for dragstrips.....1/4 mile pass a few times per season.....1000 passes = 250 miles!!
Forget a drag-cam, get a custom grind, keep lift below .680-.700, spend 3-4k on a well matched valve train and peak at 8000, spring oilers etc. Follow the US circuit race recepies.
Good luck.
Forget a drag-cam, get a custom grind, keep lift below .680-.700, spend 3-4k on a well matched valve train and peak at 8000, spring oilers etc. Follow the US circuit race recepies.
Good luck.
The photos of your new car are what motivated me to get one. I really like the shape of that body. Really interesting to see the evolution of the chassis, greatly appreciate you taking the time to post the photos.
You've got a clever way of renewing the panels to minimize the number of holes drilled.
Please continue the updates.
You've got a clever way of renewing the panels to minimize the number of holes drilled.
Please continue the updates.
Steve,
The specs of the engine are as 738driver also mentioned, a bit taken from dragster racing, and from the normal racing series. Keypoint is indeed the valvetrain in the SBC to be able to move maximum power towards, where I want it, and yes for that I use a JESEL 30mm beltdrive, Jesel keyed lifters, titanium pushrods, roller lifters, lightweight rockers, in order to be able to lower the needed valvespring load. Even then you will need oilsspray on the springs to cool them down. I don't expect 30000 miles from the engine, just two seasons will be more than enough. It will mostly be used as trackcar, with now and then the possibility to anoy the usual Porsche or ferrari driver on the road. As for the dragstercam, I should maybe rephrase it, iyt ain't the top of the bill dragsterspecs, it has big overlap 116degrees, and 298timing at 0.05 lift. This will ofcourse create a lot of bleed at lower revs, but I will try to compensate it with higher static compression, think of 1:11 and advancing the camtiming if lowend torque will be too low, but for now I don't think I will need it.
The aircon unit is indeed my concern, it doesn't fit above the chassis, it is also the reason I'm quite happy with a sport, since it has a much stiffer chassis in my opinion, looking at the differences in construction.
Pilbeam,
Really can't tell, but from my experience it won't make too much of a difference, and Ialready going to use an electrical waterpump, to keep things flowing.
GTRclive,
The unit comes from a hayabusa motorcycle, and has lucky enough almost no feed from the ECU, apart from a warninglight fro the engine and the revcounter. Speedo is straight input from a hall sensor, everything else is straight forward. If things don't align up straight away, I can always reroute signals through my ECU and recalibrate to matching output signals.
Have measured up the whole engine now, and put it into the engine simulation programm I use, and was quite surprized how well the standard exhaust for the ultima sport works in the wave action simulation. Shorter headerpipes would improve a bit, but all in all a good simulationbase to start the actual Dynotest with.
It is in the bandwidth I expected. With the G5002 the 200mph mark should be possible.
In my experience with other engines I build, it will not be far off the truth.
For all the numbercrunchers the screenshots. I will follow up with the actual data later this year.
It is in the bandwidth I expected. With the G5002 the 200mph mark should be possible.
In my experience with other engines I build, it will not be far off the truth.
For all the numbercrunchers the screenshots. I will follow up with the actual data later this year.
ossme said:
Nice work. 
BTW, From where you got this gauges cluster ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-HAYABUSA-BILLET-DASH-GAUGE-COVER-BLOCK_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2ea39b7fa0QQitemZ200313372576QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesBTW, From where you got this gauges cluster ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hayabusa-Gauges-Clu...
Edited by ezakimak on Thursday 4th February 04:58
ezakimak said:
ossme said:
Nice work.
BTW, From where you got this gauges cluster ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-HAYABUSA-BILLET-DASH-GAUGE-COVER-BLOCK_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2ea39b7fa0QQitemZ200313372576QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesBTW, From where you got this gauges cluster ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hayabusa-Gauges-Clu...
Edited by ezakimak on Thursday 4th February 04:58
maurits555 said:
wow,
Yet another Ultima in Holland!
welcome to the club.
Are you going to register the car for road use, or is it just for the track?
When do you think to have it running?
Mainly track setup, since cooling will be troublesome in city environment, despite the electrical waterpump. I think you came up in a talk I had with Hans vdH, can this be?Yet another Ultima in Holland!
welcome to the club.
Are you going to register the car for road use, or is it just for the track?
When do you think to have it running?
the car is road registered so shouldn't be a problem to get dutch registration. Emissions are not the problem, car is registered in 1991. So also egliable for the classic races.
Don't know when it will be ready for the road, don't care actually. Will need some time to get the engine right.
GTWayne said:
Is it just me or is there some type of error with regards to that set of figures above?
I have never seen peak ftlbs that much higher than the BHP figure on ANY engine, even boosted ones!
i like the torque figure of 494 nm at 1000 rpm I have never seen peak ftlbs that much higher than the BHP figure on ANY engine, even boosted ones!
wow....must be a diesel engine!!!Dom
Edited by V8Dom on Wednesday 17th February 14:44
GTWayne said:
Is it just me or is there some type of error with regards to that set of figures above?
I have never seen peak ftlbs that much higher than the BHP figure on ANY engine, even boosted ones!
The figures are NM & KW not ftlb & BHP..... must say that I cant see a SBC drag cam producing real power below 1500rpm.I have never seen peak ftlbs that much higher than the BHP figure on ANY engine, even boosted ones!
I have to say its a very impressive rebuild and Im compltely with you regard building a revy engine rather than a torque monster.
Its gona be awsom when its finished, and I look forward to seeing it
Please remind this is just the theoretical engine simulation. As you can see there are some dips in the lower rev band. The low end has been pushed up by the effects of inlet length wave pulsation. Camshaft ain't a pure top end dragstercam.
The simulation gives a very good starting point. Things not taken into acount f.i. are the mufflers which come after the collectors. Effect of airfilters, effects of hot air pulled into the engine. Theoretical mumblejumble, but good enough to see what the powerband will do.
The simulation gives a very good starting point. Things not taken into acount f.i. are the mufflers which come after the collectors. Effect of airfilters, effects of hot air pulled into the engine. Theoretical mumblejumble, but good enough to see what the powerband will do.
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