New Home Cinema - Newbie needs advice!
Discussion
I've just bought my first house, which is effectively a major renovation and extend project. We are at the stage of getting our first set of architect's drawings to plan out out extension.
One of the things I thought might be quite nice is a large projector screen which is mounted in the ceiling and an HD projector also in the ceiling. I don't watch an awful lot of films at home but my other half does so it might be quite nice for her.
What kind of things do I have to bare in mind at the design/building stage? Is it a good idea at all? What kind of ballpark costs are we looking at for a mid to low end setup?
The room is going to be slightly L shaped but in the region of 21 foot by 24 foot. The windows would likely be perpendicular to the screen position as I envisage it.
One of the things I thought might be quite nice is a large projector screen which is mounted in the ceiling and an HD projector also in the ceiling. I don't watch an awful lot of films at home but my other half does so it might be quite nice for her.
What kind of things do I have to bare in mind at the design/building stage? Is it a good idea at all? What kind of ballpark costs are we looking at for a mid to low end setup?
The room is going to be slightly L shaped but in the region of 21 foot by 24 foot. The windows would likely be perpendicular to the screen position as I envisage it.
Absolutle minimum you'll need to allow for at this point is this:
1. Screen and power for it (unless you go for a fixed model, which is cheaper but on show all the time.
2. Power point and HDMI cable available at the projector's position *.
3. Speaker cabling for at least 5.1 (which should include a suitable cable to connect your chosen subwoofer if going for the usual 'satellite' plus sub setup. If might need to be a screened phono cable rather than a 'speaker' cable you see.
4. You need to make sure that the ceiling can take the weight of the projector, or that (as in my case) it can be mounted on a bookcase/shelf at the rear of the room.
* This can't be just anywhere as you need to deceide how big the screen will be, how far away the projector will be and then research if the models in your price range will be able to accomodate: It might mean that you have to put the projector closer (or further away) to fall into the adjustment range otherwise you'll have a picture too big or too small for your screen. It's a kind of chicken and egg situation so you need to at least look into possible purchases to get a feel for distances and screen sizes: DLP types tend to be less flexible compared to LCD and LCOS/DILA. LCD tend to give less contrast, DLP more punchy image and LCOS/DILA tend to have the best on/off contrast (ie better with dark scenes which many films have).
I terms of pricing, you could get a screen for a few hundred pounds, plus cabling for another hundred. But with all things AV there are compromises and alternatives, so you could easily spend £1,500 on a screen for example. You might think this is crazy, but my first screen started to curl at the edges and had a distracting 'surface' that I could 'see' during panning. It was also the standard 16:9 shape and I found most films I watch have the black bars top and bottom (2.35/2.40:1). My second screen has tab tensioning to keep it nice and flat, has a smooth surface so it looks invisible as if the picture is just appearing in space, finally it's also 2.35:1 aspect so most of my films don't have any black bars. Three years on I'm still enjoying a perfect screen and the price is long forgotten, I don't think I'd still be using a projector with the results I got with the original screen...
Best advice is to have a good read on AVForums' projector section...they'll ask you budget and offer options (not all of them above your budget
).
1. Screen and power for it (unless you go for a fixed model, which is cheaper but on show all the time.
2. Power point and HDMI cable available at the projector's position *.
3. Speaker cabling for at least 5.1 (which should include a suitable cable to connect your chosen subwoofer if going for the usual 'satellite' plus sub setup. If might need to be a screened phono cable rather than a 'speaker' cable you see.
4. You need to make sure that the ceiling can take the weight of the projector, or that (as in my case) it can be mounted on a bookcase/shelf at the rear of the room.
* This can't be just anywhere as you need to deceide how big the screen will be, how far away the projector will be and then research if the models in your price range will be able to accomodate: It might mean that you have to put the projector closer (or further away) to fall into the adjustment range otherwise you'll have a picture too big or too small for your screen. It's a kind of chicken and egg situation so you need to at least look into possible purchases to get a feel for distances and screen sizes: DLP types tend to be less flexible compared to LCD and LCOS/DILA. LCD tend to give less contrast, DLP more punchy image and LCOS/DILA tend to have the best on/off contrast (ie better with dark scenes which many films have).
I terms of pricing, you could get a screen for a few hundred pounds, plus cabling for another hundred. But with all things AV there are compromises and alternatives, so you could easily spend £1,500 on a screen for example. You might think this is crazy, but my first screen started to curl at the edges and had a distracting 'surface' that I could 'see' during panning. It was also the standard 16:9 shape and I found most films I watch have the black bars top and bottom (2.35/2.40:1). My second screen has tab tensioning to keep it nice and flat, has a smooth surface so it looks invisible as if the picture is just appearing in space, finally it's also 2.35:1 aspect so most of my films don't have any black bars. Three years on I'm still enjoying a perfect screen and the price is long forgotten, I don't think I'd still be using a projector with the results I got with the original screen...
Best advice is to have a good read on AVForums' projector section...they'll ask you budget and offer options (not all of them above your budget
).Edited by OldSkoolRS on Wednesday 1st February 17:01
Thanks very much! It is going to be such a long project, probably two years that in truth at the moment all I need is to be able to specify positions, dimensions of voids in the ceiling etc and know what cables to run and where to. Also any simple things I can do to improve acoustics without really costing anything would be useful to know.
Ok, we've finalised our layout and ditched the idea of a projector, instead we will have a large TV above the fireplace.
