Ultima registration in European countries?
Discussion
Hi,
I was hoping to get some info and help from different countries in Europe on how the registration works there. I am am currently trying to register my Ultima in Monaco and it seems that I need a a European conformity paper along with the Swedish registration paper. The conformity paper is usually given to you by the dealer where you bought the car, saying that its approved under Euro standards. So I am guessing its hard to get a paper like this with a custom car? Any ways around this?
Is Monaco the only country where it works like this? How does it usually work in the rest of the European countries? Any experiences are super welcome!
Thanks a lot!
JON
I was hoping to get some info and help from different countries in Europe on how the registration works there. I am am currently trying to register my Ultima in Monaco and it seems that I need a a European conformity paper along with the Swedish registration paper. The conformity paper is usually given to you by the dealer where you bought the car, saying that its approved under Euro standards. So I am guessing its hard to get a paper like this with a custom car? Any ways around this?
Is Monaco the only country where it works like this? How does it usually work in the rest of the European countries? Any experiences are super welcome!
Thanks a lot!
JON
Hi Jon
I am confronted with a similar problem here in Swizzyland. A European conformity paper would definitely help to get an Ultima road registered, but I don't think the factory can deliver this type of approval paper. I wonder how other Ultima owners in Germany do it?? Hopefully someone will be on here soon to give an answer as I am also VERY interested....
I am confronted with a similar problem here in Swizzyland. A European conformity paper would definitely help to get an Ultima road registered, but I don't think the factory can deliver this type of approval paper. I wonder how other Ultima owners in Germany do it?? Hopefully someone will be on here soon to give an answer as I am also VERY interested....
There are still laws under development for the flaws in the CE markings.
England is a bit special in this.
Ultima could give CE certification for the parts they deliver, it's quite easy in fact, but it also makes them responsible for the product they sell, and the damage they can cause.
Ultima can't give a CE marking for the car, because they don't deliver cars as complete, they just deliver a package which you build yourself.
In fact every builder is regarded as a car manufactor, so you would need to provide the CE marking yourself. For a car there are laws on what needs to be tested for CE markings on a transportation means. (crashtests etc.)
There is however awareness that not every carmanufactor who only delivers low volume cars, can perform all the tests financially. So there are provisions, not yet in every country, where you can get a car certified without the CE marking.
They can however, make your life difficult and you will most certainly need the help of an official institute to perform calculations, emissiontests, soundtests etc.
It is also very different from country to country, to what they want to certify.
I know for instance that France is not easy.
In Germanny TÜV, in France DECRA, etc.
England is a bit special in this.
Ultima could give CE certification for the parts they deliver, it's quite easy in fact, but it also makes them responsible for the product they sell, and the damage they can cause.
Ultima can't give a CE marking for the car, because they don't deliver cars as complete, they just deliver a package which you build yourself.
In fact every builder is regarded as a car manufactor, so you would need to provide the CE marking yourself. For a car there are laws on what needs to be tested for CE markings on a transportation means. (crashtests etc.)
There is however awareness that not every carmanufactor who only delivers low volume cars, can perform all the tests financially. So there are provisions, not yet in every country, where you can get a car certified without the CE marking.
They can however, make your life difficult and you will most certainly need the help of an official institute to perform calculations, emissiontests, soundtests etc.
It is also very different from country to country, to what they want to certify.
I know for instance that France is not easy.
In Germanny TÜV, in France DECRA, etc.
Edited by harry b on Tuesday 12th October 10:08
Edited by harry b on Tuesday 12th October 10:09
Hi
Some info on CE if it helps....
I have produced various products over the years, and have had to look deep into the CE thing..
First of all, CE is a self certification. (this is actually a cop out and passes responsibility to the manufacturer).
Second, any end user product that has been paid for in £ or EUROs must be CE approved, this is the law. It matters not what the intended purpose is (racing, space flight whatever), everything that is sold in Europe MUST be CE approved. There are no exceptions (we've looked!). I stand to be corrected on this, but I have spent a large amount of time and money looking...
So every part that you buy from Ultima is CE approved...
You can CE approve your car as you are the manufacturer, what this entails, in essence, is that you must be able to demonstrate due diligence backed up with documentation. As stated earlier, this is a cop out. Many, many products do not meet CE requirements (especially electronics), but it is up to the consumer to challenge this.
With respect to a car, all of the components must be CE approved (and they are - for any car, including kit cars), but this is a far cry from type approval - which is what is required to register a car. This type approval is riddled with exceptions.
It is in my experience that even the DVLA staff do not know the full details of these exceptions, and I have had to take DVLA and VOSA documentation with me on many occasions to get registered. Fortunately for us in the UK, there is a whole 'Kit Car' category that is well understood.
