Ultima v GT3........Road manners
Discussion
Morning chaps. 
Had rather a busy week at work (most unusual for Lucky, I hear you say!), so I decided to go in yesterday to play catch up.
As the day went on and the inbox cleared, I kept toggling across to the weather forecast to see what this morning was gonna bring. All good. Clear, crisp and dry. I made up my mind that i'd stay sober last night, not set the alarm and see if my in-built petrol fueled body clock would wake me before dawn for an early morning, traffic-free hoon.
It did.
Up goes the garage door at 6am on the nose, orange sky. Pictures of X8GTR adorn the white walls, a chewed crankshaft, a loose cam follower and a heavily pitted piston crown, the only physical reminders of the black beast that used to rest there. A new animal has taken the floor space.
She fires with no drama, the only similarity is the puff of oil smoke on start up. Carbed SBC, no choke v modern flat six. I drive out, front lift activated to clear the reverse downhill ramp on the drive. Flick a switch and the pneumatic valve goes 'TTiissstt', and the nose drops to the floor.
Nothing on the roads.
Once the water is at 80 and the oil at 90, I can open the throttle. Sport button engaged, the exaust flaps now open at 3,000 rpm. I don't go below this for the rest of the drive......
I'm heading down the A24 now, then A29 towards Petworth. The roads are undulating, off camber, and profiled across their width. Huge 'sink' patches where the nearside tyres can get rutted in.
It's then I start thinking about the quality of the ride. I'm actually having to work this thing pretty hard to stay on line. In certain places the crests are unweighting the car so much that the rears, still under throttle, are spinning up and screeching as they land back down, slightly off line.
You know what? The Ultima never did that. The same road, the same speeds, the Ultima just soaked it all in, egging you on to push harder. The Ultima felt like it was floating over the road, but the GT3 is fighting every contour. Desperate to get traction.
One particulary hard landing got me thinking how relatively comfortable the Ultima was on these type of roads, I never felt my spine jolt..ever!!
Anyway, just thought I'd share that with you.
A bit later on the roads started getting busy, I realised I'd gone and got myself in the 'Old s
tter' Revival Meeting traffic to Goodwood. So I turned tail and returned home against the flow.
Happy driving all...
Lucky
Had rather a busy week at work (most unusual for Lucky, I hear you say!), so I decided to go in yesterday to play catch up.
As the day went on and the inbox cleared, I kept toggling across to the weather forecast to see what this morning was gonna bring. All good. Clear, crisp and dry. I made up my mind that i'd stay sober last night, not set the alarm and see if my in-built petrol fueled body clock would wake me before dawn for an early morning, traffic-free hoon.
It did.
Up goes the garage door at 6am on the nose, orange sky. Pictures of X8GTR adorn the white walls, a chewed crankshaft, a loose cam follower and a heavily pitted piston crown, the only physical reminders of the black beast that used to rest there. A new animal has taken the floor space.
She fires with no drama, the only similarity is the puff of oil smoke on start up. Carbed SBC, no choke v modern flat six. I drive out, front lift activated to clear the reverse downhill ramp on the drive. Flick a switch and the pneumatic valve goes 'TTiissstt', and the nose drops to the floor.
Nothing on the roads.
Once the water is at 80 and the oil at 90, I can open the throttle. Sport button engaged, the exaust flaps now open at 3,000 rpm. I don't go below this for the rest of the drive......
I'm heading down the A24 now, then A29 towards Petworth. The roads are undulating, off camber, and profiled across their width. Huge 'sink' patches where the nearside tyres can get rutted in.
It's then I start thinking about the quality of the ride. I'm actually having to work this thing pretty hard to stay on line. In certain places the crests are unweighting the car so much that the rears, still under throttle, are spinning up and screeching as they land back down, slightly off line.
You know what? The Ultima never did that. The same road, the same speeds, the Ultima just soaked it all in, egging you on to push harder. The Ultima felt like it was floating over the road, but the GT3 is fighting every contour. Desperate to get traction.
