End of the ( transmission ) line :(

[Pontoneer]

Something for the interest of fellow hi-fi enthusiasts

After many years of enjoyment , and just as many years of disapproval from SWMBO , I have finally and reluctantly agreed to part with my wonderful IMF TLS80 transmission line loudspeakers .

Having been a hi-fi enthusiast since my schooldays , and my first paid employment being in a hi-fi shop , more years ago than I cared to remember ; after auditioning just about everything on the market these , along with the Quad Electrostatic became the two loudspeakers I aspired to own .

I finally got the IMF's some fifteen or so years back and was content to keep them forever ; unfortunately the sentiment was not shared by my nearest and dearest and we have had our fallings out over the years about them

Eventually , the agreement was that they would remain in a cupboard and I could have them out whenever she was away visiting her parents etc . However , much as I love listening to music on them , moving them back and forth for a day or two's enjoyment has just become such a faff that I can't be bothered anymore .

The upshot was that I stuck them on Gumtree a few weeks back , to comments that I would be lucky if anyone was daft enough to take them off me , never mind for the four figure asking price I had set . Within two hours of the ad going up I had three enquiries - two asking questions about the speakers and a third just stating that he wanted them , had been looking for a pair for ages to upgrade from his TLS50's , and would I keep them for four weeks if he sent a deposit . Well , the deal was done and the day cometh this weekend .

The good part was that I got special permission to have them out for my last few weeks of ownership , so I've had lots of musical evenings . The not so good part was trying to find something domestically acceptable but approaching them in listening pleasure . I already have another pair of smaller IMF's , Super Compacts , but the foam surrounds on the midrange units have deteriorated with age so I no longer use them , and lately have been using a home built pair of mini-monitors based on the BBC LS 3/5A design - fine for small scale stuff but no substitute for the TL's .

Over the last three weeks or so I've perused the websites of various dealers to see if anything new took my fancy , but short of some seriously expensive loudspeakers which would be equally disharmonious in our domestic environment ( so no ESL 2905's or the like ) I have also been watching the pages of Gumtree and eBay with interest , and considered the likes of Mission 753's and 754's , Quad 21L's , and Rogers BBC Export Monitors , all of which I saw advertised within reasonable travelling distance andat reasonable asking prices . However , just yesterday I spotted a pair of Tannoy 611's on Gumtree at a ridiculously low price and only 15 miles away , so a quick phone call was made and an hour later they were in the boot of my car .

I was already familiar with the well regarded Tannoy 'Sixes' range with the hexagonal profile cabinets , so designed as to break up internal standing waves , and the 611's being third from the top of the range with an 8" dual concentric drive unit partnered with an 8" bass only unit . I used to sell a lot of Tannoy hi-fi loudspeakers back in the day ; a friend still has a pair of the somewhat larger D700 model with 10" drivers , and I still use and install quite a lot of Tannoy Pro Audio kit , so was quite happy to take a gamble on these speakers .

On getting them home , the 611's , which many would regard as reasonable sized floorstanding loudspeakers , looked tiny beside the IMF's : this met with a certain party's approval ; they are actually quite attractive in appearance , although this was not my primary concern .

On connecting them up , I was pleasantly surprised : although not as open or 'airy' as the IMF's , the Tannoys were very smooth and coherent , giving a well balanced sound without any strong emphasis on any part of the spectrum and , thanks to the 611 being an infinite baffle design , there was no hint of boominess which tends to identify the lower models in the range most of which are ported reflex designs . Tannoys have always been known for being efficient and these are no exceptions : a volume setting of '10' on my Quad 77 preamplifier gives a sound level that would require '15' on the IMF's . Both loudspeakers can generate high levels ; higher than I would normally listen at , but given enough power the IMF's can still convey musical experiences on a much larger scale - especially something like a big band in full swing . The stereo imaging of the Tannoys , thanks to the dual concentric driver arrangement , is superb - although , despite having put them on spikes to stabilise them , they are still a bit too low for the HF units to be in the listening plane and really need stands to bring them up by something of the order of 200-300mm - maybe I will keep an eye out for a pair of the larger 615 models which stand that much taller anyway ....

Enough rambling , here are a few pictures before I get back to some listening .

Guess which is which ?







A closer shot - grilles on





and grilles off



The IMF driver arrangement



and the Tannoys ( still need to clean up the wood around the drivers on this one )



nice detail in the top of the Tannoy cabinets

[Mr_Yogi]

You could always keep a lookout for a pair of PMC's as I think they also employ the transmission line principal.

[Shilvers]

Still got my TDL RTL3s.

