Help needed setting up some old hi fi equipment

[AlexC1981]

Hi All,

I have had this stuff sitting up in the loft for probably nearly 20 years. It belonged to a friend of my brother who gave it to me as he didnt want it any more. It has been in the loft since because I didn't have any speakers and no pocket money to buy CDs with anyway!

It is a Philips CD 303 CD player and a Naim Audio NAP 110 + NAC 42 amplifier. Looking online it seems to be decent stuff so I would like to use of it, although I don't know how to make best use of it.









Apologies for the dirty photos, but it seems to be in good condition under all the dust and dirt. Lights come on both units when plugged in, however I haven't tested them yet because I haven't got any speakers.

I'm such a HiFi noob that I don't even know how speakers should be connected. The black and red connectors on the back unscrew, so I'm guessing that you just wrap the speaker wire around the connector and tighten it back up?

Two channels means it supports two speakers in stereo I assume?

Should the CD player be plugged into the tape port on the amp or the unmarked port on the right hand side? Does it make any difference? Or should I remove the adapter and plug it directly into phono ports on the left?

What other stuff should I buy to make the most of the system? At the moment I mostly listen to music from my PC or android phone, but I also have an iPod Nano. Can I somehow connect either wired or wireless to it? What would I have to buy?

I have recently purchased a swanky flat panel TV, which apparently (it's still on order) does not have the greatest sound. Can I use this equipment with the TV or would I be better off buying a new dedicated TV speaker system?

Many thanks,
Alex

Edited by AlexC1981 on Thursday 3rd January 14:30

[wurumal]

That looks pretty straight forward. For a second I thought you were scuppered with the odd proprietary input plugs on the amp, but I see you have am RCA to weird circular plug thing already so you look good to go!

I would connect the CD player to the Tape in put on the amplifier. The phono input most likely 'expects' a low level signal that would come from a turntable - so the output of the CD player would overpower it.

You're correct with regards to the speakers- just wrap the bare speaker wires around the terminals. It is a stereo (two speaker) amplifier as you say. You can get 'banana plugs' to go on the end of the speaker wire and you can plug them in to the back of the speaker terminals on the amp - but wrapping the wires around will be just fine. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fisual-Easy-Fix-Banana-Plu...

Just as an FYI, you could buy something like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/3-5mm-Phono-Stereo-Audio-C... and then you could use an iPod/iPhone/anything with a headphone plug to run through the Amp also. I'd still use the Tape input if you are connecting any other audio player to it.

[telecat]

You Basically have a Pre/Power setup. Firstly the NAC need to be correctly connected to the NAP using the correct DIN Connection. It looks like the CD player has "captive" leads and these need to be connected to the NAC using the DIN adapter. The Speaker posts would normally take "Banana" plugs although in theory you could "wrap" the speaker cable and screw them down. Personally I would use Banana plugs as it would probably be safer. Nothing blows up a Power amp like a wire shorting across the speaker posts. The NAC appears to have the dedicated input for a Turntable. DO NOT USE this for anything else as it expects a much smaller voltage then the DIN sockets. It does not look like it has much more. You would need to buy another Din to Phono and use the Tape Input as another but that would appear to be it. This unit comes from a time when a turntable, tuner and Tape deck were all you could plug in so that's all it has.

I would contact NAIM or your local dealer as they do tend to maintain this kit for years and it may need a check over. They'll also may be able to supply a manual.

www.naimaudio.com

[Super Slo Mo]

You could probably connect the CD to the Tuner input without any problem. The Tape socket will probably need a DIN - 4 RCA adaptor (not 2 RCA), as Tape usually has 'IN' and 'OUT' connections: 'OUT' so you can route your source (Tuner/Phono) to the Tape Deck for recording, 'IN' for listening to the tape deck.

The last DIN socket on the right might not be connected to anything internally.

[AlexC1981]

Thanks for the replies and the links. I have learnt a lot from this thread already.

Can I use one of these cables to connect anything with a 3.5mm aux out (like my ipod or phone) to the amplifier? Is there any significance to it being called a MIDI plug? Should it be analogue?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MIDI-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-Ca...

