Side Scoop Options
Discussion
Spatz, I've PM'ed you.
I've tried the "no scoop" route and even have fitted a small gurney on the side but it just needs more air flow for reducing oil temps and help reduce tempatures around the silencers.
If you look down the side of the car you'll see that the side pod intake actually set back in relation to the side of the front clam and to top it off the air exiting the front wheels as far from tidy.
Scoops = drag and less of a tidy look, but it better than marginal oil temps and melted body work!
I've tried the "no scoop" route and even have fitted a small gurney on the side but it just needs more air flow for reducing oil temps and help reduce tempatures around the silencers.
If you look down the side of the car you'll see that the side pod intake actually set back in relation to the side of the front clam and to top it off the air exiting the front wheels as far from tidy.
Scoops = drag and less of a tidy look, but it better than marginal oil temps and melted body work!
donkeasy said:
did anybody have a melted body?
Unlikely - our exhaust runs very close to the clam (less than an inch), and it discoloures temporarily from yellow to Orange but turns back. I think you will struggle to melt the fiberglass or gelcoat!We were going to add sidescoops but found they werent necessary as the pressure inside the clam is low so the air naturally enters. Ducting inside the pod would be more effective as the air takes the path of least resistance - generally round radiators rather than through them!
Louvres ontop of the wheel arches would help high pressure air from the arches escape and maybe tidy up the airflow slightly whilst increasing downforce - whether it would tidy the air along the side of the car I'm not sure?
Ok, ok, not melted but pretty darn warm!
After a longish run at Spa the other day (ambient 12°c) after coming in and being parked for 5 or 10 min the heat soak from the silencers got the body work to 70°c and that is with good quality heat shielding top and bottom and two layers of heat matting on the body work and some ducting hose to direct the air. The silencers themselves were at 230°c.
I spoke to my composite guy and he said that was pretty warm for GPR and anything to reduce this would be a good idea, especial on nice warm summer's day.
Same story with the oil temps, again at a ambient of 12°c it was running around 116°c which near the upper limits for the oil I'm using, though I'll be changing to one slightly heavier to add a bit more margin. Interestingly, as soon as I turned on the oil cooler fan the temp dropped by 4°c almost immediately, which shows me that there is a lack of air flow.
After a longish run at Spa the other day (ambient 12°c) after coming in and being parked for 5 or 10 min the heat soak from the silencers got the body work to 70°c and that is with good quality heat shielding top and bottom and two layers of heat matting on the body work and some ducting hose to direct the air. The silencers themselves were at 230°c.
I spoke to my composite guy and he said that was pretty warm for GPR and anything to reduce this would be a good idea, especial on nice warm summer's day.
Same story with the oil temps, again at a ambient of 12°c it was running around 116°c which near the upper limits for the oil I'm using, though I'll be changing to one slightly heavier to add a bit more margin. Interestingly, as soon as I turned on the oil cooler fan the temp dropped by 4°c almost immediately, which shows me that there is a lack of air flow.
Greg,
I used these scoops on my SSS car. They are perhaps excessively large but we had great worries over cooling issues due to the flat floor etc.
The fears over cooling were groundless as in practice the car runs amazingly cool. Oil temps were in fact low and blanking plates on the oil cooler were going to be tested.
I used these scoops on my SSS car. They are perhaps excessively large but we had great worries over cooling issues due to the flat floor etc.
The fears over cooling were groundless as in practice the car runs amazingly cool. Oil temps were in fact low and blanking plates on the oil cooler were going to be tested.
Same story with the oil temps, again at a ambient of 12°c it was running around 116°c which near the upper limits for the oil I'm using, though I'll be changing to one slightly heavier to add a bit more margin. Interestingly, as soon as I turned on the oil cooler fan the temp dropped by 4°c almost immediately, which shows me that there is a lack of air flow.
[/quote]
Can't say 4 degrees is a lot, looks like your oilcooler is too small.
What engine are you driving? Swiss man....Audi v8?
[/quote]
Can't say 4 degrees is a lot, looks like your oilcooler is too small.
What engine are you driving? Swiss man....Audi v8?
Edited by donkeasy on Thursday 28th April 15:19
I too had a recent trip to Spa, 150 miles on track and the ambient was 22DegC, not bad for April 
As to heat, I have never seen any real issues with the GRP in any Ultima (except the one I heard about that ran with those 'trap' exhaust silencer extensions). On the day my oil temp ran at around 110 to 115DegC, ok even for mineral oil that I run I thought. However, I do have a temperature controlled fan mounted on the oil cooler and an oil stat to control the other end. Also, which I believe helps the most is that all my intake air comes from the top scoop, which gives air that is typically 2 to 3DegC above ambient (after passing through the front radiator).
After having said all that I am still looking at getting more air into the engine bay (particularly as I have closed it in a little and intend to even more). I find my high pressure fuel regulator changes a bit with heat and I have got through one alternator probably down to high temperatures.
I like the idea of the NACA ducts, great gains with little effect on dynamics but can't make my mind up. Will someone else try them so I can decide, then copy
As to heat, I have never seen any real issues with the GRP in any Ultima (except the one I heard about that ran with those 'trap' exhaust silencer extensions). On the day my oil temp ran at around 110 to 115DegC, ok even for mineral oil that I run I thought. However, I do have a temperature controlled fan mounted on the oil cooler and an oil stat to control the other end. Also, which I believe helps the most is that all my intake air comes from the top scoop, which gives air that is typically 2 to 3DegC above ambient (after passing through the front radiator).
