Just purchased Ultima Can Am in USA
Discussion
Gents
I need some advise. I just purchased the first Ultima Can Am produced in the USA. This Ultima uses the Porsche turbo trans upgraded to handle 600Hp and 590 pounds of torque. The issue is that shifting the car into reverse is very difficult and forward gear shifting does not feel precise. The car is equiped with the rod type shifter not the cable type.
My question is....Is this a normal condition because of the inverse mounting of the gear box or is this an adjustment issue. The car has a dry sump set up so the linkage has to go far outside the motor to get to the trans.
I need some advise. I just purchased the first Ultima Can Am produced in the USA. This Ultima uses the Porsche turbo trans upgraded to handle 600Hp and 590 pounds of torque. The issue is that shifting the car into reverse is very difficult and forward gear shifting does not feel precise. The car is equiped with the rod type shifter not the cable type.
My question is....Is this a normal condition because of the inverse mounting of the gear box or is this an adjustment issue. The car has a dry sump set up so the linkage has to go far outside the motor to get to the trans.
Ray
Welcome to the forum and Ultima ownership.
The rod linkage can be from the side panel alongside the driver (left or right hand drive) or from the centre between the seats. In all these positions I do not believe there are normally any issues with how the link works.
It may be that your box has a problem.
My first move would be to take the link off the box and check that it all moves freely.
The inverted position of the box puts the gear cluster in the oil bath rather than relying on oil splash for its lube so the arrangement is actually better.
Steve
Welcome to the forum and Ultima ownership.
The rod linkage can be from the side panel alongside the driver (left or right hand drive) or from the centre between the seats. In all these positions I do not believe there are normally any issues with how the link works.
It may be that your box has a problem.
My first move would be to take the link off the box and check that it all moves freely.
The inverted position of the box puts the gear cluster in the oil bath rather than relying on oil splash for its lube so the arrangement is actually better.
Steve
Hi Ray,
Welcome to the forum! Congratulations on purchasing such a fantastic car. Your car is a central gear shift I believe. I also have the central gearshift with rods, and have spent quite a bit of time playing with the gearshift rods, adjusting them, fine tuning, etc...
My car is also difficult to shift into reverse and I've not been able to improve this a great deal. A real workout I know. It helps me to twist to the left and slightly pull back a little to help it past the detent and once it has gone past then push it forward. I complained about this to the factory and they advised that I have my transmission rebuilder cut down the detent spring in the gearbox upon rebuilding it. Its something that I've learned to live with, and I've convinced myself that its a great safety feature.
Now regarding the vagueness of gear position, it does take a little time to get used to changing gears in this car. Like Clive says, a little grease on the rods does help quite a bit, but also check two other things. First, jack the car up and with the help of an assistant, check to make sure you have enough clearance through the rear bulkhead when putting it into reverse and going through the gears. The 1st rod coming from the cockpit sees a good deal of twisting and torsion going into reverse and you want to make sure its not binding with the aluminum panels. You'll need to open up the holes if it does. Next, I always like checking to make sure the joints don't hit any of the rose joints(heim joints or rod ends) when selecting all the gears. This is probably o.k. with your car if it doesn't seem to pull out of gear when your driving. Finally, the greatest improvement in shifting, for me, has come from getting rid of the stupid dowel pins that hold the linkage to the rods and replacing them with allen head bolts and nuts(1/4" or so). Mine had quite a bit of slop and was making things more difficult. My shifting is much better now, 1st and 3rd is still a little too close, but with some practice this will get better. I'm not sure if people who have the side gearshift have the same troubles as we have. The central gearshift has quite a bit of horizontal and vertical angles going on.
Cheers!
-Mack
Welcome to the forum! Congratulations on purchasing such a fantastic car. Your car is a central gear shift I believe. I also have the central gearshift with rods, and have spent quite a bit of time playing with the gearshift rods, adjusting them, fine tuning, etc...
My car is also difficult to shift into reverse and I've not been able to improve this a great deal. A real workout I know. It helps me to twist to the left and slightly pull back a little to help it past the detent and once it has gone past then push it forward. I complained about this to the factory and they advised that I have my transmission rebuilder cut down the detent spring in the gearbox upon rebuilding it. Its something that I've learned to live with, and I've convinced myself that its a great safety feature.
Now regarding the vagueness of gear position, it does take a little time to get used to changing gears in this car. Like Clive says, a little grease on the rods does help quite a bit, but also check two other things. First, jack the car up and with the help of an assistant, check to make sure you have enough clearance through the rear bulkhead when putting it into reverse and going through the gears. The 1st rod coming from the cockpit sees a good deal of twisting and torsion going into reverse and you want to make sure its not binding with the aluminum panels. You'll need to open up the holes if it does. Next, I always like checking to make sure the joints don't hit any of the rose joints(heim joints or rod ends) when selecting all the gears. This is probably o.k. with your car if it doesn't seem to pull out of gear when your driving. Finally, the greatest improvement in shifting, for me, has come from getting rid of the stupid dowel pins that hold the linkage to the rods and replacing them with allen head bolts and nuts(1/4" or so). Mine had quite a bit of slop and was making things more difficult. My shifting is much better now, 1st and 3rd is still a little too close, but with some practice this will get better. I'm not sure if people who have the side gearshift have the same troubles as we have. The central gearshift has quite a bit of horizontal and vertical angles going on.
