plaster in wall speakers
Discussion
Hello all.
Well I'm just about to move house and gain an extra living room :-)
I've already got a set of monitor audio apex which Mrs Virgil will just about tollerate for the 'adult' lounge which will be kid and clutter free (I hope), but need to find something for the rest of the house...looking at ceiling speakers for the kitchen and dining room (back ground music only really) but want something for the 'day lounge' where the kids will hang out. Basically Mrs V thinks speakers 'shoudl not exist' so looking for magic options...
Seen the plaster in ones, but has anyone had first hand (ear?) experience of them and what if someone leans on the wall where the speaker is? does the plaster crack and you put your hand through the speaker??? Thinking of kids and stuff getting chucked about....
Well I'm just about to move house and gain an extra living room :-)
I've already got a set of monitor audio apex which Mrs Virgil will just about tollerate for the 'adult' lounge which will be kid and clutter free (I hope), but need to find something for the rest of the house...looking at ceiling speakers for the kitchen and dining room (back ground music only really) but want something for the 'day lounge' where the kids will hang out. Basically Mrs V thinks speakers 'shoudl not exist' so looking for magic options...
Seen the plaster in ones, but has anyone had first hand (ear?) experience of them and what if someone leans on the wall where the speaker is? does the plaster crack and you put your hand through the speaker??? Thinking of kids and stuff getting chucked about....
In to music? Yes.
Allowed to play music 'properly'? err...no...
'Proper' speakers aren't allowed in the house.
Best I was able to get away with in current house are satellites...Monitor Audio Apex 10s and they caused a row when they went up because they are SO BIG! My BIL's MA floor standers sound great but to Mrs V. are 'an abomination' and 'an eye sore'! Still trying to work out how to hide the MA sub in the new house!
The 'wall speakers' will mainly be for tv sound (sofa will be 15-16ft from the TV and slim TV sound is RUBBISH...wanted to see what the options were compared to ceiling speakers or visible in wall jobies..
Allowed to play music 'properly'? err...no...
'Proper' speakers aren't allowed in the house.
Best I was able to get away with in current house are satellites...Monitor Audio Apex 10s and they caused a row when they went up because they are SO BIG! My BIL's MA floor standers sound great but to Mrs V. are 'an abomination' and 'an eye sore'! Still trying to work out how to hide the MA sub in the new house!
The 'wall speakers' will mainly be for tv sound (sofa will be 15-16ft from the TV and slim TV sound is RUBBISH...wanted to see what the options were compared to ceiling speakers or visible in wall jobies..
I sound a bit like your wife! I hate seeing speakers but wanted a bit more oomph - settled for a panasonic soundbar something or other which I have to say is fantastic.
I have split it and mounted it to each side of the tv in the alcove and it looks fine.
We had a customer who wanted hidden speakers and we built some small bose speakers into his sofa tables and sideboards so they were a bit more hidden. Infact we also cut the bottom out of his sofa and put the sub in there!
I have split it and mounted it to each side of the tv in the alcove and it looks fine.
We had a customer who wanted hidden speakers and we built some small bose speakers into his sofa tables and sideboards so they were a bit more hidden. Infact we also cut the bottom out of his sofa and put the sub in there!
How about some on walls such as the Artcoustic speakers? Not heard them myself, but was considering them as a cheaper alternative to some PMC on walls for surround duties.
http://www.artcoustic.com/
They can put pictures on them from their own stock or you own pictures if you like.
Having a decent sound system and keeping it from looking like a hifi shop is a hard balance, but it depends on your priorities I suppose. At least my subwoofer looks like a table and does the same job of keeping a lamp and some pictures off the floor.
I've even been asked where the bass is coming from and had to point it out...
http://www.artcoustic.com/
They can put pictures on them from their own stock or you own pictures if you like.
Having a decent sound system and keeping it from looking like a hifi shop is a hard balance, but it depends on your priorities I suppose. At least my subwoofer looks like a table and does the same job of keeping a lamp and some pictures off the floor.
I've even been asked where the bass is coming from and had to point it out...Personally i don't like the plaster in/over ones.
I have used the Stealth Accoustic's version with great effect as you plaster to the edge of them rather than over the top of them.
This way they can have a full response range and fit in a NXT drive and a bass unit.
Alternatively, if you like the Monitor Audio sound look at the Radius HD range, which I really like for their descrete looks, also look at their sound frames and their shadow range.
Artcoustic is cracking, but can be costly if you get carried away.
V.
I have used the Stealth Accoustic's version with great effect as you plaster to the edge of them rather than over the top of them.
This way they can have a full response range and fit in a NXT drive and a bass unit.
