Recommend me a telly. (With some very numpty questions.)
Discussion
Chaps,
We have a telly. It's make by AKAI, is big and boxy and the picture is getting grotty. Mrs zcacogp bought it a long time before I even met her, and we've been married over 10 years now. It has probably had it's 16th birthday (but we didn't celebrate 'cos we are heartless gits) and if it was a person it would be saving up for driving lessons. But it's not so it isn't.
It is plugged into the TV aerial, and works quite nicely. I managed to make the sound come out of the RCA connections on the back of it a couple of years ago and it now plays through our HiFi. This was good progress.
So far, so terribly dark ages (I'm sure you will agree). Hence, in the name of progress, I am in the process of rigging up a freesat satellite TV system. I have the dish on the roof, an LNB, and some wire that goes all the way down to the lounge. But now I need both a box to unscramble the egg that will appear, and a TV to show it on. This is where it gets complex.
My eventual aim is to build a home entertainment PC, which will stream music, play DVD's and serve drinks to guests. (OK, that's a bit much but you get the picture.) (See what I did there? Picture ....) But that is the next stage. For now, I will buy a cheap freesat box that will let me know that the dish is working, and tide us over until I have built the PC.
So I need a new TV that will accept the output from both a cheap set-top freesat box, and (in due course) a multimedia PC. I don't know whether this is relevant to the discussion, but I think it's worth mentioning.
So ... the TV. Our current TV is 21 inches in diagonal. And we don't want anything much bigger than this. Yes, I know that things come in 30-ish and 40-ish and even 50-ish inches, but we certainly don't want anything bigger than about 25 inches - it will look out of place in our lounge.
I have no intention of starting a Plasma vs. LCD debate. I've read various opinions, and descriptions of how they work, and I think I'd be happy with either.
I don't know what HD is (OK, I know it is High Definition, but I am not aware of ever having seen a HD TV in my life.) I don't know whether I want it or not, or even if I would be able to use it if I had it. Does freesat do HD? Would it be worth it given I only want a small screen?
I am very happy to buy secondhand. From eBay or similar. In fact, an ideal outcome from this thread would be for simple recommendations such as "Panasonic Plasma TV's are universally great, buy model ABC123 or ABD136 or ABE139", or "Don't buy LG as they are utter doo-doo". Or "Anything by Samsung after 2005, but avoid the G-HG-7896 as it is pants". Or, even simpler, "Frankly chum, for what you want you won't notice the difference so buy the cheapest one you can find."
All advice welcomed.
Thanks.
Oli.
We have a telly. It's make by AKAI, is big and boxy and the picture is getting grotty. Mrs zcacogp bought it a long time before I even met her, and we've been married over 10 years now. It has probably had it's 16th birthday (but we didn't celebrate 'cos we are heartless gits) and if it was a person it would be saving up for driving lessons. But it's not so it isn't.
It is plugged into the TV aerial, and works quite nicely. I managed to make the sound come out of the RCA connections on the back of it a couple of years ago and it now plays through our HiFi. This was good progress.
So far, so terribly dark ages (I'm sure you will agree). Hence, in the name of progress, I am in the process of rigging up a freesat satellite TV system. I have the dish on the roof, an LNB, and some wire that goes all the way down to the lounge. But now I need both a box to unscramble the egg that will appear, and a TV to show it on. This is where it gets complex.
My eventual aim is to build a home entertainment PC, which will stream music, play DVD's and serve drinks to guests. (OK, that's a bit much but you get the picture.) (See what I did there? Picture ....) But that is the next stage. For now, I will buy a cheap freesat box that will let me know that the dish is working, and tide us over until I have built the PC.
So I need a new TV that will accept the output from both a cheap set-top freesat box, and (in due course) a multimedia PC. I don't know whether this is relevant to the discussion, but I think it's worth mentioning.
So ... the TV. Our current TV is 21 inches in diagonal. And we don't want anything much bigger than this. Yes, I know that things come in 30-ish and 40-ish and even 50-ish inches, but we certainly don't want anything bigger than about 25 inches - it will look out of place in our lounge.
