More questions from a newbie
Discussion
Some of you may have seen our posts a while ago about building an ultima gtr. As you all know life gets in the way of 'fun stuff'.
Just a quick recap, we or should i say me (as i will be building it-promised the missus should could tighten a few nuts to keep her happy to say she built it lol) is not mechanically minded having never done anything like this before am still a little concerned if I will get stuck.
Or (hoping) its simply a matter of following some instructions curtesey of Ultima
Im planning on keep the car pretty much to Ultima's original specs. Only things i would like to change would be making the interior better-but no doubt i would need a car uphoslter for that stage anyway. The engine choice would ideally be the LS7 engine by american speed. This engine is obviously most expensive choice but have read that its more reliable than the older type Small block units.
Hopefully, if all goes to plan we will be visitng the factorys open day in August and putting down our cash for delivery of the first stages
In summary im asking should a complete novice with no mechanical knowledge be even debating about building an Ultima GTR?
thanks for your reading
chris (shirley)
Just a quick recap, we or should i say me (as i will be building it-promised the missus should could tighten a few nuts to keep her happy to say she built it lol) is not mechanically minded having never done anything like this before am still a little concerned if I will get stuck.
Or (hoping) its simply a matter of following some instructions curtesey of Ultima
Im planning on keep the car pretty much to Ultima's original specs. Only things i would like to change would be making the interior better-but no doubt i would need a car uphoslter for that stage anyway. The engine choice would ideally be the LS7 engine by american speed. This engine is obviously most expensive choice but have read that its more reliable than the older type Small block units.
Hopefully, if all goes to plan we will be visitng the factorys open day in August and putting down our cash for delivery of the first stages
In summary im asking should a complete novice with no mechanical knowledge be even debating about building an Ultima GTR?
thanks for your reading
chris (shirley)
Only if you have deep pockets. I had no experience mechanically, and thought i could do it. Eventually it gets too much and i had to pass it over for someone else to finish, the bills will make you feel sick!
Of course everyone has their own take but if you have no mechanical knowledge get someone to build it for you, or buy 2nd hand and modify it, given my time again, i would have done that, i would have saved a fortune.
Just my opinion. If you do get stuck though, lots of help, - speak to Kyle or Steve D - fonts of all Ultima Knowledge.
Of course everyone has their own take but if you have no mechanical knowledge get someone to build it for you, or buy 2nd hand and modify it, given my time again, i would have done that, i would have saved a fortune.
Just my opinion. If you do get stuck though, lots of help, - speak to Kyle or Steve D - fonts of all Ultima Knowledge.
I'm just starting to look into owning one of these beasts, I've owned small volume build cars before, ( noble ), so i know what I'm getting into, unfortunately I don't have the room to build one myself, but in my opinion unless you either have some mechanical/diy/bloody good with spanners knowledge, then maybe the second hand route is the one for you.
I have been in the engineering game for most of my adult life, and I'm way on the wrong side of 21, even for me it would become frustrating waiting for the end to come into site, and as has been said before, the cost of building one against waiting for a good second hand one to come on the market will be staggering.
And, seeing as it will probably take you a couple of years to build it, ( with no previous knowledge etc etc ), then it won't hurt waitng for the right car to become available.
I know this will probably burst your bubble, but you have to be realistic, where you will spend around 55-60K building one, if you wait and buy a second hand one for say 40K, then you still have money left in the pot for upgrading/fiddling etc etc.
I suppose the only other thing to think about is raising funds, at least if you build your own then it's a gradual drain on any resources you might have, but what happens if you get so far and the pot runs dry, you are left with a half built car that will be hard to sell for what you have paid out.
sorry to be so gloomy, but I have been all through this before in my head, and I at least have quite a comprehensive engineering background.
By the way, I will be at the open day, so will be good to have a chat then.
Off now to open a bottle of red.
Steve.
I have been in the engineering game for most of my adult life, and I'm way on the wrong side of 21, even for me it would become frustrating waiting for the end to come into site, and as has been said before, the cost of building one against waiting for a good second hand one to come on the market will be staggering.
And, seeing as it will probably take you a couple of years to build it, ( with no previous knowledge etc etc ), then it won't hurt waitng for the right car to become available.