Can still hold there own today, although they have been banished from the living room to the man cave

[Riff Raff]

Mr_Yogi said:

You could always keep a lookout for a pair of PMC's as I think they also employ the transmission line principal.

I have a pair of PMC Fact8's. They are without doubt the best speakers I've ever had. And domestically acceptable to Mrs. Raff....

[Pontoneer]

Yes , I looked at TDL's and someone I know has a pair of PMC's ( twenty 23 or 24's , not sure which ) .

I am toying with the idea of using the drive units and crossovers out of the Tannoys and just building a set of TL enclosures ( I used to build speakers in years gone by and have experience in design and construction , so it wouldn't be difficult ) .

[telecat]

One of the things I always look for in a house is the room My HiFi goes in. Women come with their own baggage I come with HiFi. The Impulse Speakers I own are to be honest quite discreet however I do occasionally look at others.

[jamcam23]

God i miss my TSL-80's...best speakers I've ever owned. Worst thing is, I sold mine for £250 on Ebay about 6 years ago. Shocking. Replaced them with a pair of Audio Pro Blue Diamonds. Nearly as good, but not quite.

To this day, the best speakers I've ever heard where the TDL Reference speakers, unbelievable bass and midrange, powered by a Krell set up. Mind blowing.

http://digilander.iol.it/piani/cataloghi_tdl/gener...

[IforB]

Riff Raff said:

I have a pair of PMC Fact8's. They are without doubt the best speakers I've ever had. And domestically acceptable to Mrs. Raff....

They are stonking speakers.

I've got OB1i's and they are superb too, but the clarity of the fact's is something that has to be heard to be believed. As soon as they make a centre to match, then I'll seriously look into getting some.

They are also the only PMC speaker I know of that has a hope of passing the wife test as well. My OB's got through because my wife has simply given up, though her first words when I unpacked them was "oh dear, they're not pretty are they..." which I took as something less than a vote of confidence.
Fortunately they sound superb!

[anonymous-user]

Mr_Yogi said:

You could always keep a lookout for a pair of PMC's as I think they also employ the transmission line principal.

Oh dear! (Hint - principle)

[TonyRPH]

It truly saddens me to read about blokes having their hobbies / lives dictated by "SWMBO".

I guess this makes me very fortunate that my o/h is happy to put up with a lounge full of kit because she appreciates it's my hobby.

OP, I'll be surprised if you find anything modern* that matches the sound of those TLS80's, in particular the gut wrenching bass.

• at a reasonable price.

Pontoneer said:

Yes , I looked at TDL's and someone I know has a pair of PMC's ( twenty 23 or 24's , not sure which ) .

I am toying with the idea of using the drive units and crossovers out of the Tannoys and just building a set of TL enclosures ( I used to build speakers in years gone by and have experience in design and construction , so it wouldn't be difficult ) .

Most of the TDLs (despite being a successor to the IMF products) don't come close to the original IMFs.

Only the TDL Studio series are worth looking at IMHO, and they are pretty rare.

Edited by TonyRPH on Friday 30th August 08:24

[Shilvers]

TonyRPH said:

It truly saddens me to read about blokes having their hobbies / lives dictated by "SWMBO".

I guess this makes me very fortunate that my o/h is happy to put up with a lounge full of kit because she appreciates it's my hobby.

OP, I'll be surprised if you find anything modern* that matches the sound of those TLS80's, in particular the gut wrenching bass.

• at a reasonable price.

Lol, to be fair, they were far too big for the room, plus they couldn't even go across the same wall. I did earn some man points back though by going out and buying a new surround set up with a 'discreet' bk subwoofer.

Shame I can't get to enjoy the TDLs as much as I'd like but hey ho.

[Pontoneer]

TonyRPH said:

Most of the TDLs (despite being a successor to the IMF products) don't come close to the original IMFs.

Only the TDL Studio series are worth looking at IMHO, and they are pretty rare.

Edited by TonyRPH on Friday 30th August 08:24

Agree with most of that .

However , I don't see 'gut wrenching bass' as the sign of a good TL ; it is more good CLEAN bass without colouration that sets good ones apart from poor ones , also the TLS80's in particular need to be driven by good amplification with a good damping factor to keep them under control . With the right amplifier the bass is tight and unobtrusive , with the rest of the range open and clear - sure they can produce a lot of well extended bass if the programme material calls for it , but in normal playing they don't sound overtly 'bassy' . It may seem odd to some , but the closest thing I've heard to the TLS80's is the Quad ESL63 which , alas , there is no point in even showing to SWMBO because I know what the answer would be .