I have no intention of starting a Plasma vs. LCD debate. I've read various opinions, and descriptions of how they work, and I think I'd be happy with either.
I don't know what HD is (OK, I know it is High Definition, but I am not aware of ever having seen a HD TV in my life.) I don't know whether I want it or not, or even if I would be able to use it if I had it. Does freesat do HD? Would it be worth it given I only want a small screen?
I am very happy to buy secondhand. From eBay or similar. In fact, an ideal outcome from this thread would be for simple recommendations such as "Panasonic Plasma TV's are universally great, buy model ABC123 or ABD136 or ABE139", or "Don't buy LG as they are utter doo-doo". Or "Anything by Samsung after 2005, but avoid the G-HG-7896 as it is pants". Or, even simpler, "Frankly chum, for what you want you won't notice the difference so buy the cheapest one you can find."
All advice welcomed.
Thanks.
Oli.
HD describes the number of lines on the picture. The old TV was 480 lines. New TV's are either 720 or 1080. The capacity of the human eye to make out detail is limited, so under 40 inches 720 will be fine. Especially at 25 or so inches. Also, plasmas aren't really made in that size, so you'll be getting a 720p LCD screen IMO.
So far as brand etc, I dunno.
Do note, that if your plan for the media PC is to connect it directly to the screen you MAY benefit from a higher res (1080) screen as you can then use it as a decent monitor too. Also, if you're not planning on connecting the graphics card of the media PC directly to the screen then you'll need a 'media extender' which is a box which connects to your home network and pulls the media files off the file server and then renders them for the screen. (e.g. an xbox 360 can plan audio and video files from a media server, which it connects to via the LAN.) You'll find that some TV's these days will come with the media server built in. It'll be called DLNA or UPnP. However if you buy the TV without a media extender built in then you can always get a standalone one for not too much money in the future.
HTH?
So far as brand etc, I dunno.
Do note, that if your plan for the media PC is to connect it directly to the screen you MAY benefit from a higher res (1080) screen as you can then use it as a decent monitor too. Also, if you're not planning on connecting the graphics card of the media PC directly to the screen then you'll need a 'media extender' which is a box which connects to your home network and pulls the media files off the file server and then renders them for the screen. (e.g. an xbox 360 can plan audio and video files from a media server, which it connects to via the LAN.) You'll find that some TV's these days will come with the media server built in. It'll be called DLNA or UPnP. However if you buy the TV without a media extender built in then you can always get a standalone one for not too much money in the future.
HTH?
MrMr,
Thanks. That did help.
The media PC would be a complete PC; mythbuntu based, or similar. And I'd be very unlikely to want to use the screen as a monitor in any serious way; it would be for watching TV, DVD's and that's about it. The PC would also act as a media player, but would connect directly to the network to achieve that (network cable already laid from my file server PC upstairs in readiness.)
And, yes, I would be connecting the graphics card of the PC directly to the screen, so presumably wouldn't need a 'media extender' box. (How else would you connect it?)
And, given this, what sort of cable would I use to connect the graphics card to the screen? Computer monitors come with SVGA (probably more up-to-date) D-shaped plugs with screws each side. Current TV's seem to have SCART (which I have come across on DVD players) and HDMI (which I have seen pictures of). Which would I use for connecting the TV to the graphics card? Or do modern TV's come with those D-shaped connectors as well?
LCD vs. Plasma - thanks. That's helpful.
Oli.
ETA - your answer suggests that I wasn't clear enough in my original post; the PC I will build for the lounge will have a DVD drive in it and play DVD's from that drive. It will also connect to the home network I have, and play music files from a machine elsewhere on the network (and hopefully show photos from there as well.) The yet-to-be-built lounge PC will connect straight to the yet-to-be-bought TV. Sorry if this wasn't clear originally.
Thanks. That did help.
