Servers... Dacs ?? Help !!
Discussion
Two years ago we sold our house, put the money in the bank, settled into rented and waited for somewhere nice to come up for sale.
Fast Forward.
One month ago we moved into our new house with a settee and our old telly which only receives static... something to do with digital switchover. For sounds I'm using itunes on a mac, my iphone and a Zeppelin (not air). I unpacked my airport express, downloaded the most recent firmware in the hope it might work a bit better than it used to but no, it's still unbelievably crap. It still drops out all the time, preferring Apple stealth mode where it refuses to be recognised, despite being reset and reset... AND RESET.
I've spent a great deal of time on the internet over the years, trying to troubleshoot the airport express (both of them, I bought another because the first one wouldn't work properly.
)
I'd prefer not to use the airport express again. Ever.
So then, in storage, along with everything else I own, I have Arcam amps, a pair of quad 11s, a lovely Naim CD player and a pair of substantial floorstanders... and some other stuff I might have forgotten about. I'm just wondering about the way forward.
I bought Hi-Fi World and Hi-Fi News (the first time in a long time) and both have reviews of servers but no explanation of how they fit into a Hi-Fi system.
Both Magazines have reviews of DACs but how are they used in a digital hi-fi setup these days ? Last time I used an offboard DAC it was as an upgrade to a CD player.
I love the idea of choosing music off the Macbook and playing it wirelessly through speakers, I love the idea of subscribing to Spotify and playing anything and everything wirelessly... but I'm not going to spend one more minute wrestling with the airport express.
Sonus comes up in conversations, is it excellent, how does it work ?
Do I need server, will I need a DAC ?
How are you guys playing your music these days ?
Regards, Mike.
Fast Forward.
One month ago we moved into our new house with a settee and our old telly which only receives static... something to do with digital switchover. For sounds I'm using itunes on a mac, my iphone and a Zeppelin (not air). I unpacked my airport express, downloaded the most recent firmware in the hope it might work a bit better than it used to but no, it's still unbelievably crap. It still drops out all the time, preferring Apple stealth mode where it refuses to be recognised, despite being reset and reset... AND RESET.
I've spent a great deal of time on the internet over the years, trying to troubleshoot the airport express (both of them, I bought another because the first one wouldn't work properly.
)I'd prefer not to use the airport express again. Ever.
So then, in storage, along with everything else I own, I have Arcam amps, a pair of quad 11s, a lovely Naim CD player and a pair of substantial floorstanders... and some other stuff I might have forgotten about. I'm just wondering about the way forward.
I bought Hi-Fi World and Hi-Fi News (the first time in a long time) and both have reviews of servers but no explanation of how they fit into a Hi-Fi system.
Both Magazines have reviews of DACs but how are they used in a digital hi-fi setup these days ? Last time I used an offboard DAC it was as an upgrade to a CD player.
I love the idea of choosing music off the Macbook and playing it wirelessly through speakers, I love the idea of subscribing to Spotify and playing anything and everything wirelessly... but I'm not going to spend one more minute wrestling with the airport express.
Sonus comes up in conversations, is it excellent, how does it work ?
Do I need server, will I need a DAC ?
How are you guys playing your music these days ?
Regards, Mike.
I have these http://www.avihifi.co.uk/adm9.html and an Apple TV. Works flawlessly.
Sonos is a good place to start, you basically 'point' a Sonos player at your iTunes directory and it will provide a means to play any music on your laptop through your Hi-Fi. Essentially a much, much better but ultimately similar process to using Airport express; your laptop is the server and Sonos the media player. Sonos links with both Spotify & Napster and includes Internet radio using the TuneIN service so it provides a one stop shop for all your streaming services.
The Sonos Connect has both analogue and digital outputs so you can improve performance by means of a seperate DAC if you wish. Start without and upgrade if you feel the urge to tinker with performance.
The only other option I would consider would be Linn DS. Much more expensive and arguably better performance, especially if you look at something like the Majik - around £2k so almost ten times the price. Better streaming integration and support for Airplay which is very useful but I don't think Spotify is supported yet.
Both the above can be controlled via free applications on PC, iPhone or iPad. If you set your volume on your amp to a set point you can employ the variable output so total control via mobile.
Take your pick.