When I had an AV system I ran the TLS80's as front speakers in a 5.0 system , along with a centre speaker I made up with the same Coles/Celestion HF units and four B110's , and a pair of Super Compacts for the rear . Amplification was the Sony TA-E1000ESD AV preamp , the SDP EP9ES Dolby Ac-3 decoder , and four of the TA-N55ES power amps , running three as monoblocks for the front channels and one in stereo for the rear .

However , I grew tired of the roomful of AV kit and have gone back to stereo , returning to Quad electronics , which was what I always had before getting into AV in the mid 80's ; I now run a 77/707 pre/power combination , mostly playing vinyl from my trusty Gyrodec/QC/RB700/ATOC9 which matches nicely into the 77 pre's MC input . Although I don't play a lot of cd's , I held onto my Sony DVP-S7700 DVD player since it is actually a very good CD player in its own right , and still doubles for playing DVD's through the TV when required , which isn't all that often .

Yes , I'm aware of a lot of the more recent TL designs and variants , including the TDL successors - the big reference ones I heard once at a hi-FI show and was most impressed , the studio range are good , but I'm not a fan of the RTL range which seem to be the most common ones .

I bought the little Tannoys just now mainly because they were very cheap ( picked them up for £120 which seems to be the going rate and I feel undervalues them somewhat ) and I remembered them as being quite decent from the day . I can live with them for a while until I decide what to do .

I do like the pinpoint stereo imaging that was always a feature of Tannoy dual concentrics , and I may very well have a go at knocking up a pair of TL cabinets to see how they perform - I can always put them back into the Tannoy IB boxes if it doesn't work out .

Edited by Pontoneer on Friday 30th August 11:20

[TonyRPH]

Pontoneer said:

Agree with most of that .

However , I don't see 'gut wrenching bass' as the sign of a good TL ; it is more good CLEAN bass without colouration that sets good ones apart from poor ones , also the TLS80's in particular need to be driven by good amplification with a good damping factor to keep them under control .<snip>

I couldn't think of anything better than 'gut wrenching bass', as I remember them going down really deep, but at the same time subtle.

You put it better than I did.

ETA: With regard to TDL Studio speakers...

I meant the older Studio models like this..



And *not* this:

Edited by TonyRPH on Friday 30th August 13:20

[outnumbered]

If you like really clean bass, there's not all that many sealed box speakers around these days, but the ATC "Entry level" range are all sealed. I've got a pair of SCM40s, which I really like, and have decent WAF. They're about £2800 new, but come up for under half that, used, which is a massive bargain.

PMC Twenty xx are the other obvious idea, as they are transmission lines of some sort as you're used to, and very slim so should easily get past the Mrs.

[Pontoneer]

TonyRPH said:

I couldn't think of anything better than 'gut wrenching bass', as I remember them going down really deep, but at the same time subtle.

You put it better than I did.

ETA: With regard to TDL Studio speakers...

I meant the older Studio models like this..



And *not* this:

Edited by TonyRPH on Friday 30th August 13:20

Yes , I knew which Studio models you meant - Studio 0.5 etc and not the cheap and nasty newer ones.

I think we're talking on the same wavelengths .

[Pontoneer]

outnumbered said:

If you like really clean bass, there's not all that many sealed box speakers around these days, but the ATC "Entry level" range are all sealed. I've got a pair of SCM40s, which I really like, and have decent WAF. They're about £2800 new, but come up for under half that, used, which is a massive bargain.

PMC Twenty xx are the other obvious idea, as they are transmission lines of some sort as you're used to, and very slim so should easily get past the Mrs.

Thanks .

Yes , Ineed to audition a lot of the newer stuff I'm less familiar with .

Although I used to work in the trade back in the 70's and kept my interest through the 80's , once I got a home system I was happy with and felt no need to continually upgrade , I stopped buying hi-FI magazines ( save for the very odd copy of HFN/RR , and then as much for the musical content ) and going into shops , and just got on with listening to music .

Although proper hi-FI shops are thinner on the ground these days , I will visit a few of the decent ones and see what's out there .

Although I don't expect smaller speakers to produce the same 'big' sound that my TLS80's do , or the even bigger home designed and built ones I had before them , ( Scotty was right - you canna change the laws of physics ) I might still find something I can live with .

I am going to look at building something along the lines of the height and depth of the TLS80's , but with a frontal area just wide enough to accommodate the Tannoy 8" dual concentric unit - I still need to work out some of the fine details but the potential is there to make something that might just work quite well .

[RedLeicester]

PMC have been doing ATL for years, and they're bloody brilliant. I have them both in the studio and at home in the lounge and kitchen. Wouldn't settle for anything less, very nicely balanced boxes.

[Pupp]

PMC FB1s here - not negotiable with a no-tail!