Nice quality hi-fi drivers for the car

[griffin dai]

Hi, I'm looking for a really nice sounding front stage in the car, and I'm considering some hifi drivers over the usual car audio route for a nice SQ system.

Has anyone experienced the speakers below (especially in a car!!) and out of these what would you recommend please? (the system will be ran active from a Pioneer DEH-80PRS unit & 2 Genesis amps so no need for a separate crossover)

Mids

Peerless Vifa NE180-04
http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/peerless-vifa-ne1...

Seas U18RNX/P
http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/seas-u18rnx-p-h15...

Seas CA18RLY
http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/seas-ca18rly-h121...

Peelress 830875
http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/peerless-830874-m...

Fountek FW168
http://www.europe-audio.com/Product.asp?Product_ID...

Tweeters

NE25VTS-04
http://www.europe-audio.com/Product.asp?Product_ID...

Seas 27TFFC H0881-06
http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/seas-27tffc-h0881...

Thanks Dave

[FlossyThePig]

The environment in a car can be quite extreme for speakers compared to a domestic setting. Humidity can get very high and temperature range can go very low to very high.

How and where are you going to mount them?

[TonyRPH]

Apart from the Peerless woofer, all the drivers you selected are 8 ohm.

Unless you plan to use multiples in parallel to obtain 4 ohms, they're not going to be much good.

IIRC, Focal (amongst others) do a specialist range of drive units for vehicles.

A visit to a specialist outlet should yoeld what you want.

[M@verick]

TonyRPH said:

Apart from the Peerless woofer, all the drivers you selected are 8 ohm.

Unless you plan to use multiples in parallel to obtain 4 ohms, they're not going to be much good.

IIRC, Focal (amongst others) do a specialist range of drive units for vehicles.

A visit to a specialist outlet should yoeld what you want.

What he said.

I am not sure of the output options for the amplifier you have selected but by and large Car Audio amps expect to drive speakers with a 4 ohm load. You'll have options for a sub - generally 2 ohm or 1 ohm loads seem to be used to increase volume more than anything else - but your component speakers will want to be 4 ohm for ease of amplifier matching i would think.

For what its worth i am running some entry level Focal components - Focal Access A1's. One pair front doors, one pair rears - all getting 65 watts RMS. The resultant sound is the best i have had out of a car stereo i have run yet. These are complimented by a single 10 inch Alpine type R sub in a ported enclosure.

Also be sure to add sound deadening material wherever you can - Dynamat is expensive but there are others which can be bought on the roll for less with comparable results. I am using "Fatmat" deadening everywhere - not for Bad Boy SPL points but simply because there are all manner of surfaces in a car which will vibrate or sound tinny given half a chance when decent drivers are moving air in their vicinity - adequate sound deadening goes some way to stopping this.

Obviously - tin all cables, and melt the tinned end into any crimps you have to use and heat shrink anything exposed - this helps fight problems associated with loose connections given vibrations/moisture in a car environment.

Apologies if any of the above is teaching you to suck eggs so to speak.

And post a build thread ! - ill be interested to see what goes in and how

Regards,

R.

[griffin dai]

FlossyThePig said:

The environment in a car can be quite extreme for speakers compared to a domestic setting. Humidity can get very high and temperature range can go very low to very high.

How and where are you going to mount them?

The tweeters will replace the dash 3.5" mids, 6.5" mids in the front doors mounted on mdf rings, car fully sound deadened (as best I can get it anyway)

Rear fill will be a pair of Genesis p69 subs in the stock locations.

[griffin dai]

TonyRPH said:

Apart from the Peerless woofer, all the drivers you selected are 8 ohm.

Unless you plan to use multiples in parallel to obtain 4 ohms, they're not going to be much good.

IIRC, Focal (amongst others) do a specialist range of drive units for vehicles.

A visit to a specialist outlet should yoeld what you want.