The Sonos Connect has both analogue and digital outputs so you can improve performance by means of a seperate DAC if you wish. Start without and upgrade if you feel the urge to tinker with performance.
The only other option I would consider would be Linn DS. Much more expensive and arguably better performance, especially if you look at something like the Majik - around £2k so almost ten times the price. Better streaming integration and support for Airplay which is very useful but I don't think Spotify is supported yet.
Both the above can be controlled via free applications on PC, iPhone or iPad. If you set your volume on your amp to a set point you can employ the variable output so total control via mobile.
Take your pick.
Brilliant, thanks very much.
AVi rings a bell, a company making excellent componants before digital was a twinkle, I like the concept. A complete hi-fi in a pair of speakers and there looks to be lively debate and reviews on the net... Very interesting, I look forward to investigating further.
The Linn website is great, lots of information, thanks. As it turns out I have a customer who was having a system installed and that incorporated a Sneaky but it went a bit over my head at the time. I do like the idea of GB hi-fi... hence the Naim and I know Linn has a similar hard core following. I'll be interested to find out what that's all about.
The Sonos Connect looks like an excellent short term fix that might last longer than that. For sure, it looks like it will work well as a bridge between the Mac and my Zeppelin.... just add Napster and I've truely entered the digital age. 
I've only been hi-fi-less for a couple of years but things move on a pace... it was all starting to get a bit confusing.
Thanks, Mike.
AVi rings a bell, a company making excellent componants before digital was a twinkle, I like the concept. A complete hi-fi in a pair of speakers and there looks to be lively debate and reviews on the net... Very interesting, I look forward to investigating further.
The Linn website is great, lots of information, thanks. As it turns out I have a customer who was having a system installed and that incorporated a Sneaky but it went a bit over my head at the time. I do like the idea of GB hi-fi... hence the Naim and I know Linn has a similar hard core following. I'll be interested to find out what that's all about.
The Sonos Connect looks like an excellent short term fix that might last longer than that.
For sure, it looks like it will work well as a bridge between the Mac and my Zeppelin.... just add Napster and I've truely entered the digital age. I've only been hi-fi-less for a couple of years but things move on a pace... it was all starting to get a bit confusing.
Thanks, Mike.
Seriously consider and if possible borrow and listen to the current NaimNet and NaimAudio range.
I use the NaimNet Server for a couple of my installs and the sound, usage and support is second to none.
I will never forget the back to back demo of a £3k Record Deck and then the Naim 555 CD player with external PSU and DAC, both through the same amp and speakers playing the same track. Wow, that make you realise how poor CD's and equally Rips can be when compared to the depth of a record deck.
V.
I use the NaimNet Server for a couple of my installs and the sound, usage and support is second to none.
I will never forget the back to back demo of a £3k Record Deck and then the Naim 555 CD player with external PSU and DAC, both through the same amp and speakers playing the same track. Wow, that make you realise how poor CD's and equally Rips can be when compared to the depth of a record deck.
V.
Hello,
You can simply use a MacBook as an all in one source and use the USB to feed a DAC, mow connect this into your Arcam amp, and you have a server based system. Now you just need to rip your CD's and away you go. Now a quick tip here, don't bother with compression now. It really destroy's the music, and storage is so cheap these day's it's simply not worth it.
Sonos is a good system, their Bridge is a really great little piece of hardware, but don't discount Logitech Squeezebox either, but I'd say that both would absolutely require a DAC to satisfy you given that you've previously had a Naim CD player. Depending on what you have in terms of networking in your home, I would consider a QNAP or Synology NAS as your central storage, then use hard wired networking (not Wi-Fi, it's really not suitable) either via CAT V sockets or using Homeplugs, to your MacBook.
Would you rather use a Mac, or would you be happy with a Windows system for this? What else do you have and would you be willing to part with any items? Would this be for one room or eventually serve multiple rooms?
I am sure we can come up with something which can make you happy.
As to what I use, I have a dedicated touch screen computer with a separate server, the computer is built to be silent, it feeds via an M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 card a Perpetual Technologies upsampler / DAC combination which then feed my main Aesthetix / Bryston / Martin Logan system, with a Logitech Duo in the living room feeding a Shanling music center.