The media PC would be a complete PC; mythbuntu based, or similar. And I'd be very unlikely to want to use the screen as a monitor in any serious way; it would be for watching TV, DVD's and that's about it. The PC would also act as a media player, but would connect directly to the network to achieve that (network cable already laid from my file server PC upstairs in readiness.)
And, yes, I would be connecting the graphics card of the PC directly to the screen, so presumably wouldn't need a 'media extender' box. (How else would you connect it?)
And, given this, what sort of cable would I use to connect the graphics card to the screen? Computer monitors come with SVGA (probably more up-to-date) D-shaped plugs with screws each side. Current TV's seem to have SCART (which I have come across on DVD players) and HDMI (which I have seen pictures of). Which would I use for connecting the TV to the graphics card? Or do modern TV's come with those D-shaped connectors as well?
LCD vs. Plasma - thanks. That's helpful.
Oli.
ETA - your answer suggests that I wasn't clear enough in my original post; the PC I will build for the lounge will have a DVD drive in it and play DVD's from that drive. It will also connect to the home network I have, and play music files from a machine elsewhere on the network (and hopefully show photos from there as well.) The yet-to-be-built lounge PC will connect straight to the yet-to-be-bought TV. Sorry if this wasn't clear originally.
Edited by zcacogp on Friday 2nd September 19:53
I had a 26" TV up until last weekend. This had a Humax Freesat HD box and a custom built media centre going into the TV via an amp.
HDMI cables used between everything.
I now have a 37" TV which has a Freesat HD and Freeview HD tuner built into it. Now only the Media centre and the Wii go into the TV via the amp via HDMI cables.
It's quite a good time to buy a new TV as this years line up has just come out, so you can get some brilliant bargains on last years models. 3D seems to be the big thing this year, but on a 26" TV I don't think it'd be worth the money to go 3D. You won't be immersed into it unless your nose is touching the screen.
Samsung and Panasonic sell TV's with Freesat HD built into them. You'll be limited to LCD with that screen size. Mind as well get a well specced HD TV (can you get a non HD TV these days!?) as HD will just get more and more popular. You can get Freesat and Freeview in SD and HD variants. Also chuck a Blu Ray drive into the media centre and that'll cater for all films out there. Hd film, HD Freesat, HD TV. Sorted.
HDMI cables used between everything.
I now have a 37" TV which has a Freesat HD and Freeview HD tuner built into it. Now only the Media centre and the Wii go into the TV via the amp via HDMI cables.
It's quite a good time to buy a new TV as this years line up has just come out, so you can get some brilliant bargains on last years models. 3D seems to be the big thing this year, but on a 26" TV I don't think it'd be worth the money to go 3D. You won't be immersed into it unless your nose is touching the screen.
Samsung and Panasonic sell TV's with Freesat HD built into them. You'll be limited to LCD with that screen size. Mind as well get a well specced HD TV (can you get a non HD TV these days!?) as HD will just get more and more popular. You can get Freesat and Freeview in SD and HD variants. Also chuck a Blu Ray drive into the media centre and that'll cater for all films out there. Hd film, HD Freesat, HD TV. Sorted.
zcacogp said:
ETA - your answer suggests that I wasn't clear enough in my original post; the PC I will build for the lounge will have a DVD drive in it and play DVD's from that drive. It will also connect to the home network I have, and play music files from a machine elsewhere on the network (and hopefully show photos from there as well.) The yet-to-be-built lounge PC will connect straight to the yet-to-be-bought TV. Sorry if this wasn't clear originally.
Ok, then the PC in the lounge is performing the function of a media extender. It wouldn't need to be a full blown PC just to show music/photos/video from the machine which is elsewhere on your network. The full blown PC option will be expensive, noisy and hot. If you just want to play stuff back then you can use a DLNA Server and Client.Edited by zcacogp on Friday 2nd September 19:53
Basically the 'server' would be the 'machine elsewhere on the network' which would need to be running DLNA media server software, something like Twonkymedia would do the job. That then creates a stream over the network that DLNA clients can connect to and then play. So all you'd need in the lounge is the client box, something like this, which is £50.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/viewsonic-vmp73-hd-media-p...