Thanks, yeah not too bothered about the ohms mate as I'm running then all active anyway so should be ok. I've got Focals fitted at the moment but one speakers dead so fancied trying something different

[griffin dai]

M@verick said:

What he said.

I am not sure of the output options for the amplifier you have selected but by and large Car Audio amps expect to drive speakers with a 4 ohm load. You'll have options for a sub - generally 2 ohm or 1 ohm loads seem to be used to increase volume more than anything else - but your component speakers will want to be 4 ohm for ease of amplifier matching i would think.

For what its worth i am running some entry level Focal components - Focal Access A1's. One pair front doors, one pair rears - all getting 65 watts RMS. The resultant sound is the best i have had out of a car stereo i have run yet. These are complimented by a single 10 inch Alpine type R sub in a ported enclosure.

Also be sure to add sound deadening material wherever you can - Dynamat is expensive but there are others which can be bought on the roll for less with comparable results. I am using "Fatmat" deadening everywhere - not for Bad Boy SPL points but simply because there are all manner of surfaces in a car which will vibrate or sound tinny given half a chance when decent drivers are moving air in their vicinity - adequate sound deadening goes some way to stopping this.

Obviously - tin all cables, and melt the tinned end into any crimps you have to use and heat shrink anything exposed - this helps fight problems associated with loose connections given vibrations/moisture in a car environment.

Apologies if any of the above is teaching you to suck eggs so to speak.

And post a build thread ! - ill be interested to see what goes in and how

Regards,

R.

Thanks fit the reply there, not teaching me to suck eggs at all mate, more info the better

I've got some Focal K2P range fitted, I was looking at their KRX2 components but fancied some hifi drivers really. I've been given a few other options like Morel, Audison Voce but wanted to get as much info on going the hifi driver route before buying anything (budgets around £300 so want to get it right first time)

How do you find the Fatmat? I was going for Silent Coat again but always good to have an idea how other stuff performs! Dynamat is out...waaay too expensive

Amps are Genesis Four Channel (for the fronts) & Genesis Dual Mono for the P69's

I'll have a build thread on Talk Audio when I get started. Pretty big job on the new gen Saab 9-3 as the Audio is complicated and a right PITA to sort out, I'll be fitting new everywhere as its almost impossible to get a decent sound with whats fitted

Edited by griffin dai on Wednesday 24th April 18:11

[griffin dai]

WeirdNeville said:

Are you on Talk Audio?
Post this up in the SQ section there and you're likely to get a better response.

People certainly do use Vifa and Peerless mids in cars. They report successful results... but don't we all.

I'd look towards DLS, MOrel, Dynaudio, HAT, that kind of specific car audio drive. There are quite substantial differences in the way they're made, to thrive in the odd enclosures that cars provide.

Hi, yeah I'm on TA mate (same user name) just thought it a good idea to ask here aswell as its a hifi sub forum
I've had loads of advice on TA (its a fantastic forum)

[M@verick]

griffin dai said:

Thanks fit the reply there, not teaching me to suck eggs at all mate, more info the better

I've got some Focal K2P range fitted, I was looking at their KRX2 components but fancied some hifi drivers really. I've been given a few other options like Morel, Audison Voce but wanted to get as much info on going the hifi driver route before buying anything (budgets around £300 so want to get it right first time)

How do you find the Fatmat? I was going for Silent Coat again but always good to have an idea how other stuff performs! Dynamat is out...waaay too expensive

Amps are Genesis Four Channel (for the fronts) & Genesis Dual Mono for the P69's

Both the focal drivers you have quoted look lovely - and way better sensitivity and range than the Access drivers im using. Let us know how you get on with them.