I hope this makes some sense to you, if I can be of any further help then please don't hesitate to ask.
Dave
loughran said:
One month ago we moved into our new house with a settee and our old telly which only receives static... something to do with digital switchover. For sounds I'm using itunes on a mac, my iphone and a Zeppelin (not air). I unpacked my airport express, downloaded the most recent firmware in the hope it might work a bit better than it used to but no, it's still unbelievably crap. It still drops out all the time, preferring Apple stealth mode where it refuses to be recognised, despite being reset and reset... AND RESET.
Yes, been there with Apple's 'User Friendly' menu's which don't actually give you access to anything useful. I've incresingly found that when a Mac doesn't work there is nothing else for it but to roll up your sleeves and dig around in Unix. Sadly a lot of their devices like Airport and their Wi-Fi access point's are hopeless. You're not alone with these Apple woes, and I work in IT and I've seen a lot of these issues.loughran said:
So then, in storage, along with everything else I own, I have Arcam amps, a pair of quad 11s, a lovely Naim CD player and a pair of substantial floorstanders... and some other stuff I might have forgotten about. I'm just wondering about the way forward.
Some very nice items there, out of interest which floorstanders do you have?loughran said:
I bought Hi-Fi World and Hi-Fi News (the first time in a long time) and both have reviews of servers but no explanation of how they fit into a Hi-Fi system.
OK, the servers come in two forms, either all in one items like the Meridian Sooloos where the storage, CD ripping, control and playback is all in one unit, or a two piece system where the storage is in another box (or indeed another room completely) and the playback device is in the listening room. Generally somewhere along you will have an analogue out to your amp, and a digital out, either S/PDIF or via USB to the DAC. Essentially try to think of the server as a 21st century CD player in terms of system architecture and you won't go far wrong.loughran said:
Both Magazines have reviews of DACs but how are they used in a digital hi-fi setup these days ? Last time I used an offboard DAC it was as an upgrade to a CD player.
Essentially they still do the same thing, but now many of them use USB inputs instead of TOSLink or S/PDIF so a computer can feed them. The better DAC's use asynchronous USB which allows the DAC to control the data flow rather than the PC, this gives far superior sound usually if it has been implemented well.loughran said:
I love the idea of choosing music off the Macbook and playing it wirelessly through speakers, I love the idea of subscribing to Spotify and playing anything and everything wirelessly... but I'm not going to spend one more minute wrestling with the airport express.
Sonus comes up in conversations, is it excellent, how does it work ?
Do I need server, will I need a DAC ?
How are you guys playing your music these days ?
I hear you with the Macbook. Personally I really don't like iTunes, but then again I think OS X is over rated as an OS and iTunes on Windows is a power hungry, temperamental beast, but we can certainly do much of this without ever touching airport again.Sonus comes up in conversations, is it excellent, how does it work ?
Do I need server, will I need a DAC ?
How are you guys playing your music these days ?
You can simply use a MacBook as an all in one source and use the USB to feed a DAC, mow connect this into your Arcam amp, and you have a server based system. Now you just need to rip your CD's and away you go. Now a quick tip here, don't bother with compression now. It really destroy's the music, and storage is so cheap these day's it's simply not worth it.
Sonos is a good system, their Bridge is a really great little piece of hardware, but don't discount Logitech Squeezebox either, but I'd say that both would absolutely require a DAC to satisfy you given that you've previously had a Naim CD player. Depending on what you have in terms of networking in your home, I would consider a QNAP or Synology NAS as your central storage, then use hard wired networking (not Wi-Fi, it's really not suitable) either via CAT V sockets or using Homeplugs, to your MacBook.
Would you rather use a Mac, or would you be happy with a Windows system for this? What else do you have and would you be willing to part with any items? Would this be for one room or eventually serve multiple rooms?
I am sure we can come up with something which can make you happy.
As to what I use, I have a dedicated touch screen computer with a separate server, the computer is built to be silent, it feeds via an M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 card a Perpetual Technologies upsampler / DAC combination which then feed my main Aesthetix / Bryston / Martin Logan system, with a Logitech Duo in the living room feeding a Shanling music center.
I hope this makes some sense to you, if I can be of any further help then please don't hesitate to ask.