One particulary hard landing got me thinking how relatively comfortable the Ultima was on these type of roads, I never felt my spine jolt..ever!!
Anyway, just thought I'd share that with you.
A bit later on the roads started getting busy, I realised I'd gone and got myself in the 'Old s
tter' Revival Meeting traffic to Goodwood. So I turned tail and returned home against the flow. Happy driving all...
Lucky
MagicalTrevor said:
It sounds like you're speaking negatively about the GT3 (not RS?). Is it just a case of 'horses for courses'? I assume it excels elsewhere?
Btw I enjoyed reading that, thanks
No, not RS, just the GT3. Btw I enjoyed reading that, thanks
Yes, just re-read it, it did look a bit negative on the Porsche, but I assure you the intent was to praise the Ultima for achieving such compliance from what is, on the face of it, a race car for the road.
There are other things that the Porker does better than the Ultima, for sure.....
.....but I hate shopping.
Edited by LuckyP on Sunday 19th September 17:43
Strike1 said:
This is a great topic ....
One I seem to ask myself more often . The GTR's engine is back from repairs after snapping a rocker ,clean in half. The third time the engine is out since new.
Any regrets yet "P" ....???
If I said no, I'd be lying. But I guess I'd done my time and wanted to move on. Nearly a year now with the porsche and not a single dirty finger nail....for me, right now in my life, that's the clincher.
Guy's got it right, a GTR and production modern sportscar
One day maybe.
It would be black, a GTR, and heavily track focused. As close to 900kg as I could make it. Stock LS7.
I seem to be heading in your direction . Any spare time seems to be spent working on it. Not as much time in my life and putting the engine in the first time was a great experience , but now its the third time with less than 7 thou on the clock.
If I made any mistake with my GTR it was being to ambitious with the hp , AMS 377 with 685hp. The factory records sucked me in I'd say. I do a lot of racing in a Shelby can am with a v6 and only 300hp , we weigh in at 925kg with driver . The engine is out of a Nissan 350 Z, stock standard . Its run 5 race seasons(5yrs) with out a rebuild , only a re-fresh with new rings.Yes its more track focused , but with less than half the hp and it goes around Kyalami (old F1 track in Johannesburg) 9 seconds a lap faster than I've ever done it in the GTR and I dont spend my life looking at all the guages.
Maybe you're right P ,the stock LS7 with 505hp is the way to go , more than enough hp for the GTR on the track, but most importantly , reliability , reliability , reliability. Yeah , you can still make the car more track focused , but with a bullet proof engine.
Bigger is not always better in this case.
My dilemma is not wanting to regret selling the GTR,it is an awesome looking car .
The GT3RS is tugging at my shorts really hard, oh yeah , clean finger nails too.
Or maybe just go the LS7 route and save a lot of dosh. You got a good point there P , the GTR has to be better than my experience to date. Its not the car its the
engine.
Maybe you wouldn't have gone the GT3 route if you had put an LS7 in ?????
LuckyP said:
MagicalTrevor said:
It sounds like you're speaking negatively about the GT3 (not RS?). Is it just a case of 'horses for courses'? I assume it excels elsewhere?
Btw I enjoyed reading that, thanks
No, not RS, just the GT3. Btw I enjoyed reading that, thanks
Yes, just re-read it, it did look a bit negative on the Porsche, but I assure you the intent was to praise the Ultima for achieving such compliance from what is, on the face of it, a race car for the road.
There are other things that the Porker does better than the Ultima, for sure.....
.....but I hate shopping.
Edited by LuckyP on Sunday 19th September 17:43
Strike1 said:
I seem to be heading in your direction . Any spare time seems to be spent working on it. Not as much time in my life and putting the engine in the first time was a great experience , but now its the third time with less than 7 thou on the clock.