In the rest of Europe? Do not know! but get to your local registration office or DOT office and get the documentation of requirements for type approval, you should find your way through and find a route that allows registration. DO NOT take anyone's word for it, especially the staff at these offices.
At the end of the day, if they can register rally cars and enduro bikes, then you can register an Ultima (you may have to jump though hoops though).
The authorities do not like 'exceptions' on the road, and they usually mask the way...
Good Luck!
Gareth
Some info on CE if it helps....
I have produced various products over the years, and have had to look deep into the CE thing..
First of all, CE is a self certification. (this is actually a cop out and passes responsibility to the manufacturer).
Second, any end user product that has been paid for in £ or EUROs must be CE approved, this is the law. It matters not what the intended purpose is (racing, space flight whatever), everything that is sold in Europe MUST be CE approved. There are no exceptions (we've looked!). I stand to be corrected on this, but I have spent a large amount of time and money looking...
So every part that you buy from Ultima is CE approved...
You can CE approve your car as you are the manufacturer, what this entails, in essence, is that you must be able to demonstrate due diligence backed up with documentation. As stated earlier, this is a cop out. Many, many products do not meet CE requirements (especially electronics), but it is up to the consumer to challenge this.
With respect to a car, all of the components must be CE approved (and they are - for any car, including kit cars), but this is a far cry from type approval - which is what is required to register a car. This type approval is riddled with exceptions.
It is in my experience that even the DVLA staff do not know the full details of these exceptions, and I have had to take DVLA and VOSA documentation with me on many occasions to get registered. Fortunately for us in the UK, there is a whole 'Kit Car' category that is well understood.
In the rest of Europe? Do not know! but get to your local registration office or DOT office and get the documentation of requirements for type approval, you should find your way through and find a route that allows registration. DO NOT take anyone's word for it, especially the staff at these offices.
At the end of the day, if they can register rally cars and enduro bikes, then you can register an Ultima (you may have to jump though hoops though).
The authorities do not like 'exceptions' on the road, and they usually mask the way...
Good Luck!
Gareth
As far as I know, to be registered in France (DRIRE Service) you must provide an european certificate either
from the manufacturer (Ultima Factory didn't as it is, I guess, too expensive and a kit car) or by yourself
after testing the car including crashtest and I prefer driving a complete Ultima with english plates than some
parts of a french registered Ultima...
For insurance in France after one difficult year ( £ 2800/year, aouch!) I found for last 2 years a french insurance
covering all risks for £700/year and 8000 kms/year. Feel better since.
from the manufacturer (Ultima Factory didn't as it is, I guess, too expensive and a kit car) or by yourself
after testing the car including crashtest and I prefer driving a complete Ultima with english plates than some
parts of a french registered Ultima...
For insurance in France after one difficult year ( £ 2800/year, aouch!) I found for last 2 years a french insurance
covering all risks for £700/year and 8000 kms/year. Feel better since.
Gareth, now what you have described is a real eye opener.
Unfortunately or fortunately..., Switzerland is NOT a member of the CE. I will thus have to see how the authorities take on the idea of presenting a vehicle under one's own "manufacturer" name. Kit cars here in Swizzyland are rare (not rare as hen's teeth, but nearly) and as far as I know no manufacturer exists in this country. You do find Lotus 7's and other offspring kit type machines which are registered and road legal. Rally cars are supposedly also road legal, even if they are mostly driven with daily plates (hired and taxed on a day to day basis) inclusive of insurance coverage for road use. Special stages are obviously NOT included.
Ta for all that
Unfortunately or fortunately..., Switzerland is NOT a member of the CE. I will thus have to see how the authorities take on the idea of presenting a vehicle under one's own "manufacturer" name. Kit cars here in Swizzyland are rare (not rare as hen's teeth, but nearly) and as far as I know no manufacturer exists in this country. You do find Lotus 7's and other offspring kit type machines which are registered and road legal. Rally cars are supposedly also road legal, even if they are mostly driven with daily plates (hired and taxed on a day to day basis) inclusive of insurance coverage for road use. Special stages are obviously NOT included.
Ta for all that
budala said:
........For insurance in France after one difficult year ( £ 2800/year, aouch!) I found for last 2 years a french insurance covering all risks for £700/year and 8000 kms/year. Feel better since.
I would be really interested in who the insurer and or broker are as i know someone else who is trying to insure in France.PM if you want. Also understand if you feel someone else asking may compromise your own situation.
Thanks
Steve
Steve_D said:
budala said:
........For insurance in France after one difficult year ( £ 2800/year, aouch!) I found for last 2 years a french insurance covering all risks for £700/year and 8000 kms/year. Feel better since.