Gingerbread man - thanks. I don't think we are likely to go 3D in a hurry, and I am quite happy for this TV not to be 3D. Out of interest, what did you do with your old telly?
Mrmr96, now this is getting more interesting. MUCH more interesting - thanks. I understand the server:client thing (the machine-elsewhere-on-the-network is a Ubuntu machine, and google suggests that I can find DLNA servers for that pretty readily). But - and forgive my ignorance - what does that box do? At a glance, it allows you to play stuff that is elsewhere on the network on your TV. I presume it has a network port on the back of it? (Or does it run wirelessly? I'd want to run it wired for preference - quicker and more stable). How do you select what you want to view from the network? Does it have a remote controller? (There isn't one pictured.)
If I was to buy one of those then I would also need to get a Freesat receiver box, I am assuming? And have a separate DVD player (which we already have)? The point of building a dedicated machine to do all three is that it is less boxes in the lounge and more elegant. (And there is the satisfaction factor of building it!) But - as you rightly say - it would be expensive and noisy and expensive to run if it was left on all the time.
I am presuming that if I wanted PVR-functionality that would need to be in the freesat box?
Thanks for your input. I had thought that this would be a thread on TV's; it's actually turned into something much more useful.
Oli.
Mrmr96, now this is getting more interesting. MUCH more interesting - thanks. I understand the server:client thing (the machine-elsewhere-on-the-network is a Ubuntu machine, and google suggests that I can find DLNA servers for that pretty readily). But - and forgive my ignorance - what does that box do? At a glance, it allows you to play stuff that is elsewhere on the network on your TV. I presume it has a network port on the back of it? (Or does it run wirelessly? I'd want to run it wired for preference - quicker and more stable). How do you select what you want to view from the network? Does it have a remote controller? (There isn't one pictured.)
If I was to buy one of those then I would also need to get a Freesat receiver box, I am assuming? And have a separate DVD player (which we already have)? The point of building a dedicated machine to do all three is that it is less boxes in the lounge and more elegant. (And there is the satisfaction factor of building it!) But - as you rightly say - it would be expensive and noisy and expensive to run if it was left on all the time.
I am presuming that if I wanted PVR-functionality that would need to be in the freesat box?
Thanks for your input. I had thought that this would be a thread on TV's; it's actually turned into something much more useful.
Oli.
Edited by zcacogp on Saturday 3rd September 19:57
I put my 26" into my bedroom.I now have a 24" CRT sitting on the bedroom floor awaiting my decision on it's faite. Pain really as it's perfectly good, just not HD.
My media centre play Dvd's/ Blu Rays via a DVD drive. It has 2tb (I think, I can't remember!) hard drives backed up in a raid 1 array with all of my music copied onto them and all of my SD films ripped to them. This takes car of the film and music side.
It's not the smallest unit in the world but I needed the storage capacity on board. You can get them about the size of the Wii.
I originally thought of getting a Freesat HD tuner for it so that I could record from it onto my hard discs and just have an all in one box system But instead I got a TV with Freesat HD built in.
Mine sits under neither my TV linked by one HDMI and then an ethernet cable to my router. It's pretty quiet if I'm honest as you get passively cooled graphics card and passively cooled, or very quiet fans for the CPU. Basicly you keep noise in mind when you build it.
I put mine to sleep, so it can be up and running the media centre program in seconds.
My media centre play Dvd's/ Blu Rays via a DVD drive. It has 2tb (I think, I can't remember!) hard drives backed up in a raid 1 array with all of my music copied onto them and all of my SD films ripped to them. This takes car of the film and music side.
It's not the smallest unit in the world but I needed the storage capacity on board. You can get them about the size of the Wii.
I originally thought of getting a Freesat HD tuner for it so that I could record from it onto my hard discs and just have an all in one box system But instead I got a TV with Freesat HD built in.