Alternatively, if you like the Monitor Audio sound look at the Radius HD range, which I really like for their descrete looks, also look at their sound frames and their shadow range.
Artcoustic is cracking, but can be costly if you get carried away.
V.
Edited by VEX on Saturday 1st September 17:35
OldSkoolRS said:
How about some on walls such as the Artcoustic speakers? Not heard them myself, but was considering them as a cheaper alternative to some PMC on walls for surround duties.
http://www.artcoustic.com/
They can put pictures on them from their own stock or you own pictures if you like.
Having a decent sound system and keeping it from looking like a hifi shop is a hard balance, but it depends on your priorities I suppose. At least my subwoofer looks like a table and does the same job of keeping a lamp and some pictures off the floor. I've even been asked where the bass is coming from and had to point it out...
We use a lot of these and the sound quality is great - boxed speaker type of great. The range is huge so you can normally make them work aesthetically.http://www.artcoustic.com/
They can put pictures on them from their own stock or you own pictures if you like.
Having a decent sound system and keeping it from looking like a hifi shop is a hard balance, but it depends on your priorities I suppose. At least my subwoofer looks like a table and does the same job of keeping a lamp and some pictures off the floor.
I've even been asked where the bass is coming from and had to point it out...Course I am biased - we are one of their biggest dealers!
If plaster in is the only way forward you could also look at the Sonance IS range and the new Speakercraft range too.
Ultimately the way they sell!
I have done 10 years of home building / self building shows and they exhibit to. But they show the concept of hidden speakers but never show, talk about or play music that need good bass. So totally misleading unknowing punters, we soon put them straight if the idea is talked about on our stand.
The stealths are a similar price and provide an excellent full range response. They even did a plaster in sub and separate amp at one point. There is a rangers football players apartment with a full 5.1 system in it and it is a cracking sound.
Equally, some of the slimline /architectural in-wall / ceilings blend and disappear so well now that for the cost / performance there is nothing to compare.
All IMHO obviously.
V.
I have done 10 years of home building / self building shows and they exhibit to. But they show the concept of hidden speakers but never show, talk about or play music that need good bass. So totally misleading unknowing punters, we soon put them straight if the idea is talked about on our stand.
The stealths are a similar price and provide an excellent full range response. They even did a plaster in sub and separate amp at one point. There is a rangers football players apartment with a full 5.1 system in it and it is a cracking sound.
Equally, some of the slimline /architectural in-wall / ceilings blend and disappear so well now that for the cost / performance there is nothing to compare.
All IMHO obviously.
V.
Good luck Toxic. Happy to help outif you need access to hardware.
Where are you based? If I pick anything up in your area then it would be good to know I could do it with a local pm/contractor.
Also if you need a good Sparkie, I har a friend who is just doing the same as you har and I did 2years ago. He is base on the M4 Reading / Swindon way.
Chat soon or on PM if you want.
V.
Where are you based? If I pick anything up in your area then it would be good to know I could do it with a local pm/contractor.
Also if you need a good Sparkie, I har a friend who is just doing the same as you har and I did 2years ago. He is base on the M4 Reading / Swindon way.
Chat soon or on PM if you want.
V.
What about the KEF ones in this av forum thread?
http://www.avforums.com/forums/members-home-cinema-gallery/1551974-loft-cinema-2011-a-3.html
http://www.avforums.com/forums/members-home-cinema-gallery/1551974-loft-cinema-2011-a-3.html
We have used Amina speakers extensively and if they are installed and applied properly, then they can sound amazing. They are launch a new Evolution 750 speaker soon which has a separate plaster over bass unit. We have also used Stealths to good effect and the demo I had of the new Sonance ones was very promising too. In my experience, the Amina's are the easiest to make completely invisible as they are skimmed over. I can usually spot where a Stealth has been fitted as it's harder to blend them in as smoothly.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend any of them, but would always advise using them with a sub for anything other than background music.
I like the fact that they are designed and actually made in the UK and they're a great bunch of guys to deal with. Our next project has 136 of them going in!
Toxic - drop me an email through my profile when you get 5 minutes.
Cheers
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend any of them, but would always advise using them with a sub for anything other than background music.
I like the fact that they are designed and actually made in the UK and they're a great bunch of guys to deal with. Our next project has 136 of them going in!
Toxic - drop me an email through my profile when you get 5 minutes.
Cheers
Edited by hughjayteens on Monday 3rd September 10:32
Thanks guys...great feedback..
As far as the Amina range go, what are the ones you gus have used...they seem to start at around 550quid each and shoo pretty quickly up to 1100 each! Serious money!
ANyone know of anywhere where they can be demoed either central london or south east essex (southend) way...
Sounds really interesting, just don't want to shell out loads of money for them to just sound wierd!