Dave
These links might help
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/
I use my laptop to feed feed an active crossover via a Musical Fidelity USB to SPDIF converter; sounds better than my Wadia CD player imho. Here's a link to a review of one of the higher res dacs http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-a... . The performance appears very impressive but I think higher resolution mainstream material is still a pain to get hold of so, for the time being, I'm still only running 24/96.
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/
I use my laptop to feed feed an active crossover via a Musical Fidelity USB to SPDIF converter; sounds better than my Wadia CD player imho. Here's a link to a review of one of the higher res dacs http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-a... . The performance appears very impressive but I think higher resolution mainstream material is still a pain to get hold of so, for the time being, I'm still only running 24/96.
Dave, Crackie, thanks very much for taking the time.
Time is something I'm a bit short on at the moment, what with making the windows and patching the roof ready for winter but I've dipped into the suggestions and links in your posts... and then one link leads to another, and another and before you know it you're down the rabbit hole.
I can say now though, that I do have a grip on the basic architecture of a server based systems AND I'll still be able to use my trusty amps.
My substantial floor standers ? Well, they're World Audio Design HDL3 golds. The original design was published in Hi-fi world in 1996ish, a three way floorstander with the Audax gold HD3P piezo tweeter.
Took me a couple of years to make them, on and off. Wing sectioned, lined in lead, clad in zinc with ebonised burr oak front panels, inlayed with with stirling silver. Very sensitive and Ideal for the valve amps, they weigh 60 kilo each.
Well you did ask.
Thanks again, I can see I'm going to enjoy this new digital hi-fi malarkey.
Mike.
Time is something I'm a bit short on at the moment, what with making the windows and patching the roof ready for winter but I've dipped into the suggestions and links in your posts... and then one link leads to another, and another and before you know it you're down the rabbit hole.
I can say now though, that I do have a grip on the basic architecture of a server based systems AND I'll still be able to use my trusty amps.
My substantial floor standers ? Well, they're World Audio Design HDL3 golds. The original design was published in Hi-fi world in 1996ish, a three way floorstander with the Audax gold HD3P piezo tweeter.
Took me a couple of years to make them, on and off. Wing sectioned, lined in lead, clad in zinc with ebonised burr oak front panels, inlayed with with stirling silver. Very sensitive and Ideal for the valve amps, they weigh 60 kilo each.
Well you did ask.
Thanks again, I can see I'm going to enjoy this new digital hi-fi malarkey.
Mike.
Vex, the Naim Unity does look quite stupendous. I remember my Dad buying a National Panasonic music center in the seventies, cassette tape, turntable and radio in one box with a perspex lid.... revolutionary at the time.
The Naim Unity looks like a similar concept for the 21st centuary, is there nothing It won't do ?
The write ups are good, I'll give it a listen.
Thanks.
The Naim Unity looks like a similar concept for the 21st centuary, is there nothing It won't do ?
The write ups are good, I'll give it a listen.
Thanks.
Hello,
If you can stretch to it, the Wafer 2's are well worth the extra, but the Wafer 1's are excellent. The only other on wall speaker I would recommend are the Martin Logan Fresco's which are, to my ears, even better than the Wafer's, but they need a subwoofer with them, and they need quite a powerful amp to get them moving.
Regards,
Dave
VEX said:
I am seriously considering a uniti2 for my office / demo room that we are building this year.
Do I partner some little PMC Wafers or ArtCoustic's with it?
V.
No contest, the PMC Wafer's wipe the floor with the Artcoustics. In fact, the Wafers wipe the floor with pretty much every wall mount speakers I've heard, and I've heard Dali, Monitor Audio, Triad and B&W. The PMC's have well controlled bass with does not try to over extend itself and turn into a low frequency drone, has truly transparent midrange for clear vocals, and well defined high frequencies which offer clarity and transparency with goind hars or splashy. The speakers also image remarkably well with real image depth, something most on wall speakers are terrible at.Do I partner some little PMC Wafers or ArtCoustic's with it?
V.
If you can stretch to it, the Wafer 2's are well worth the extra, but the Wafer 1's are excellent. The only other on wall speaker I would recommend are the Martin Logan Fresco's which are, to my ears, even better than the Wafer's, but they need a subwoofer with them, and they need quite a powerful amp to get them moving.
Regards,
Dave
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