Could anyone give me some pointers on installing a discrete 7.1 system for the lounge/kitchen? I'm looking for ceiling/wall mounted and the budget is relatively modest as I certainly wouldn't describe myself as an audiophile! It will be used for general film use and a bit of music.
Here's what we've got to work with:
Could anyone give me some pointers on installing a discrete 7.1 system for the lounge/kitchen? I'm looking for ceiling/wall mounted and the budget is relatively modest as I certainly wouldn't describe myself as an audiophile! It will be used for general film use and a bit of music.
Here's what we've got to work with:
Where is the TV going to go? It might effect whether it's worth going to 7.1. Any 7.1 amp can downmix the extra two channels back into 5.1 so you don't lose any sound effects. In some cases it's of little benefit going to 7.1 unless you have a particular layout where the rears can go a decent way back from the main seating (as I happen to have, but TBH it's only gilding the lilly, it sounded pretty good just as 5.1). You'll save on speaker cost (or be able to buy better ones which might be more worthwhile than having 7.1 as well), plus fewer cables to run.
Finally, you need to change the thread title as it's no longer a cinema room; it's a 'big TV' room now.
Finally, you need to change the thread title as it's no longer a cinema room; it's a 'big TV' room now.
I'd be looking at putting the surrounds either side of the seating, either in the ceiling as you mentioned or simply wall mounted at each side of the room. If you put 7.1 in then the surround backs would end up in the kitchen which would sound a bit odd for anyone in there as you just get the odd bit of echo/ambience plus the occasional gunshot/soundeffect.
I'm a bit out of touch with what's available new in speaker terms (I bought most of my gear used a couple of years ago...higher end but good prices). Howwever, it might be worth looking at M&K as they make some reasonably discrete speakers that can sound much better than a typical all in one sort of setup. They make tripole surrounds (I have the much older versions K4) that really spread the surround effect well. Other makes to consider would be XTZ (which I think you can have on a short trial) or KEFs for ceiling mounted setups (no experience of these, but seen a few in 'readers setups' on AVforums).
I'm a bit out of touch with what's available new in speaker terms (I bought most of my gear used a couple of years ago...higher end but good prices). Howwever, it might be worth looking at M&K as they make some reasonably discrete speakers that can sound much better than a typical all in one sort of setup. They make tripole surrounds (I have the much older versions K4) that really spread the surround effect well. Other makes to consider would be XTZ (which I think you can have on a short trial) or KEFs for ceiling mounted setups (no experience of these, but seen a few in 'readers setups' on AVforums).
Digger said:
If all the tv image will be viewed above your eyeline when seated, i would consider lowering the tv to reduce the risk of eye and neck strain. Not a necessity, just thought it worth mentioning.
It's all being built from scratch so I can pretty much do what I like, within reason.In case you were considering the screen option again, there are some bargains to be had at Sevenoaks with between 60 - 70% off on some old warehouse stock. They have some in-ceiling/wall speakers on offer at the mo too.
http://marketing.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk/new...
If you mount a screen on the chimney breast, make sure you take in to consideration where the centre speaker is going to go. I have all my cabling built in to walls, floors etc, there is nothing on display...except for one minor hiccup and that's that I had nowhere for a centre speaker to go. If I wall mounted it, it would just look silly so in the end I opted to just have the centre speaker hidden behind my sofa and it comes out when I need it. It's not ideal, but the room looks nice and not ruined by having a massive speaker bolted to the wall.
http://marketing.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk/new...
If you mount a screen on the chimney breast, make sure you take in to consideration where the centre speaker is going to go. I have all my cabling built in to walls, floors etc, there is nothing on display...except for one minor hiccup and that's that I had nowhere for a centre speaker to go. If I wall mounted it, it would just look silly so in the end I opted to just have the centre speaker hidden behind my sofa and it comes out when I need it. It's not ideal, but the room looks nice and not ruined by having a massive speaker bolted to the wall.
I have just completed a build with a projector and screen as you are/were proposing. My advice would be if you can put the screen in then do it as it is a whole world of difference between a large TV and a screen. Films now are an event and it is great for sport with a few mates around. Six nations rugby this year was excellent viewing on the screen.
You are more than welcome to come round and see it in action and there are a mass of things to work out and consider in both the design and fitting stage but nothing too difficult. You just have to be very thorough.
As for speakers in the ceiling have a look at some second hand Triads. Expensive new but can be found at reasonable cost second hand. Looking at £300 - £350 per speaker.
http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
You are more than welcome to come round and see it in action and there are a mass of things to work out and consider in both the design and fitting stage but nothing too difficult. You just have to be very thorough.
As for speakers in the ceiling have a look at some second hand Triads. Expensive new but can be found at reasonable cost second hand. Looking at £300 - £350 per speaker.
http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Basically, if you haven't had surround sound before anything will sound good!.
My current fav's are Monitor Audio at the Budget to Mid range and then Artcoustic and PMC for the upper (few and far between) ranges.
You could go for something from the Radius HD range if you want on-walls or the 100/200 ranges for in-ceiling (not ideal but perfectly workable) or even a mix of On Walls for the front and in-ceilings for the rear.
Happy to chat it through further if you want to. A couple of peeps here could also be a reference if you need to.
V.
My current fav's are Monitor Audio at the Budget to Mid range and then Artcoustic and PMC for the upper (few and far between) ranges.
You could go for something from the Radius HD range if you want on-walls or the 100/200 ranges for in-ceiling (not ideal but perfectly workable) or even a mix of On Walls for the front and in-ceilings for the rear.
Happy to chat it through further if you want to. A couple of peeps here could also be a reference if you need to.
V.
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