Mine sits under neither my TV linked by one HDMI and then an ethernet cable to my router. It's pretty quiet if I'm honest as you get passively cooled graphics card and passively cooled, or very quiet fans for the CPU. Basicly you keep noise in mind when you build it.
I put mine to sleep, so it can be up and running the media centre program in seconds.
zcacogp said:
Mrmr96, now this is getting more interesting. MUCH more interesting - thanks. I understand the server:client thing (the machine-elsewhere-on-the-network is a Ubuntu machine, and google suggests that I can find DLNA servers for that pretty readily). But - and forgive my ignorance - what does that box do? At a glance, it allows you to play stuff that is elsewhere on the network on your TV. I presume it has a network port on the back of it? (Or does it run wirelessly? I'd want to run it wired for preference - quicker and more stable). How do you select what you want to view from the network? Does it have a remote controller? (There isn't one pictured.)
That box basically has a LAN socket on one side and a video out socket on the other.It will have a remote control and an interface which is displayed on the TV screen so you can browse through the media which has been made available to the client from the server. You can usually browse by 'folder' or by 'artist/album' etc. Then select what you want and the media is streamed over the LAN as 'data' and this box renders it into video and audio signals for the telly.
zcacogp said:
If I was to buy one of those then I would also need to get a Freesat receiver box, I am assuming? And have a separate DVD player (which we already have)? The point of building a dedicated machine to do all three is that it is less boxes in the lounge and more elegant. (And there is the satisfaction factor of building it!) But - as you rightly say - it would be expensive and noisy and expensive to run if it was left on all the time.
I am presuming that if I wanted PVR-functionality that would need to be in the freesat box?
Regards features, I selected this one because it is (as far as I can tell) just a DLNA client box. You can get convergent devices that do lots of things in the one box, but they will of course cost more.I am presuming that if I wanted PVR-functionality that would need to be in the freesat box?
I'd expect that someone somewhere will sell either a Freesat HD decoder box (with a PVR probably) which ALSO incorporates the DLNA client. Or similarly you might find a DVD player which also has this in. Heck, some TV's you can get these days have the DLNA client built right in: i.e. the TV has a LAN socket on it and you just point that at the DLNA server on the network.
Generally 'media PC's for the lounge fall under two categories i) custom built jobbies which run quiet but are VERY expensive, ii) bodge jobs which are cheaper but huge, hot and loud. I'd recommend getting one of these 'ready made' type boxes which does all the jobs and is designed for it, if that makes sense. See what features you want and see if you can find a convergent device that does everything you need, may be one or two boxes I reckon since Freesat boxes don't tend to include DVD players but either one might be home to your PVR (best in the freesat box) and either might be home to your DLNA client (again, most likely the freesat box).
OK, I did a REALLY quick google and this was literally the first hit, so I dunno if it's any good, but it proves these convergent products exist:
http://www.electronicempire.co.uk/dvd-home-cinema/...
- Freesat
- PVR
- DVD
- DLNA
one box
This one is £319, but like I said, its just the first one I stumbled across just to prove they exist in the market. A bit more research might yeild a specific model which is good value.
http://www.electronicempire.co.uk/dvd-home-cinema/...
- Freesat
- PVR
- DVD
- DLNA
one box
This one is £319, but like I said, its just the first one I stumbled across just to prove they exist in the market. A bit more research might yeild a specific model which is good value.
GingerbreadMan, sounds like you have done pretty much what I was planning to do; create a dedicated machine to run a number of functions. Snag is that Mrmr96 is coming up with an alternative ...
Mrmr96, thanks for the explanation. I now understand. And ... you have presented me with a quandry! Given that we already own a DVD player, I can see the appeal of buying a second-hand Freesat box with a PVR (Humax seem to do the best ones, and they seem to go for between £50 and £100 on eBay.) A DLNA client would be - as you said - around £50 and away we go ...
It doesn't have the elegance of an all-in-one dedicated machine, and I already had an old machine ready to go for just the job (old Dell thing, free from a friend. I had even planned the case I was going to build for it - something involving hardwood and slate ... sad git that I am!)