After having said all that I am still looking at getting more air into the engine bay (particularly as I have closed it in a little and intend to even more). I find my high pressure fuel regulator changes a bit with heat and I have got through one alternator probably down to high temperatures.
I like the idea of the NACA ducts, great gains with little effect on dynamics but can't make my mind up. Will someone else try them so I can decide, then copy
Pb3 said:
I too had a recent trip to Spa, 150 miles on track and the ambient was 22DegC, not bad for April
As to heat, I have never seen any real issues with the GRP in any Ultima (except the one I heard about that ran with those 'trap' exhaust silencer extensions). On the day my oil temp ran at around 110 to 115DegC, ok even for mineral oil that I run I thought. However, I do have a temperature controlled fan mounted on the oil cooler and an oil stat to control the other end. Also, which I believe helps the most is that all my intake air comes from the top scoop, which gives air that is typically 2 to 3DegC above ambient (after passing through the front radiator).
After having said all that I am still looking at getting more air into the engine bay (particularly as I have closed it in a little and intend to even more). I find my high pressure fuel regulator changes a bit with heat and I have got through one alternator probably down to high temperatures.
I like the idea of the NACA ducts, great gains with little effect on dynamics but can't make my mind up. Will someone else try them so I can decide, then copy
Naca ducts would work well, however if they are attached to the clam you have the issue of managing the ducting when the clam is opened.As to heat, I have never seen any real issues with the GRP in any Ultima (except the one I heard about that ran with those 'trap' exhaust silencer extensions). On the day my oil temp ran at around 110 to 115DegC, ok even for mineral oil that I run I thought. However, I do have a temperature controlled fan mounted on the oil cooler and an oil stat to control the other end. Also, which I believe helps the most is that all my intake air comes from the top scoop, which gives air that is typically 2 to 3DegC above ambient (after passing through the front radiator).
After having said all that I am still looking at getting more air into the engine bay (particularly as I have closed it in a little and intend to even more). I find my high pressure fuel regulator changes a bit with heat and I have got through one alternator probably down to high temperatures.
I like the idea of the NACA ducts, great gains with little effect on dynamics but can't make my mind up. Will someone else try them so I can decide, then copy
Removing the grills makes a huge difference - we worked out they take up around 30% of the effective area of the openings, so our car has the side grills (which will get changed at some point for a more open mesh) and the top grills but none in the back. Looks the business too but I guess this is personal preference.
The other option is to extend the roof scoop forwards - though there is a slight issue with the tops of the doors which you will have to get round. We have looked at this, and after much investigation its worth around 50bhp from the extra air you can get (a bigger airbox would also help) however we decided against it as we are not in need of extra power - the fuel economy of running less power is more beneficial. If you did this maybe you could tap some of the air off and use it for cooling?
If you have a flat bottom (the car not yourself!) you could put Naca ducts in the floor too and duct the air to where it is needed. The final thing we considered was to put a grill above the silencers on the flat part of the clam to help hot air escape from the silencers.
And there is also the option of Cam-coating etc the exhausts to cool things down.
Jonny
macgtech said:
Naca ducts would work well, however if they are attached to the clam you have the issue of managing the ducting when the clam is opened.
Removing the grills makes a huge difference - we worked out they take up around 30% of the effective area of the openings, so our car has the side grills (which will get changed at some point for a more open mesh) and the top grills but none in the back. Looks the business too but I guess this is personal preference.
The other option is to extend the roof scoop forwards - though there is a slight issue with the tops of the doors which you will have to get round. We have looked at this, and after much investigation its worth around 50bhp from the extra air you can get (a bigger airbox would also help) however we decided against it as we are not in need of extra power - the fuel economy of running less power is more beneficial. If you did this maybe you could tap some of the air off and use it for cooling?
If you have a flat bottom (the car not yourself!) you could put Naca ducts in the floor too and duct the air to where it is needed. The final thing we considered was to put a grill above the silencers on the flat part of the clam to help hot air escape from the silencers.
And there is also the option of Cam-coating etc the exhausts to cool things down.
Jonny
Yep, agree with the current grills. I removed the top scoop one and found (by measuring temperature) that a good flow makes its way into my air box. There is certainly some debate about the need to extend the scoop over the roof (see recent post by Ultima) and I did see a video from (be careful) a tw*t in the states, was it Maxipuss of something that showed a really good flow over the screen/roof into the scoop. I replaced the alloy grill behind the radiator to great effect, as you say the standard grills are very restrictive.Removing the grills makes a huge difference - we worked out they take up around 30% of the effective area of the openings, so our car has the side grills (which will get changed at some point for a more open mesh) and the top grills but none in the back. Looks the business too but I guess this is personal preference.
The other option is to extend the roof scoop forwards - though there is a slight issue with the tops of the doors which you will have to get round. We have looked at this, and after much investigation its worth around 50bhp from the extra air you can get (a bigger airbox would also help) however we decided against it as we are not in need of extra power - the fuel economy of running less power is more beneficial. If you did this maybe you could tap some of the air off and use it for cooling?
If you have a flat bottom (the car not yourself!) you could put Naca ducts in the floor too and duct the air to where it is needed. The final thing we considered was to put a grill above the silencers on the flat part of the clam to help hot air escape from the silencers.
And there is also the option of Cam-coating etc the exhausts to cool things down.
Jonny
I do have a very flat bottom and currenty duct air to the back of my alternator from the bottom. The only thing with doing so, more so for a road car, is the amount of rubbish that gets pulled in and makes a mess of things.
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