5.1 Speaker Positioning

[anonymous-user]

I'm using ceiling speakers in the house I am currently building for the 5.1 cinema system in the living room. There are multiple reasons for using ceiling rather than any other type so please don't post about the merits of going down another route

Question I have is this; are there any specific rules as to the distance between the front speakers or the distance of the rears speakers in relation to the seating position?

Room is approximately 5m square with 2.9m high ceilings if that makes any difference.

Thanks.

[Driller]

Gary I have my in ceilings level with the rear of the sofa if that helps and about 3m50 apart. Ceiling height similar to yours.

It works pretty well although I think due to the ceiling height you lose a bit of the sense of sounds being behind and to the side and they seem to come a bit from (which makes sense). I like you had to have in ceilings for the rears but it's a very good compromise.

Did you go for Monitor Audio?

Maybe pull a couple of cables for 6.1 for later on?

[anonymous-user]

Driller said:

Gary I have my in ceilings level with the rear of the sofa if that helps and about 3m50 apart. Ceiling height similar to yours.

It works pretty well although I think due to the ceiling height you lose a bit of the sense of sounds being behind and to the side and they seem to come a bit from (which makes sense). I like you had to have in ceilings for the rears but it's a very good compromise.

Did you go for Monitor Audio?

Maybe pull a couple of cables for 6.1 for later on?

Thanks for that - I've had a ceiling layout before but this is the first time I've had to spec it!!

Yes, going MA CT265IDC at front and CT265FX for the rears.

I was going to pull more cable but, to be honest, I know I'll never want to go more than 5.1 so have not bothered. (He says running to site with a reel of pink cable )

[Driller]

Ha good one, I have the older C265FXs and they're great. Almost went for the 300 series but the 265s are certainly beefy enough. The grills on the CTs are very neat compared to the Cs.

Know what you mean about the sticking to 5.1, I have the cable pulled but haven't bothered either. It's just reassuring to know that you can

I know you don't want to talk about it (sorry!) but is there no way at all you can have some wall mounted or in-walls for the LCRs? Much more critical than the surrounds although I'm sure it'll be fine if you can't.

ETA Oh yes, forgot to add, this part of the room is at one end of a rectangular room and from the TV to rear wall it measures 4.5m so similar to your 5m square and we sit about a metre from the rear wall.

Edited by Driller on Wednesday 22 January 17:24

Edited by Driller on Wednesday 22 January 17:25

[Mr Pointy]

Have a look at these two pdfs from Genelec:

http://www.genelec.com/documents/qsg/genelec_angle...

http://www.genelec.com/documents/qsg/QS8040a_8050a...

[anonymous-user]

Driller said:

Ha good one, I have the older C265FXs and they're great. Almost went for the 300 series but the 265s are certainly beefy enough. The grills on the CTs are very neat compared to the Cs.

Know what you mean about the sticking to 5.1, I have the cable pulled but haven't bothered either. It's just reassuring to know that you can

I know you don't want to talk about it (sorry!) but is there no way at all you can have some wall mounted or in-walls for the LCRs? Much more critical than the surrounds although I'm sure it'll be fine if you can't.

ETA Oh yes, forgot to add, this part of the room is at one end of a rectangular room and from the TV to rear wall it measures 4.5m so similar to your 5m square and we sit about a metre from the rear wall.

Edited by Driller on Wednesday 22 January 17:24

Edited by Driller on Wednesday 22 January 17:25

I'll be about 4m from the screen as, like you, i'll be about 1m in from the rear.

The reason I cannot have wall mounted is there is no wall We have a free standing wall about 2.6m wide which contains a fireplace and will house TV with screen dropping in front. One the screen is down it will be over the entire wall and therefore covering any speakers. I know you can get screens to allow sound through but it starts getting complicated. The wall it also clad with a stone/slate which I really would hate to ruin with anything.

A bit like this but with another room on the other side if you get my drift.

[anonymous-user]

Mr Pointy said:

Have a look at these two pdfs from Genelec:

http://www.genelec.com/documents/qsg/genelec_angle...

http://www.genelec.com/documents/qsg/QS8040a_8050a...

Thank you - that's really helpful!

[VEX]

Mr Pointy said:

Have a look at these two pdfs from Genelec:

http://www.genelec.com/documents/qsg/genelec_angle...

http://www.genelec.com/documents/qsg/QS8040a_8050a...

That is also the 'ideal', so it is striking a balance between the ideal and the practical. I have a £40k room to do this year and even that is going to be a series of (nice to have) compromise.

V

[Driller]

garyhun said:

I'll be about 4m from the screen as, like you, i'll be about 1m in from the rear.