I know this will probably burst your bubble, but you have to be realistic, where you will spend around 55-60K building one, if you wait and buy a second hand one for say 40K, then you still have money left in the pot for upgrading/fiddling etc etc.
I suppose the only other thing to think about is raising funds, at least if you build your own then it's a gradual drain on any resources you might have, but what happens if you get so far and the pot runs dry, you are left with a half built car that will be hard to sell for what you have paid out.
sorry to be so gloomy, but I have been all through this before in my head, and I at least have quite a comprehensive engineering background.
By the way, I will be at the open day, so will be good to have a chat then.
Off now to open a bottle of red.
Steve.
Edited by steve1 on Wednesday 7th July 19:34
Edited by steve1 on Wednesday 7th July 19:34
Edited by steve1 on Wednesday 7th July 19:35
Dont be put off by simple cash issues. If you want to do it go for it take your time and there are loads on here that will help every step of the way. I am in the same position thinking of building, and to be honest the pevious comments makes sense, but miss the feel good factor of completion. Yes it may cost over 50k but if this is done over afew years and you have a bit put side now you'll be ok I guess.
It is true that it would be cheaper to buy second hand but you can’t spread the cost over a couple of years.
For me the build was one of the most memorable and enjoyable parts of ownership and makes the car all the more special to drive.
The details from the factory are quite good and there are several good build sites from fellow Ultima owners that will help you overcome most issues.
The only really tricky issue I think is the alignment of the body and getting the panel gaps right but that just takes time, patience and a friend who has done it before.
I am sure your interest and enthusiasm could overcome any lack of mechanical knowledge but if not there are plenty of enthusiasts around to help.
What building it yourself will simplify is the ongoing servicing and general tinkering as you will by then have an intimate knowledge of the car.
There are a few of us in the North West who would happily give you a hand if you get stuck.
The most important thing is to have the missus on your side which it sounds like you have and if she wants to work on the car all the better. My missus was very supportive but when I bought a few extra bits that I forgot to mention she tightened my nuts.
Do it – you’ll have fun
For me the build was one of the most memorable and enjoyable parts of ownership and makes the car all the more special to drive.
The details from the factory are quite good and there are several good build sites from fellow Ultima owners that will help you overcome most issues.
The only really tricky issue I think is the alignment of the body and getting the panel gaps right but that just takes time, patience and a friend who has done it before.
I am sure your interest and enthusiasm could overcome any lack of mechanical knowledge but if not there are plenty of enthusiasts around to help.
What building it yourself will simplify is the ongoing servicing and general tinkering as you will by then have an intimate knowledge of the car.
There are a few of us in the North West who would happily give you a hand if you get stuck.
The most important thing is to have the missus on your side which it sounds like you have and if she wants to work on the car all the better. My missus was very supportive but when I bought a few extra bits that I forgot to mention she tightened my nuts.
Do it – you’ll have fun
My car was originally planned to take two years....... eventually i finished in four. This was frustrating but the feeling you get at the end kmowing you have built a whole car is great.
The factory reckon it takes 300 hours to build a standard car, i think this is 'the factory' take 300 hours to build it. If you start to modify then you can just add ooooo another 2 years lol.
If you go 2nd hand and you dont want the standard factory interior you may have a long wait. You could strip it out and redo it but ask Ditto just how easy it easy to strip and rebuild.
If you go for an LS7 spec car, it will NOT cost 55-60k, add at least another 10k on that and that will probably still be pushing it.
Dont write off the SBC there are plenty out there with many happy drivers. If you compare LS7 to 550hp sbc you will have plenty of money left in your pocket. ok it may be a bit heavier on fuel and a bit more smokey but you also wont have the extra costs of cats, ecu, plumbing etc.
Dave
The factory reckon it takes 300 hours to build a standard car, i think this is 'the factory' take 300 hours to build it. If you start to modify then you can just add ooooo another 2 years lol.
If you go 2nd hand and you dont want the standard factory interior you may have a long wait. You could strip it out and redo it but ask Ditto just how easy it easy to strip and rebuild.
If you go for an LS7 spec car, it will NOT cost 55-60k, add at least another 10k on that and that will probably still be pushing it.