If I made any mistake with my GTR it was being to ambitious with the hp , AMS 377 with 685hp. The factory records sucked me in I'd say. I do a lot of racing in a Shelby can am with a v6 and only 300hp , we weigh in at 925kg with driver . The engine is out of a Nissan 350 Z, stock standard . Its run 5 race seasons(5yrs) with out a rebuild , only a re-fresh with new rings.Yes its more track focused , but with less than half the hp and it goes around Kyalami (old F1 track in Johannesburg) 9 seconds a lap faster than I've ever done it in the GTR and I dont spend my life looking at all the guages.
Maybe you're right P ,the stock LS7 with 505hp is the way to go , more than enough hp for the GTR on the track, but most importantly , reliability , reliability , reliability. Yeah , you can still make the car more track focused , but with a bullet proof engine.
Bigger is not always better in this case.
My dilemma is not wanting to regret selling the GTR,it is an awesome looking car .
The GT3RS is tugging at my shorts really hard, oh yeah , clean finger nails too.
Or maybe just go the LS7 route and save a lot of dosh. You got a good point there P , the GTR has to be better than my experience to date. Its not the car its the
engine.
Maybe you wouldn't have gone the GT3 route if you had put an LS7 in ?????
Yes, I'd probably still have had the Ultima in tha garage if it hadn't chewed itself up twice (or was it three times - I forget). Manufacturers care about keeping their customers happy, so they buy another car. That's why their engines are bullet proof, The engine blows (either on road or on track) they fix it. Once a specialist breathes on them and you step one inch inside a circuit perimeter fence, that's it, you're a 'racer' and racer rules apply - you bend it you mend it.
Stock power, light weight. Perfect combo.
You don't get the same 'drama' with a GT3 as you do with a GTR......but then again, you don't get the same drama(s)!
bluesatin said:
Lucky
I have learnt that if you drive hi spec SBC hard then they need a lot of care and attention. Hopefully the LS7 is going to be a lot less hassle! Why dont you buy a LS engined ultima and keep the porker for work!
I can't drive anything other than ....... to work. I'd get shot!!I have learnt that if you drive hi spec SBC hard then they need a lot of care and attention. Hopefully the LS7 is going to be a lot less hassle! Why dont you buy a LS engined ultima and keep the porker for work!
You at VMax in the LS7?
Pete
bluesatin said:
Lucky
I have learnt that if you drive hi spec SBC hard then they need a lot of care and attention. Hopefully the LS7 is going to be a lot less hassle! Why dont you buy a LS engined ultima and keep the porker for work!
As you know, it's been my mantra for ages I have learnt that if you drive hi spec SBC hard then they need a lot of care and attention. Hopefully the LS7 is going to be a lot less hassle! Why dont you buy a LS engined ultima and keep the porker for work!
Hi power SBCs are all well and good, but as the hp goes up, the fragiliy does too.Now pull your finger out and get the LS installed
Need a hand? To Lucky's original thought. I am not a porsche guy. I had a new 944 in 82 it was a nightmare of problems all of them exspensive. Then a 89 944 turbo S. A very good car that did well for me. My friend has a 996 GT2. The car cost $170,000 plus. My Ultima will kick that cars tail anyway you want to look at it. But here's the kicker The Ultima rides a bunch better, much more compliant over less than ideal surfaces and his GT2 tramlines on ridges in the road which something that I dislike in a car a great deal. I see a lot of problems with motors posted here. I think it boils down to wet sump motors in a car that will generate way more Gs in every direction then Chevy ever installed either a SBC or LS in. Forget the Accusump, go straight to dry sump.You are not going to find a serious road race car that generates Gs like an Ultima without a dry sump. My engine builder builds LS motors for off road racing. Talk about trashing a motor, off road is really tough on motors. Bottom line is his motors run multiple races at 750 normally aspirated HP before they are pulled down and freshened. A pro built 500 -550 hp LS motor should go at least 50k without service besides oil and filters. I keep hearing main and rod bearing problems here guys thats oil related if the engine was setup correctly in the first place. Lee
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