I could use this to swap easily between my iPod and a DAB tuner, then use the other DAC for my TV. This is what is on the back of my TV:



I could get another DIN adaptor to go from the DIN input to the AV2 output of the TV?

Can I buy a splitter cable to allow multiple inputs to the amp through one DIN? I saw a switcher box for sale online, but it is expensive.

Also, does anyone know why separate DAB tuners are so expensive? It would be cheaper to buy a stand alone DAB radio and use the aux out. Is there a downside to this?

[Mellow7]

Is that snot on the front of the power amp???

[DavidY]

[AlexC1981]

Mellow7 said:

Is that snot on the front of the power amp???

I have just cleaned them up. I didn't notice it when cleaning, so it must have been a micro-globule of...we'll call it porridge embarrassingly magnified by the photo.

[AlexC1981]

I have yet another question!

I found the manual online and it states:

The power amp type numbers are derived from the rated power into 4 ohm both channels driven.

NAP 110: 55+55 watts

I take this to mean that I have to buy 4 ohm impedance speakers with a maximum rating of 55W.

Sorry for what are probably obvious questions, but until today I had no idea that you could buy speakers with different impedance.

I can borrow some 8 ohm speakers, but could something bad happen if connected them to test the equipment?

[DavidY]

No, a good amplifier will double its output into speakers of half impedance

Ie 50W into 8ohms, 100W into 4 ohms, 200W into 2 ohms and so on.

But amplifiers often can't drive low impedance loads and certainly not for long periods! The speaker impedance is only a nominal impedance and it varies over the speakers frequency response. It is also distortion that helps kill speakers, ie an overdriven signal from an amplifier.

In your situation, the Naim is a good current driving design, it has it's limitations but not in most circumstances. I would look for a speaker that's power handling is in the range of 100w or so with an impedance between 4 and 8 ohms.

It is important with naim amplifiers to use the correct speaker cable, as naim output circuits have very little protection, and the wrong type of cable can send the output stage into oscillation. Naim recommend their own cable NACA5 and with a minimum length of 3.5m per side.

I don't know what you budget is but you can buy NACA5 or it's predecessor NACA4 on eBay readily. Naim of your period ( chrome bumper) can be quite aggressive in the treble and so don't work very well with some modern speakers (like Monitor Audio) - have a look at secondhand speakers from people like Spendor, PMC, Epos, ProAc, Rega, Etc.. if you're on a budget and want something that will really boogie with the Naims consider the Morduant Short MS10i's

Hope that helps

Edited by DavidY on Thursday 3rd January 21:04

[AlexC1981]

Thanks David, that has certainly given me a few things to think about. I am definitely leaning towards the budget end and that is £140 worth of cabling you have recommended! I did some research and the NAC A4 cabling is identical to Linn K20 cabling which can be bought for just £5 per metre, so quite a bit cheaper than £20/m for NAC A5 or A4. A minimum of 3.5m per speaker is required according to Naim.

Regarding speakers, why do you recommend going up to 100W when the manual says the amp has a 55W output? I'm not trying to pick holes in what you have said, but I'd like to understand. I live in a flat so I can never go particularly loud as I will disturb my neighbors. As I am trying to keep costs down, would it be better to get some lower wattage speakers? Sound quality and budget more important than volume. When you say older speakers would work better, how old should I go 70s to 80s? What do you think of these:?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251208728726?ssPageName=...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121046277628?ssPageName=...

I think about £75 would be the most I could justify spending on speakers as I don't think I will use the system much, I'm just trying to make use of what I already have without splashing out.

Cheers!

[AlexC1981]

I can't find any MS10i speakers for sale, but I spotted a pair of MS25, which seem to be of similar spec.

[Super Slo Mo]

Possibly because there's a possibility that on medium to high volumes, the amp could deliver a high wattage spike, which might damage your speakers, so having speakers rated higher than the amp gives you a bit of headroom, to reduce the likelihood of overloading the speaker. That's just my guess though.

If you will only ever use the system at low volumes, you might be ok with a lower power speaker, providing you're careful.