Dont write off the SBC there are plenty out there with many happy drivers. If you compare LS7 to 550hp sbc you will have plenty of money left in your pocket. ok it may be a bit heavier on fuel and a bit more smokey but you also wont have the extra costs of cats, ecu, plumbing etc.
Dave
thanks guys. total mixed review on build or buy. To be honest i dont just want to buy an ultima though, as i would feel as if i cheated myself.
Im hoping that by building the Ultima i was also learn enough to maintain in the future, wheras as just purchasing it would be like just buying any other car. (i.e know nothing about them)
Is there any of you that own/built your Ultima in the Lancashire (blackpool) area?(can see you all hiding in the shadows now to avoid.. what will be millions of questions lol...
Anyway enough waffle... so far its 50/50 with you guys on whether i should attempt to build an Ultima. Im still hoping it is something that can be done by a novice as i can imagine that the sense of achievement once built is amazing knowing your driving the worlds fastest car you have built.
What are the stages that i will struggle with?
So the cost of an LS7 Ultima will be??? and an SBC ultima will be?? (both being factory spec'd with AP brakes etc)
Im hoping that by building the Ultima i was also learn enough to maintain in the future, wheras as just purchasing it would be like just buying any other car. (i.e know nothing about them)
Is there any of you that own/built your Ultima in the Lancashire (blackpool) area
?(can see you all hiding in the shadows now to avoid.. what will be millions of questions lol...Anyway enough waffle... so far its 50/50 with you guys on whether i should attempt to build an Ultima. Im still hoping it is something that can be done by a novice as i can imagine that the sense of achievement once built is amazing knowing your driving the worlds fastest car you have built.
What are the stages that i will struggle with?
So the cost of an LS7 Ultima will be??? and an SBC ultima will be?? (both being factory spec'd with AP brakes etc)
forgetting your first questions, seriously spend time considering your engine choice.
LS3 / LS7 - really dig deep on this one as the choice isnt as simple as you would expect. For's and againsts all the way.
Also transaxle - search early on and grab a good deal when it comes along. Ebay, Piston heads, Porsche Breakers. Breakers dont always know what they have, i grabbed a G50/52 - for £1500.oo in absolutley mint condition.
As with your whole build, planning is essential!
Tray and get a test drive in both centre gear change and right hand gear change, neither is better, its what suits you. Dont ask for opinion on specific colour, as only you know what you want. Power more is always better, the guys on here love power, so go for what your budget will allow.
Bodywork and glass let the factory do it.
LS3 / LS7 - really dig deep on this one as the choice isnt as simple as you would expect. For's and againsts all the way.
Also transaxle - search early on and grab a good deal when it comes along. Ebay, Piston heads, Porsche Breakers. Breakers dont always know what they have, i grabbed a G50/52 - for £1500.oo in absolutley mint condition.
As with your whole build, planning is essential!
Tray and get a test drive in both centre gear change and right hand gear change, neither is better, its what suits you. Dont ask for opinion on specific colour, as only you know what you want. Power more is always better, the guys on here love power, so go for what your budget will allow.
Bodywork and glass let the factory do it.
I lived in Blackpool when I built mine but have now moved back to Bolton. My Brother J-K built a CanAm and he is a bit closer in Leyland. The chap who looks after my engine is from Poulton-Le-Fylde. There are a few other builders around so I am sure one of us could help you with any build issues. I would happily come over and give you a hand as long as you provide the tea and biscuits.
Knowledge comes from many sources. I have noticed over the years that lots of car guys, had car dads, thier dads showed them the basics and they went forward. My dad wasn't a car guy, great dad, not a car guy. Might I suggest two things that have helped me. There are some very good books out there about general race car constuction. Start reading. The second thing I did was apprenticed myself into a race car fabrication shop. Did a lot of floor sweeping, but learned most of what I know today from that experince. Building the Ultima is a hoot. The factory makes a very very good product and when your done its yours. Good luck, Lee
can anybody recommend any books on car mechanics that would be useful to read?
I was thinking of purchasing a car mechanics course manual from ebay? is this sort of thing going to help building an ultima?
thanks chewy for the offer im sure i will take you up on it
Cant say i have ever seen an ultima on the road around here, do you still own your Ultima? Who does your engine work in Poulton?