The reason I cannot have wall mounted is there is no wall We have a free standing wall about 2.6m wide which contains a fireplace and will house TV with screen dropping in front. One the screen is down it will be over the entire wall and therefore covering any speakers. I know you can get screens to allow sound through but it starts getting complicated. The wall it also clad with a stone/slate which I really would hate to ruin with anything.

A bit like this but with another room on the other side if you get my drift.

Well that's gong to be lovely then!

You may have thought of this but what about having three discreet (compact) LCRs on the floor at the bottom of the wall or even a sound bar slightly angled up to the listening position? Still a compromise but the sound will be closer to the action on the screen than coming from speakers in your (really high!) ceiling.

Edited by Driller on Wednesday 22 January 19:25

[talkssense]

http://www.ceiling-speakers.co.uk/motorised-drop-s...

[anonymous-user]

Driller, now leave the speaker situation alone and listen to me; I will say this only once: the speakers are going in the celing

[Driller]

Dammit, I like a challenge

[Power Junkie]

The speakers will be fine in the ceiling, What amp are you going to drive it with? Anthem AV MRX510 with its ARC setup works very well indeed. I have the MRX500 driving mine and its not too bad at all. My new room will be getting in wall LCR tho.

Edited by Power Junkie on Thursday 23 January 14:45

[anonymous-user]

Power Junkie said:

The speakers will be fine in the ceiling, What amp are you going to drive it with? Anthem AV MRX510 with its ARC setup works very well indeed. I have the MRX500 driving mine and its not too bad at all. My new room will be getting in wall LCR tho.

I've got an existing Denon AVR 1912 that I will be using. Whether that needs upgrading at some point, only time will tell.

[Crackie]

garyhun said:

I'll be about 4m from the screen as, like you, i'll be about 1m in from the rear.

The reason I cannot have wall mounted is there is no wall We have a free standing wall about 2.6m wide which contains a fireplace and will house TV with screen dropping in front. One the screen is down it will be over the entire wall and therefore covering any speakers. I know you can get screens to allow sound through but it starts getting complicated. The wall it also clad with a stone/slate which I really would hate to ruin with anything.

A bit like this but with another room on the other side if you get my drift.

Hi Garyhun - the square 5m floorplan and 2.9m height conspire to give a very strong room mode/standing wave at 68Hz. Its easy to make a trap to fix the issue though, basically a wooden box with a hole or short pipe in it. Here's a link to a calculator for the box & hole dimensions if you're interested. http://www.mh-audio.nl/ACalculators.asp#showcalc
Helmholtz resonator is probably the simplest.

[Driller]

The Denon will be fine at anything except crazy volume levels.

Power Junkie said:

The speakers will be fine in the ceiling, What amp are you going to drive it with? Anthem AV MRX510 with its ARC setup works very well indeed. I have the MRX500 driving mine and its not too bad at all. My new room will be getting in wall LCR tho.

What in ceiling speakers are those Mark?

[anonymous-user]

@Crackie - I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

I'm not an audiophile who requires perfection from this stuf, so what you're trying to tell me could be important, or then again not.

[Driller]

Crackie said:

Hi Garyhun - the square 5m floorplan and 2.9m height conspire to give a very strong room mode/standing wave at 68Hz. Its easy to make a trap to fix the issue though, basically a wooden box with a hole or short pipe in it. Here's a link to a calculator for the box & hole dimensions if you're interested. http://www.mh-audio.nl/ACalculators.asp#showcalc
Helmholtz resonator is probably the simplest.

No need for Helmholtz resonators!

Superchunks will do the job beautifully and efficiently. I have 3 in my studio along with various high/mid absorbers.

My superchunks:

Edited by Driller on Thursday 23 January 20:10

Edited by Driller on Thursday 23 January 20:12

[Crackie]

garyhun said:

@Crackie - I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

I'm not an audiophile who requires perfection from this stuf, so what you're trying to tell me could be important, or then again not.

. The dimensions of a room help to 'exaggerate/reinforce' certain frequencies; the length and width of your room are the same and the height is also a harmonic multiple. The result is that your room is very likely have a noticeable drone in the bass. Your Denon amp has a feature called Audyssey built in which should help solve the issue. The link I posted is a different, less technical, method of fixing the issue.

[Power Junkie]

Driller said:

What in ceiling speakers are those Mark?

They are speakercraft mid range so nothing special but with the anthem arc calibration it works well, The paradigm se sub does help too tho.
New system I'm thinking Tannoy DC8i LCR built into wall then tannoy in ceiling dual concentric as surrounds again with the mrx500 driving.