I was looking at Dynamat (brand leader, always quoted etc) and thought much the same so ended up with FatMat. It seems to do the job - panels which "rang" or vibrated before application sound deader to the touch when wrapped. I have had to use two layers in a couple of places to achieve the same level of deadening to my ears - I dont think its *quite* as dense as dynamat -its quite a shiny bitumen looking substance, where as dynamat looks dull/matt finished even when worked onto an irregular surface. I do find it easier to apply than dynamat though - my preferred method was to use the missus' hairdrier (GHD, other brands are available ) to apply heat to the mat as i worked it into shape, and then i used a combination of a tennis ball and a roller to get into corners, this annoyed the missus no end, but it made the application of the matting pretty easy even for areas that looked hard to get around.

I have a couple of vibrations still remaining but they seem to be from random bits of interior trim (seat belt restrainers, door bin fittings etc) than the panels and the speaker mounting points themselves thump, rather than ring now.

My next problem is to get rid of the "turn on pop" ive ended up with despite earthing everything fastidiously and being careful with my soldering and cable routing...... hmmm.

R.

[griffin dai]

The Focal's are really nice mate, they gave off enough bass that I never bothered installing my subs! There's loads of fakes floating about though so you need to be careful, also lots of damaged ones.

I'll take a closer look at the Fatmat. I'll probably go for Silent Coat deadening again a mix of 2mm & 4mm stuff (the 4mm multilayer extra is very good for deadening large panels but not so good for complex curves or hard to reach bits) then maybe go for isolator 4 & 8 CCF for the doors and floor (and roof, got to do the roof!!!) just need to decide on a MLV for the floor to cover the lot and get it nice & quiet...not sure what to go for here but might use Tecsound SY50 as it seems reasonably priced.
http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/tecsound-acous...

To kill the vibrations I'll be sticking some Silent Coat Sound Absorber behind the door card and some dash parts. LOADS to be getting on with!! And I really need to decide on speakers within the next week or so!

Not sure what the turn on 'pop' you have, could be an earthing issue with the amp? I've just bought a load of Knukonceptz Kolosus 0 gauge cable and some 50mm² welding cable to do the big 3, I had some alt whine in the last car so hoping to avoid this next time! (really annoying!!) The Welding cable looks/feels great VFM but its not as flexible as the Knu cable.

[TonyRPH]

griffin dai said:

Thanks, yeah not too bothered about the ohms mate as I'm running then all active anyway so should be ok. I've got Focals fitted at the moment but one speakers dead so fancied trying something different

The power will halve into an 8 ohm load.

Most (all??) car amps deliver their rated power into a 4 ohm load - so if your amp is 150w per channel into 4 ohms, it will only deliver 75w (ish) per channel into 8 ohms.

That's why I raised the point about speaker impedance.

[BlueMR2]

Seems a shame to waste a dual mono on some rear 6*9's even if genesis do make nice ones.

I would have said get some HAT drivers, but at your budget i'm not sure if you could afford them, unless you could find a 2nd hand set.

Part of the speaker choice depends on the sound you like, Genesis are generally nice and smooth, good for listening for hours on end, I had some Morel USA speakers I purchased from Dave Mason a long time ago, they are also very smooth speakers, together with a Becker or similar headunit you may find it a bit laid back.

Focal are generally regarded as pretty sharp speakers.

I've never heard your headunit before, is it mellow or sharp in its tone.

A 4 channel and a dual mono would make a nice 3 way setup, tweeters, mids and maybe 8" in the doors if you could, that would perhaps improve your system without a sub, although a good 6.5" woofer could pound out some bass if done well, especially with a dual mono behind it.

Forget installing the 6*9's in the back for now. They will add very little to the experience, if you need to, use a small amp or the hu amp and fade them in a little when you have others in the car.

[BlueMR2]

M@verick said:

My next problem is to get rid of the "turn on pop" ive ended up with despite earthing everything fastidiously and being careful with my soldering and cable routing...... hmmm.

Search on talkaudio for Dale (Madmax)'s post on how to use a relay for the remote lead.

This will let you build a small box that will take the remote out from the Head unit and create a delayed turn on to stop the popping as well as having adequate power for turning on multiple devices.