I was thinking of purchasing a car mechanics course manual from ebay? is this sort of thing going to help building an ultima?
thanks chewy for the offer im sure i will take you up on it
Cant say i have ever seen an ultima on the road around here, do you still own your Ultima? Who does your engine work in Poulton?
Edited by chris_shirl on Thursday 22 July 23:34
I constructed my LS7 GTR for about £60K and that includes a good metallic spray job. I got my engine through Jeff Schwartz in the US for a bit less than AS (no AS LS7 available at the time. Mine was the first LS7 GTR in the UK I believe). It worked first time and has been no problems since.
Savings for me where in the misc bits and pieces like seats, electrics,instruments etc where I used off the shelf items..but this was primarily to suit my taste.
I have to say I've had a reasonably mechanical upbringing and am a control systems engineer by trade which made things considerably easier..but there is always loads of support from this forum if yo ever get stuck!
Savings for me where in the misc bits and pieces like seats, electrics,instruments etc where I used off the shelf items..but this was primarily to suit my taste.
I have to say I've had a reasonably mechanical upbringing and am a control systems engineer by trade which made things considerably easier..but there is always loads of support from this forum if yo ever get stuck!
thanks for the book suggestions rowdyrenault, had a quick look at carrollsmith website. He definately looks like he knows his stuff- But will race engineer books help or do i need something with more 'basic fundamentals'?
I appreciate all the info guys, as its a scary prospect building a car from scratch lol
I appreciate all the info guys, as its a scary prospect building a car from scratch lol
Ive got the Smith books as well, the engineer to win book does go into materials properties for a chapter or two - but its still a good read and has lots of little tips and tricks in it.
one other books that is more basic - but not nessisarily the best way to do things is Ron champions book
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Sports-Little-%C2...
it will give you a god indication of what people are capable of with a few basic tools.
I recently got given this book, http://www.amazon.com/Build-Motorcycle-engined-Rac...
which has resulted in a project getting under way with a few mates. Its been a good excuse to get out of the house and a heep of fun, we normally meet once a week, usually on a tuesday night after work at someones house - grab the tools and get into it. as were all building/designing the same thing we share the highs and lows and drag each other through it. I think the first time we met and descided we were going to do this - build a car thingy - was late December 2009. fast forward to mid 2010, suspension components have been designed, verified for strength by indipendent engineer and the chassis design is on its way
this was from a month or two ago. if you had of asked me if the above was achievable this time last year - i would have said "your dreaming" - you create your own luck it seams. You just have to start - there is a part build kit in the clasifieds right now. If i was in the UK i would have it.
you can do it, its heeps of fun.
Ryan
one other books that is more basic - but not nessisarily the best way to do things is Ron champions book
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Sports-Little-%C2...
it will give you a god indication of what people are capable of with a few basic tools.
I recently got given this book, http://www.amazon.com/Build-Motorcycle-engined-Rac...
which has resulted in a project getting under way with a few mates. Its been a good excuse to get out of the house and a heep of fun, we normally meet once a week, usually on a tuesday night after work at someones house - grab the tools and get into it. as were all building/designing the same thing we share the highs and lows and drag each other through it. I think the first time we met and descided we were going to do this - build a car thingy - was late December 2009. fast forward to mid 2010, suspension components have been designed, verified for strength by indipendent engineer and the chassis design is on its way
this was from a month or two ago. if you had of asked me if the above was achievable this time last year - i would have said "your dreaming" - you create your own luck it seams. You just have to start - there is a part build kit in the clasifieds right now. If i was in the UK i would have it.
you can do it, its heeps of fun.
Ryan
Edited by ezakimak on Friday 23 July 15:19
chris_shirl said:
thanks for the book suggestions rowdyrenault, had a quick look at carrollsmith website. He definately looks like he knows his stuff- But will race engineer books help or do i need something with more 'basic fundamentals'?
I appreciate all the info guys, as its a scary prospect building a car from scratch lol
What are you like at DIY?I appreciate all the info guys, as its a scary prospect building a car from scratch lol
For an Ultima build you will need more DIY skills than mechanic skills. The mechanical aspect of the build is so well engineered by Ultima that you should have few problems. You will however need care, time and attention to achieve a nice fit of the body panels some of which will need fine tuning for best fit.
An Ultima will be easier to build than many other kits on the market.
Steve
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