As far as the Amina range go, what are the ones you gus have used...they seem to start at around 550quid each and shoo pretty quickly up to 1100 each! Serious money!
ANyone know of anywhere where they can be demoed either central london or south east essex (southend) way...
Sounds really interesting, just don't want to shell out loads of money for them to just sound wierd!
I do like the sound of those plaster over speakers and I am pretty happy with the 2nd Hand Linn In walls I have in my kitchen/Diner. Having said that IMO there is no way I'd have anything other than floor standers if I could fit them in. My lounge setup proves this
In your situation I'd definitely be taking full advantage of the fact the space is flexible to have something meaty at the front, then go for something discrete for the rears. TBH I'd even be tempted to do away with a centre, after trying out various configurations I have concluded that a phantom centre sounds better to me if you are seated in the ideal position, the centre makes more of a difference to me if not sat ideally
In your situation I'd definitely be taking full advantage of the fact the space is flexible to have something meaty at the front, then go for something discrete for the rears. TBH I'd even be tempted to do away with a centre, after trying out various configurations I have concluded that a phantom centre sounds better to me if you are seated in the ideal position, the centre makes more of a difference to me if not sat ideally
Like a few of you, we've used Stealth Acoustics from Habitech and they're reasonable speakers. As long as the customer understand the principle and are driven to want a clean finish, then its ok. We installed some earlier this year on a large multi-room job in the kitchen and master bedroom. When the owner had a party, she did a tour of the extensive property and one guy didn't believe she actually had speakers in the ceiling.
Used Artcoustic and can recommend them ... have a pair of Diablo monitors in my kitchen.
Used Artcoustic and can recommend them ... have a pair of Diablo monitors in my kitchen.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
VEX said:
Ultimately the way they sell!
I have done 10 years of home building / self building shows and they exhibit to. But they show the concept of hidden speakers but never show, talk about or play music that need good bass. So totally misleading unknowing punters, we soon put them straight if the idea is talked about on our stand.
The stealths are a similar price and provide an excellent full range response. They even did a plaster in sub and separate amp at one point. There is a rangers football players apartment with a full 5.1 system in it and it is a cracking sound.
Equally, some of the slimline /architectural in-wall / ceilings blend and disappear so well now that for the cost / performance there is nothing to compare.
All IMHO obviously.
V.
Hi VEX - I'd just like to comment on the suggestion that Amina may be trying to mislead in some way. I work for Amina and have just arrived back in the UK having attended the CEDIA show in Indianapolis. I have done 10 years of home building / self building shows and they exhibit to. But they show the concept of hidden speakers but never show, talk about or play music that need good bass. So totally misleading unknowing punters, we soon put them straight if the idea is talked about on our stand.
The stealths are a similar price and provide an excellent full range response. They even did a plaster in sub and separate amp at one point. There is a rangers football players apartment with a full 5.1 system in it and it is a cracking sound.
Equally, some of the slimline /architectural in-wall / ceilings blend and disappear so well now that for the cost / performance there is nothing to compare.
All IMHO obviously.
V.
Amina's standard panels work from 80Hz to 20Khz and are usually demonstrated at shows with either a stand alone passive bandpass bass unit or an active in wall subwoofer. At CEDIA this weekend we showed a 5.1 system using the new Evolution 550 panels and a Velodyne in wall sub in one room + the new flagship 4 panel Evolution 750 system, with no sub, in the second room. The programme material we used was specifically chosen to highlight the bass performance of each setup. For example the Velodyne is switched in and out of circuit during demonstrations to make it clear to all regarding the panel's bandwidth.
When setting up the bass panels of the new 750s with pink noise I measured the minus 3db point at 42Hz.
Edited by Crackie on Monday 10th September 20:25
Thanks Crackie,
Hopefully the stand for home building and renovating will change to reflect the new products.
Certainly a couple of years ago I was on your stand at the same show and when I asked where the sub was, the response was 'oh it is round here' amd was tucked out of sight under the desk type pod.
I am sure if asked, there wouldbe transparency, putative shows like that people don't askordont know to ask. That is when the need to hide separate sub becomes an issue.
Interestingly I was just reading about the new models in essential install today and thought it was worth a revisit.
V.
Hopefully the stand for home building and renovating will change to reflect the new products.
Certainly a couple of years ago I was on your stand at the same show and when I asked where the sub was, the response was 'oh it is round here' amd was tucked out of sight under the desk type pod.
I am sure if asked, there wouldbe transparency, putative shows like that people don't askordont know to ask. That is when the need to hide separate sub becomes an issue.
Interestingly I was just reading about the new models in essential install today and thought it was worth a revisit.
V.
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