I'd always try to power and earth the headunit in the same blocks you feed the amps from.

[BlueMR2]

This is the relay, although it is not delayed, you can probably add something too it to delay it slightly.

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/ipb/index.php/topic/178...

[M@verick]

BlueMR2 said:

Search on talkaudio for Dale (Madmax)'s post on how to use a relay for the remote lead.

This will let you build a small box that will take the remote out from the Head unit and create a delayed turn on to stop the popping as well as having adequate power for turning on multiple devices.

I'd always try to power and earth the headunit in the same blocks you feed the amps from.

cheers, appreciated ill take a look at that. I have two distribution blocks in the back - live (fused) is feeding the amps and a 1 farad capacitor (which im not entirely sure i need), earth is grounding the amps. The head unit is using a new earth i tapped under the dash - do you mean take both the power and the earth for the head unit back from the distribution blocks in the boot ?. I hadnt thought of doing this.

Will go and read the link cheers ! - suspect i am a little bit low end compared to some of the systems being discussed on here !.

Cheers,

R.

[BlueMR2]

WeirdNeville said:

BlueMR2 said:

Seems a shame to waste a dual mono on some rear 6*9's even if genesis do make nice ones.
<snip>
Forget installing the 6*9's in the back for now. They will add very little to the experience, if you need to, use a small amp or the hu amp and fade them in a little when you have others in the car.

Genesis 6x9's are just subs. No mid range, no tweeters, just subs specifically designed to work "free air" and make proper use of a parcel shelf location. They're a really nice solution to getting subtle bass into a saloon car without losing lots of boot space or going nuts trying to get a sub to "penetrate" into the cabin properly.
Running a pair of them off of a dual mono is a great solution for a stealthy install.

I'd rather have 8's up front , but whatever floats his boat.

Dual mono on tweeters, bridged 4ch on mids .

[griffin dai]

Thanks for the input here gents I appreciate it

I think if I do go for hifi drivers ill 99% get the Peerless Vifa NE range above, but the Seas U18 mids also look tempting.

Car audio drivers I'm considering either Audison Voce, Morel Ovation and also some Sinfoni S Series 3 ways (but they're ending soon)

[griffin dai]

I've gone for the Sinfoni 3 ways.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sinfoni-S-Series-3-way-a...

Taken a massive gamble on these as I couldn't find any info on them, Sinfoni are well regarded though so fingers crossed ive done good here!

Ill update this when they turn up

[BlueMR2]

griffin dai said:

I've gone for the Sinfoni 3 ways.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sinfoni-S-Series-3-way-a...

Taken a massive gamble on these as I couldn't find any info on them, Sinfoni are well regarded though so fingers crossed ive done good here!

Ill update this when they turn up

Your going to have to check what your head unit can do to work out how best to set up your system for 3 way action.

[griffin dai]

Yeah I know, things just got a little more complicated! I need to do more of this-

I'll probably just keep it 2 way plus subs for now and see how it sounds, there's a way of doing 3 way plus subs but its a bit more involved and I cant remember what was said now (I'll have to read though a few threads on DIYMA and TA again!) Someone must have had a crack at it by now.

At the moment the HU's internal amp's switched off as it was picking up some noise (plus the speaker outputs weren't used anyway) so maybe I can have it 2 way plus subs and use the front speaker outputs for say the tweeters or have it 3 way front and use the rear speaker outputs for the 6x9 subs. I think someone else mentioned adding a crossover and having the tweeters & mids close together? (cant remember what was said now)

Not really sure whats the best way to do this but its not a massive drama, I just wanted a decent 2 way front stage anyway so the smaller mids are a bonus

I know a lot of guys run a passive/active system but as its going to be controlled all from the head unit in Network mode I'm not sure if its even possible?

Anyway! Pretty chuffed with these, they look wicked in the pics but not a lot of info on them online