Cheers!
-Mack
Ray
Welcome also.
Something to strive for.
My LHD, left cill shifting CanAm with a G50 box, is the fastest, and smoothest shifter once it is warm. With very little effort, I can make it shift so it sounds like an automatic gearbox. Notice I said "when it is warm".
As Mack suggested, I also did not use roll pins on both sides of the universal joints. A 10/32 aircraft bolt was threaded into one side of the universal to facilitate installation and removal, which you'll be doing a lot until you've solved your problem.
http://home.comcast.net/~rosenracing2/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-574457.html
regards from New England
Jack
Welcome also.
Something to strive for.
My LHD, left cill shifting CanAm with a G50 box, is the fastest, and smoothest shifter once it is warm. With very little effort, I can make it shift so it sounds like an automatic gearbox. Notice I said "when it is warm".
As Mack suggested, I also did not use roll pins on both sides of the universal joints. A 10/32 aircraft bolt was threaded into one side of the universal to facilitate installation and removal, which you'll be doing a lot until you've solved your problem.
http://home.comcast.net/~rosenracing2/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-574457.html
regards from New England
Jack
Regarding the reverse detent spring.
This whole assembly can be removed from the outside of the box. Its on the side of the tail cone right at the back and is held in by a plate secured with two bolts. It gives the impression that rotating it and reclamping it gives some sort of adjustment so make sure you mark it before removal. The ball and spring are retained in this assembly.
Steve
This whole assembly can be removed from the outside of the box. Its on the side of the tail cone right at the back and is held in by a plate secured with two bolts. It gives the impression that rotating it and reclamping it gives some sort of adjustment so make sure you mark it before removal. The ball and spring are retained in this assembly.
Steve
Oiling the sliding fittings makes a huge difference to gearbox feel. I use GT 85 (a mountain biker's WD40 loaded with PTFE). This actually leaves very little oily residue behind to attract dirt and dust but leaves a nice PTFE coating on things.
The other slight deviation from a normal build I have done which make my gear change pretty good is to replace the roll pins with taper pins. Unlike roll pins and bolts they will never get sloppier with age.
The technique is:
- drill an undersize hole through the universal joint and shifter rod.
- prepare a taper pin by tapping the last 4-5 mm with an M4 die (I held the pin a stationary drill press and the die in a vice YMMV).
- use a taper reamer ($30 or so) to ream out the hole to take the pin such that the threaded part sticks just clear of the universal.
- Use a Nylock M4 nut and washer to ensure that the pin can't come out. You'll find that you have to give the pin quite a whack to get it out anyway because the tapered surfaces "stick" together....just like a Morse taper in a machine tool.
This is the "correct" way to connect things like universals, gears, etc when you are not transferring masses of torque. Unlike the roll pin you do have to be careful that the pin won't catch on anything as the gearshift rotates and slides because it sticks out a little. Same problem with bolts.
I think that lubricating the sliding surfaces and checking the throw of the change will help the most for the least effort.
The other slight deviation from a normal build I have done which make my gear change pretty good is to replace the roll pins with taper pins. Unlike roll pins and bolts they will never get sloppier with age.
The technique is:
- drill an undersize hole through the universal joint and shifter rod.
- prepare a taper pin by tapping the last 4-5 mm with an M4 die (I held the pin a stationary drill press and the die in a vice YMMV).
- use a taper reamer ($30 or so) to ream out the hole to take the pin such that the threaded part sticks just clear of the universal.
- Use a Nylock M4 nut and washer to ensure that the pin can't come out. You'll find that you have to give the pin quite a whack to get it out anyway because the tapered surfaces "stick" together....just like a Morse taper in a machine tool.
This is the "correct" way to connect things like universals, gears, etc when you are not transferring masses of torque. Unlike the roll pin you do have to be careful that the pin won't catch on anything as the gearshift rotates and slides because it sticks out a little. Same problem with bolts.
I think that lubricating the sliding surfaces and checking the throw of the change will help the most for the least effort.
Thanks for all the information! The car is up and running. The car was built by Brammo motorsports USA and has been modified from their original build to accept an American speed 7 liter 600HP motor with Kinsler fuel injection. The gear box has been upgraded to handle the torque of this motor. I am now sorting out the odds and ends prior to attempting registration and licensing in New Jersey USA.
Ray
Ray
Steve_D said:
Regarding the reverse detent spring.
This whole assembly can be removed from the outside of the box. Its on the side of the tail cone right at the back and is held in by a plate secured with two bolts. It gives the impression that rotating it and reclamping it gives some sort of adjustment so make sure you mark it before removal. The ball and spring are retained in this assembly.
Steve
I think you will find that is not the reverse indent, as the reverse is in the gear selector plate which is right inside the main casing, and a major job to get to.. But a correctly set up linkage still works OK.
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