I would be really interested in who the insurer and or broker are as i know someone else who is trying to insure in France.PM if you want. Also understand if you feel someone else asking may compromise your own situation.
Thanks
Steve
english). This Ultima is parked and used in France. I don't want to be in an illegal situation in this matter.
And I don't think giving infos about my insurer could compromise in any way my own situation.
Just note that my insurer asked me to insure too my main home with him...
Here are his adress and phone :
Agence AXA Mr Pennobert David
15 Rue De Kerfeunteun BP 1111, Quimper Cedex
Phone : 02 98 95 80 69
I suppose you can tell him he was recommanded by me...
Anyway I 'll give him a call tomorrow to know if he wants to be recommanded !
Fred.
First: sorry for my english!
Thanks for this really important topic, I dream to buy in this month ah Ultima and I can try to understand what to do to import in Italy.
I have find an important topic in another forum but I don't know the policy of P.H. about links of other sites.
It's possible to link here or I m in "ban zone"?
Thanks for this really important topic, I dream to buy in this month ah Ultima and I can try to understand what to do to import in Italy.
I have find an important topic in another forum but I don't know the policy of P.H. about links of other sites.
It's possible to link here or I m in "ban zone"?
Sounds good:
"We registered our car last year and did indeed require a COC. It's the Landratsamt (registration office) that require it. Basically we did the following:
While still on UK insurance (which you can have for 90 days in Europe) we took our car to the local garage and they did TUV & ASU inspections for which we got certificates and also they did the COC. (In fact they arranged for an inspector to come in and do it. They check for things like headlights are suitable for driving in Europe.)
We then rang the German insurance company and arranged cover from the day we were going to the registration office. You get a number these days which you just need to quote at the reg. office, rather than a cover note.
The reg. office required sight of our TUV, ASU & COC certificates. They wanted our V5 doc for which they completed the relevant part & returned to the DVLA. They also required & disposed of our English plates. They needed our insurance cover number and of course some money! Also, they wanted a copy of our Anmeldung and our bank details as the German road tax is taken direct from your bank account. (They send you the invoice first.)
We then got to choose our number plate...well some of the letters anyway, and they issued a new log book and wrote our new reg. on the COC. We left the reg. office, went to get the plates made up (this was in a shop next door) and then went back to the reg. office. He attached the TUV/tax discs on the plates. We left, propped the plates on the dash. Drove to the garage who fixed them on properly for us, went home and cancelled our UK insurance.
All in all a fairly quick & easy process."
This is the topic:
http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t1535...
"We registered our car last year and did indeed require a COC. It's the Landratsamt (registration office) that require it. Basically we did the following:
While still on UK insurance (which you can have for 90 days in Europe) we took our car to the local garage and they did TUV & ASU inspections for which we got certificates and also they did the COC. (In fact they arranged for an inspector to come in and do it. They check for things like headlights are suitable for driving in Europe.)
We then rang the German insurance company and arranged cover from the day we were going to the registration office. You get a number these days which you just need to quote at the reg. office, rather than a cover note.
The reg. office required sight of our TUV, ASU & COC certificates. They wanted our V5 doc for which they completed the relevant part & returned to the DVLA. They also required & disposed of our English plates. They needed our insurance cover number and of course some money! Also, they wanted a copy of our Anmeldung and our bank details as the German road tax is taken direct from your bank account. (They send you the invoice first.)
We then got to choose our number plate...well some of the letters anyway, and they issued a new log book and wrote our new reg. on the COC. We left the reg. office, went to get the plates made up (this was in a shop next door) and then went back to the reg. office. He attached the TUV/tax discs on the plates. We left, propped the plates on the dash. Drove to the garage who fixed them on properly for us, went home and cancelled our UK insurance.
All in all a fairly quick & easy process."
This is the topic:
http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t1535...
I need help to clarify some perplexity...
To import a Ultima in continental europe countries the cars have need to respect some law!
-Need new regolation low beam ( Ultima need to total change lights or only mirror a plate???? )
-The Ultima safety-belt have a CE accordate omologation?
-The european cars need of third brake light! or i mistake? Where it's possible to locate? On the carbon flap???
-It's possible import a car with America Speed engine in class emission: "Euro minus two"????
To import a Ultima in continental europe countries the cars have need to respect some law!
-Need new regolation low beam ( Ultima need to total change lights or only mirror a plate???? )
-The Ultima safety-belt have a CE accordate omologation?
-The european cars need of third brake light! or i mistake? Where it's possible to locate? On the carbon flap???
-It's possible import a car with America Speed engine in class emission: "Euro minus two"????
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