[DavidY]

When I last bought NACA5 it was £8 per metre!!! (new)

The KEFs would be passable (though older KEFs have issues with rotting rubber surrounds on the drivers), but I'd steer clear of the Dynatrons. You can do better than both those on your budget. Buying on spec is never a good thing though, as speakers really do sound different and each speaker range has sweetspots (the MS25s not being one of them)

Within your budget (you amplifiers are worthy of something a lot better though, so when you do upgrade in the future, change the source and the speakers first!) and using eBay as a guide I would suggest these:-

Look MS10i's!!! (Pearl edition as well) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mordaunt-Short-MS10i-Spe...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Royd-Audio-Sapphire-2-Ma...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Royd-Audio-A7-Series-1-M...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Castle-Durham-Booksh...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Royd-Speakers-On-Kan-Sta...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Castle-Isis-2-Way-Loudsp...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAIR-OF-KEF-Q15-SPEAKERS...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-of-quality-RUARK-Bo...

Hope that helps (my preference would be for the MS10i's, even with a missing badge!)

[DavidY]

BTW the Naim has a rated 55W output into 4 ohms per channel, it will produce approx 110W into 8ohms (Hence NAP110). The Impedance of a speaker is only nominal and will vary across the speaker range, so you are better being safe than sorry, but in general you can get away with lots of variations, on the whole is distrotion that kills speakers (ie using an amplifier that is just too low power (lack of current driving capability) into speakers). The Naim can drive drive about 12A-15A per channel so you have no issues here. I used a NAP140 with MS10i's for years with no issues, and I've even used 1.6kW monsters (capable of driving 150A) into 200W speakers (that had a sub 1 ohm dip in the impedance curve) with no issues, the additional headroom and control was simply amazing, bass notes just started and stopped precisely, and the bass at low volumes was superb.

Graph showing actual plotted impedance http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Spe...

More on nominal impedance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_impedance

(BTW you can of course kill low powered speakers with a high powered amplifier, but usually only bey playing at daft volumes or having an amplifier thats faulty)

Edited by DavidY on Friday 4th January 23:24

[P700DEE]

IMO speakers are now the most important part of your Hi-Fi as they are the least accurate part of any system and impart a greater difference to the sound than anything else. Your Naim amp will drive all but the silly speakers so you can take your choice of the many options on e-bay etc. Small bookshelf speakers tend to give a small controlled sound but lack impression of space and impact you get with big speakers. Buy unfashionable quality speakers rather than ex What Hi-Fi best buys.

Any idea of where you can put your speakers ? Floor standers avoid the need for a stand and can easily be moved out into the room where they will sound best easily. Speakers don't usually work well close to a wall.

Speaker cable just buy the thickest mains cable you can, for a laugh buy cheap 13 amp mains and you can afford to bi-wire with three cores for +ve and -ve.

[Seeker UK]

P700DEE said:

Speaker cable just buy the thickest mains cable you can, for a laugh buy cheap 13 amp mains and you can afford to bi-wire with three cores for +ve and -ve.

Naim kit gets a bit funny if you don't use NACA. Just don't forget to use a minimum of 3.5m (and the same length for left and right) otherwise you can blow the amp. The amps will need a service and a recap - if you don;t want to pay Naim, try Avondale Audio.

Buy some new interconnects (Flashback offer some good value ones - http://www.flashbacksales.co.uk/), deoxit the connectors on the back of the CD, clean the laser and off you go.

BTW, the CDP, the Philips CD-303, is one of the better 14 bit players (it's basically a rebadged Marantz CD-73 which fetches good money on the resale market) the TDA1540 is not a bad DAC.

Enjoy it.

[castex]

You're in for an absolute treat.

[Seeker UK]

I forgot. Best speakers for Nain are Epos ES11 / ES14s

[clockworks]

I bought a Naim 110 new, must be nearly 30 years ago. It was my first proper power amp.
I'm still using it now, driving the centre speaker (Quad L-ite) on my AV setup.

It's been used with a variety of speakers and cables (including 2.5mm twin and earth) over the years, and has never given me any problems.