However I am coming 'round to liking the idea of separate parts. It'll probably cost less than £130, and will allow me to dip my toe in the water gently. And will also remove one potential variable from a newly-built system (if I was to build a dedicated computer and I couldn't make it work, I'd be wondering whether the fault was in the machine or in the dish setup.)
OK, I have made my mind up. Many thanks. I can see the route ahead ...
Now all I need is a telly to see it all on. Anyone have any recommendations?
Oli.
Mrmr96, thanks for the explanation. I now understand. And ... you have presented me with a quandry! Given that we already own a DVD player, I can see the appeal of buying a second-hand Freesat box with a PVR (Humax seem to do the best ones, and they seem to go for between £50 and £100 on eBay.) A DLNA client would be - as you said - around £50 and away we go ...
It doesn't have the elegance of an all-in-one dedicated machine, and I already had an old machine ready to go for just the job (old Dell thing, free from a friend. I had even planned the case I was going to build for it - something involving hardwood and slate ... sad git that I am!)
However I am coming 'round to liking the idea of separate parts. It'll probably cost less than £130, and will allow me to dip my toe in the water gently. And will also remove one potential variable from a newly-built system (if I was to build a dedicated computer and I couldn't make it work, I'd be wondering whether the fault was in the machine or in the dish setup.)
OK, I have made my mind up. Many thanks. I can see the route ahead ...
Now all I need is a telly to see it all on. Anyone have any recommendations?
Oli.
zcacogp said:
So ... the TV. Our current TV is 21 inches in diagonal. And we don't want anything much bigger than this. Yes, I know that things come in 30-ish and 40-ish and even 50-ish inches, but we certainly don't want anything bigger than about 25 inches - it will look out of place in our lounge.
We had a 29" 4:3 format Sony that I won in a competition in about 1990. We definitely didn't want anything bigger and were given a 32" and that looked big for about 2 days then just seemed to settle into its space. Bought a 37" Panasonic Plasma and only this evening was watching a film and thinking I wish we'd got the 42".
Deva Link said:
How big is the rooom?
We had a 29" 4:3 format Sony that I won in a competition in about 1990. We definitely didn't want anything bigger and were given a 32" and that looked big for about 2 days then just seemed to settle into its space. Bought a 37" Panasonic Plasma and only this evening was watching a film and thinking I wish we'd got the 42".
Hmmm. 'Tis a slippery slope, and I don't want to be going down it! We had a 29" 4:3 format Sony that I won in a competition in about 1990. We definitely didn't want anything bigger and were given a 32" and that looked big for about 2 days then just seemed to settle into its space. Bought a 37" Panasonic Plasma and only this evening was watching a film and thinking I wish we'd got the 42".
Room is a lounge in a victorian terrace in London. Haven't the foggiest what size it is. 25ftx18ft? Maybe twice that? I really don't know. It's more a case that the current TV fits well into the alcove at the side of the chimney breast, and anything much larger would simply not fit in the space.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Hmmm. 'Tis a slippery slope, and I don't want to be going down it!
Room is a lounge in a victorian terrace in London. Haven't the foggiest what size it is. 25ftx18ft? Maybe twice that? I really don't know. It's more a case that the current TV fits well into the alcove at the side of the chimney breast, and anything much larger would simply not fit in the space.
Oli.
Well if you can't tell the size of the room to within 25ft then I'd go with your "Frankly chum, for what you want you won't notice the difference so buy the cheapest one you can find." Room is a lounge in a victorian terrace in London. Haven't the foggiest what size it is. 25ftx18ft? Maybe twice that? I really don't know. It's more a case that the current TV fits well into the alcove at the side of the chimney breast, and anything much larger would simply not fit in the space.
Oli.
Seriously, if it's got to be small then they all look pretty good due to the increased line density. (Same number of lines as a bigger TV but squashed into a smaller space).
Gassing Station | Home Cinema & Hi-Fi | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff