What projector circa £1k? Epson EH-TW6100?
Discussion
Hi.
I apologise if this is one of those things that comes up all the time...
Moving house in the next month or so and will finally be able to get a 'home cinema' setup.
Part of my plan is to get a projector, so I'm after any advice or recommendations. My current short-list is the Epson EH-TW6100 (non-wireless) but are there any other models I should consider? For what it's worth I don't seem to suffer from the DLP 'rainbow' effect, at least I've never noticed on my mates 10-year old DLP-based projector. I'm hoping I can audition it, perhaps at Richer sounds. I don't suppose anyone has a picture or video of what the projected image from one of these looks like do they?
The PJ will be used for films only (well, maybe the odd episode of 'Game of Thrones') in a blacked-out room, probably a few times a month. There's a TV for other stuff.
The only potential issue I see is that the Epson doesn't have a lens shift on it, so with the projector on the ceiling I assume I'll have to point it down and use keystone correction to get the image low enough for it to be comfortable?
Any advice on screens will be appreciated too, I'd like quite a large top mask I think. I know what you're going to ask, I can't remember how the room is decorated, but it's not too bright.
For anyone that cares, the rest of the set up is:
Sony STRDN-820 amp (to be upgraded to one with twin HDMI outs, probably a Sony 1040)
Mission 75 speakers (752 main, 751 rears, 75c centre)
Yamaha YST-FSW-150 sub (to be upgraded, probably to a REL T5 or similar)
Toshiba Blu-Ray player (to be upgraded to a Samsung smart one)
Thanks.
I apologise if this is one of those things that comes up all the time...
Moving house in the next month or so and will finally be able to get a 'home cinema' setup.
Part of my plan is to get a projector, so I'm after any advice or recommendations. My current short-list is the Epson EH-TW6100 (non-wireless) but are there any other models I should consider? For what it's worth I don't seem to suffer from the DLP 'rainbow' effect, at least I've never noticed on my mates 10-year old DLP-based projector. I'm hoping I can audition it, perhaps at Richer sounds. I don't suppose anyone has a picture or video of what the projected image from one of these looks like do they?
The PJ will be used for films only (well, maybe the odd episode of 'Game of Thrones') in a blacked-out room, probably a few times a month. There's a TV for other stuff.
The only potential issue I see is that the Epson doesn't have a lens shift on it, so with the projector on the ceiling I assume I'll have to point it down and use keystone correction to get the image low enough for it to be comfortable?
Any advice on screens will be appreciated too, I'd like quite a large top mask I think. I know what you're going to ask, I can't remember how the room is decorated, but it's not too bright.
For anyone that cares, the rest of the set up is:
Sony STRDN-820 amp (to be upgraded to one with twin HDMI outs, probably a Sony 1040)
Mission 75 speakers (752 main, 751 rears, 75c centre)
Yamaha YST-FSW-150 sub (to be upgraded, probably to a REL T5 or similar)
Toshiba Blu-Ray player (to be upgraded to a Samsung smart one)
Thanks.
I have an EH-TW480 for my setup. Had it over a year now.
It's a lot smaller and cheaper than the home cinema types.
It's a lot brighter even on the eco setting with much longer lasting bulbs.
Blacks not quite as black as with home cinema types but not bad.
Bit noisier than the home cinema ones so could benefit from a simple enclosure.
We are used to it. Works fine upside down on the ceiling in my house.
We use it for TV, films, iplayer, etc anything involving viewing on the sofa, we don't have a telly.
I drive it with component SD video from an old panasonic freeview box and HD720p HDMI from a media PC.
Like anything if you give it decent source material like HD IPlayer feeds or 720p film feeds it's a very nice display. If you feed it 240p YT camcorder footage then your better off viewing it on your phone!
We project onto an e-bay pull down screen perhaps cost £100 some year ago. It's fine.
I've had some of the epson home cinema range before and they are good in a fully blacked out room.
But we used it a lot so the lack of brightness, bulbs going and fading over time annoyed me.
It's a lot smaller and cheaper than the home cinema types.
It's a lot brighter even on the eco setting with much longer lasting bulbs.
Blacks not quite as black as with home cinema types but not bad.
Bit noisier than the home cinema ones so could benefit from a simple enclosure.
We are used to it. Works fine upside down on the ceiling in my house.
We use it for TV, films, iplayer, etc anything involving viewing on the sofa, we don't have a telly.
I drive it with component SD video from an old panasonic freeview box and HD720p HDMI from a media PC.
Like anything if you give it decent source material like HD IPlayer feeds or 720p film feeds it's a very nice display. If you feed it 240p YT camcorder footage then your better off viewing it on your phone!
We project onto an e-bay pull down screen perhaps cost £100 some year ago. It's fine.
I've had some of the epson home cinema range before and they are good in a fully blacked out room.
But we used it a lot so the lack of brightness, bulbs going and fading over time annoyed me.
Edited by peterperkins on Thursday 26th December 17:47
varsas said:
The 6100 is black (not white) I think and lacks the wireless HDMI, which means it's £2-300 cheaper.
Cheers, checked out the specs. looks like it's the wireless thing.Presumably you need some kind of wireless sender/receiver on the other end to attach to your other components if you went down the wireless route.
B17NNS said:
varsas said:
The 6100 is black (not white) I think and lacks the wireless HDMI, which means it's £2-300 cheaper.
Cheers, checked out the specs. looks like it's the wireless thing.Presumably you need some kind of wireless sender/receiver on the other end to attach to your other components if you went down the wireless route.
peterperkins said:
I have an EH-TW480 for my setup. Had it over a year now.
It's a lot smaller and cheaper than the home cinema types.
It's a lot brighter even on the eco setting with much longer lasting bulbs.
Blacks not quite as black as with home cinema types but not bad.
Bit noisier than the home cinema ones so could benefit from a simple enclosure.
We are used to it. Works fine upside down on the ceiling in my house.
We use it for TV, films, iplayer, etc anything involving viewing on the sofa, we don't have a telly.
I drive it with component SD video from an old panasonic freeview box and HD720p HDMI from a media PC.
Like anything if you give it decent source material like HD IPlayer feeds or 720p film feeds it's a very nice display. If you feed it 240p YT camcorder footage then your better off viewing it on your phone!
We project onto an e-bay pull down screen perhaps cost £100 some year ago. It's fine.
I've had some of the epson home cinema range before and they are good in a fully blacked out room.
But we used it a lot so the lack of brightness, bulbs going and fading over time annoyed me.
Thanks, the 480 is very bright isn't it? 2,800 lumins vs 2,300 for the 6100. How do they do that and maintain better bulb life? Must be a different LCD panel? It's a lot smaller and cheaper than the home cinema types.
It's a lot brighter even on the eco setting with much longer lasting bulbs.
Blacks not quite as black as with home cinema types but not bad.
Bit noisier than the home cinema ones so could benefit from a simple enclosure.
We are used to it. Works fine upside down on the ceiling in my house.
We use it for TV, films, iplayer, etc anything involving viewing on the sofa, we don't have a telly.
I drive it with component SD video from an old panasonic freeview box and HD720p HDMI from a media PC.
Like anything if you give it decent source material like HD IPlayer feeds or 720p film feeds it's a very nice display. If you feed it 240p YT camcorder footage then your better off viewing it on your phone!
We project onto an e-bay pull down screen perhaps cost £100 some year ago. It's fine.
I've had some of the epson home cinema range before and they are good in a fully blacked out room.
But we used it a lot so the lack of brightness, bulbs going and fading over time annoyed me.
Edited by peterperkins on Thursday 26th December 17:47
Hopefully my occasional use and that it'll be in a blacked out room will remove the issues you had.
The 480 may very well be quoting the lumens output at something other than 6500K (which is the target greyscale to aim for when calibrating). It's easier to get a higher lumens output if you set the whitebalance to say 7500K or higher (makes the image look bluer as well). If you like to view an accurate image then you might find they both give a similar lumens at 6500K anyway.
However, best not to get too drawn into claimed lumens output as most manufactureres find a way to give higher readings than reality. I measure my lux reading at the screen and worked back what the lumen output is when I'm getting 14fL (typically recommended reflectance level for a projector) and my projector is at approx 400 lumens in this case (JVC so I can adjust the aperture to fine tune light output).
There is more to a good picture than lumens: The 480 is more a business type of projector so will probably be a less accurate image to start with, may not have the required controls to properly calibrate with and will likely have poorer motion performance being designed to display more static images such as spreadsheets/power point.
However, best not to get too drawn into claimed lumens output as most manufactureres find a way to give higher readings than reality. I measure my lux reading at the screen and worked back what the lumen output is when I'm getting 14fL (typically recommended reflectance level for a projector) and my projector is at approx 400 lumens in this case (JVC so I can adjust the aperture to fine tune light output).
There is more to a good picture than lumens: The 480 is more a business type of projector so will probably be a less accurate image to start with, may not have the required controls to properly calibrate with and will likely have poorer motion performance being designed to display more static images such as spreadsheets/power point.
OldSkoolRS said:
The 480 may very well be quoting the lumens output at something other than 6500K (which is the target greyscale to aim for when calibrating). It's easier to get a higher lumens output if you set the whitebalance to say 7500K or higher (makes the image look bluer as well). If you like to view an accurate image then you might find they both give a similar lumens at 6500K anyway.
However, best not to get too drawn into claimed lumens output as most manufactureres find a way to give higher readings than reality. I measure my lux reading at the screen and worked back what the lumen output is when I'm getting 14fL (typically recommended reflectance level for a projector) and my projector is at approx 400 lumens in this case (JVC so I can adjust the aperture to fine tune light output).
There is more to a good picture than lumens: The 480 is more a business type of projector so will probably be a less accurate image to start with, may not have the required controls to properly calibrate with and will likely have poorer motion performance being designed to display more static images such as spreadsheets/power point.
Thanks for that, sounds like the best thing to do is just audition it.However, best not to get too drawn into claimed lumens output as most manufactureres find a way to give higher readings than reality. I measure my lux reading at the screen and worked back what the lumen output is when I'm getting 14fL (typically recommended reflectance level for a projector) and my projector is at approx 400 lumens in this case (JVC so I can adjust the aperture to fine tune light output).
There is more to a good picture than lumens: The 480 is more a business type of projector so will probably be a less accurate image to start with, may not have the required controls to properly calibrate with and will likely have poorer motion performance being designed to display more static images such as spreadsheets/power point.
Hi I just got myself an Optoma HD30 (3D-DLP) from Roy Jowetts AV. Paid the extra to get it calibrated and it's awesome - love it to bits!
Much better blacks than the Epson LCD I auditioned and have previously owned too and much smaller.
They do auditions too if you book in with them...
Calibrated Version: http://www.royjowetthomecinema.co.uk/optoma-hd30-v...
Non-Calibrated: http://www.royjowetthomecinema.co.uk/optoma-hd30-d...
Much better blacks than the Epson LCD I auditioned and have previously owned too and much smaller.
They do auditions too if you book in with them...
Calibrated Version: http://www.royjowetthomecinema.co.uk/optoma-hd30-v...
Non-Calibrated: http://www.royjowetthomecinema.co.uk/optoma-hd30-d...
I would seriously suggest that the calibrated version is a waste of money on two counts:
1. They have to measure directly from the projector so it doesn't take your room, screen or equipment into account, so the calibration doesn't mean it's accurate once in your room.
2. The lamp will change the most in the first 100 hours which is why most professionals only calibrate once 100 hours are reached.
Actually there's a third reason as well; you could probably get a pro round to calibrate after 100 hours for similar money so you'd get a proper job done rather than something that will be out due to the above.
1. They have to measure directly from the projector so it doesn't take your room, screen or equipment into account, so the calibration doesn't mean it's accurate once in your room.
2. The lamp will change the most in the first 100 hours which is why most professionals only calibrate once 100 hours are reached.
Actually there's a third reason as well; you could probably get a pro round to calibrate after 100 hours for similar money so you'd get a proper job done rather than something that will be out due to the above.
RJD223 said:
Hi I just got myself an Optoma HD30 (3D-DLP) from Roy Jowetts AV. Paid the extra to get it calibrated and it's awesome - love it to bits!
Much better blacks than the Epson LCD I auditioned and have previously owned too and much smaller.
They do auditions too if you book in with them...
Calibrated Version: http://www.royjowetthomecinema.co.uk/optoma-hd30-v...
Non-Calibrated: http://www.royjowetthomecinema.co.uk/optoma-hd30-d...
I don't suppose you know which epson it was do you? Maybe it was the 5910? On paper the 6100 has double the contrast ratio so I'm hoping for better blacks, however I understand that is one draw back of the 3LCD system (the same issue you get with LCD TV's I assume).Much better blacks than the Epson LCD I auditioned and have previously owned too and much smaller.
They do auditions too if you book in with them...
Calibrated Version: http://www.royjowetthomecinema.co.uk/optoma-hd30-v...
Non-Calibrated: http://www.royjowetthomecinema.co.uk/optoma-hd30-d...
Just goes to show, doesn't it. On paper the Optima has lower brightness and less contrast then the Epson but that doesn't translate into a better picture, for everyone at least.
It's never good to go by what's on paper. As an example; if you took the figures for a Panasonic projector and compared it to a JVC then you'd think the blacks would be way better on the Panasonic. However, in practice they are grey compared to the JVC because the JVC figure is more truthful and also 'native' contrast rather than fudged with a dynamic iris.
Best to get down to Roy Jowetts and see for yourself, just take into account how similar (or not) his demo room decor is to your own viewing room.
Best to get down to Roy Jowetts and see for yourself, just take into account how similar (or not) his demo room decor is to your own viewing room.
OldSkoolRS said:
I would seriously suggest that the calibrated version is a waste of money on two counts:
1. They have to measure directly from the projector so it doesn't take your room, screen or equipment into account, so the calibration doesn't mean it's accurate once in your room.
2. The lamp will change the most in the first 100 hours which is why most professionals only calibrate once 100 hours are reached.
Actually there's a third reason as well; you could probably get a pro round to calibrate after 100 hours for similar money so you'd get a proper job done rather than something that will be out due to the above.
1) RJ had the measurements of my setup provided to them before they did the calibration. Same screen and same distance away.1. They have to measure directly from the projector so it doesn't take your room, screen or equipment into account, so the calibration doesn't mean it's accurate once in your room.
2. The lamp will change the most in the first 100 hours which is why most professionals only calibrate once 100 hours are reached.
Actually there's a third reason as well; you could probably get a pro round to calibrate after 100 hours for similar money so you'd get a proper job done rather than something that will be out due to the above.
2) They ran the new Pj for 40-50hrs before calibrating it.
3) They also do a home calibration service, if you should so wish, which can be done after you've run the hours up yourself...
4) Taking the calibration option (I think it's an extra £100 or so) gets you the 5 year warranty too - so it's worth it IMHO for that on it's own...
Nothing like a bit of car forum negativity!
varsas said:
I don't suppose you know which epson it was do you? Maybe it was the 5910? On paper the 6100 has double the contrast ratio so I'm hoping for better blacks, however I understand that is one draw back of the 3LCD system (the same issue you get with LCD TV's I assume).
Just goes to show, doesn't it. On paper the Optima has lower brightness and less contrast then the Epson but that doesn't translate into a better picture, for everyone at least.
Sorry I can't be too sure on the exact model number but if you look on RJ's website it'll be the one for around the same price range (£1k-1.1k isn), it was a big unit and the colour was black.Just goes to show, doesn't it. On paper the Optima has lower brightness and less contrast then the Epson but that doesn't translate into a better picture, for everyone at least.
The Optoma in comparison is tiny, white, and more wife friendly. My only gripe, if it really is one (as my old one was worse), is the fan noise when you're sat right underneath it as I am with my setup. I would guess ear to unit level (in my seating position) is around 1m ish. But once the movie sound kicks in it's inaudible.
If you're around the Manchester/Oldham area and want a demo just PM me and I'll see what I can do!
RJD223 said:
1) RJ had the measurements of my setup provided to them before they did the calibration. Same screen and same distance away.
2) They ran the new Pj for 40-50hrs before calibrating it.
3) They also do a home calibration service, if you should so wish, which can be done after you've run the hours up yourself...
4) Taking the calibration option (I think it's an extra £100 or so) gets you the 5 year warranty too - so it's worth it IMHO for that on it's own...
Nothing like a bit of car forum negativity!
Sorry if you feel I'm being overly negative, but having spent the last 4-5 years learning how to calibrate and now spent considerable amount on the equipment to do so I feel I'm reasonably placed to comment. Having made changes to my room and observed how this can effect the readings off screen, I would always recommend taking readings and making adjustments based on an off screen in room reading as screen size and throw distance alone is not sufficient for an accurate result.2) They ran the new Pj for 40-50hrs before calibrating it.
3) They also do a home calibration service, if you should so wish, which can be done after you've run the hours up yourself...
4) Taking the calibration option (I think it's an extra £100 or so) gets you the 5 year warranty too - so it's worth it IMHO for that on it's own...
Nothing like a bit of car forum negativity!
I understand that the five year warranty side is probably worth it alone, but I still disagree that 'providing set up information' is as good as measuring off the screen. In this case I would definitely suggest that it would be best to take the at home calibration option. I'd also suggest that waiting until about 100 hours on the lamp would probably given the longest lasting calibration result too, though to be fair all projectors drift over time anyway, hence why I bought my own gear in the end, though I appreciate that spending over half the cost of this Epson might not be justifiable.
PS. The links above show nearly £200 difference in the two options.
OldSkoolRS said:
Sorry if you feel I'm being overly negative, but having spent the last 4-5 years learning how to calibrate and now spent considerable amount on the equipment to do so I feel I'm reasonably placed to comment. Having made changes to my room and observed how this can effect the readings off screen, I would always recommend taking readings and making adjustments based on an off screen in room reading as screen size and throw distance alone is not sufficient for an accurate result.
I understand that the five year warranty side is probably worth it alone, but I still disagree that 'providing set up information' is as good as measuring off the screen. In this case I would definitely suggest that it would be best to take the at home calibration option. I'd also suggest that waiting until about 100 hours on the lamp would probably given the longest lasting calibration result too, though to be fair all projectors drift over time anyway, hence why I bought my own gear in the end, though I appreciate that spending over half the cost of this Epson might not be justifiable.
PS. The links above show nearly £200 difference in the two options.
No worries - technical issues aside - I love it anyhow! For the right side of £1300 it's hard to beat... I understand that the five year warranty side is probably worth it alone, but I still disagree that 'providing set up information' is as good as measuring off the screen. In this case I would definitely suggest that it would be best to take the at home calibration option. I'd also suggest that waiting until about 100 hours on the lamp would probably given the longest lasting calibration result too, though to be fair all projectors drift over time anyway, hence why I bought my own gear in the end, though I appreciate that spending over half the cost of this Epson might not be justifiable.
PS. The links above show nearly £200 difference in the two options.
It was another £150ish can't remember exactly to have the calibration done at home but I decided to have it done at the shop as I didn't want a stranger in my home for 8 hours and I could recreate the dark room effect in the shop until after it got dark at home due to windows/etc.
RJD223 said:
varsas said:
I don't suppose you know which epson it was do you? Maybe it was the 5910? On paper the 6100 has double the contrast ratio so I'm hoping for better blacks, however I understand that is one draw back of the 3LCD system (the same issue you get with LCD TV's I assume).
Just goes to show, doesn't it. On paper the Optima has lower brightness and less contrast then the Epson but that doesn't translate into a better picture, for everyone at least.
Sorry I can't be too sure on the exact model number but if you look on RJ's website it'll be the one for around the same price range (£1k-1.1k isn), it was a big unit and the colour was black.Just goes to show, doesn't it. On paper the Optima has lower brightness and less contrast then the Epson but that doesn't translate into a better picture, for everyone at least.
The Optoma in comparison is tiny, white, and more wife friendly. My only gripe, if it really is one (as my old one was worse), is the fan noise when you're sat right underneath it as I am with my setup. I would guess ear to unit level (in my seating position) is around 1m ish. But once the movie sound kicks in it's inaudible.
If you're around the Manchester/Oldham area and want a demo just PM me and I'll see what I can do!
Sorry, I'm a long way from Manchester but thanks for the offer.
I'll try and make sure I demo the Optoma HD30.
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