Home Cinema - what kit would you buy??
Discussion
So I am looking at a discreet home cinema in my lounge, I like Sony stuff so at the moment I am leaning towards a Sony Projector - 4k is it worth it vs 1080?? It would be mounted from the ceiling.
Need a new Amp so again like the functionality of Sony Amps? But willing to try a new brand.
Speakers & Subs not really heard any that stand out, but will be going to listen to some, what do you recommend?
Screens, I would like it electric/remote and planning to hide it in the ceiling void.
Sources are via Blue Ray and Apple TV.
I am keen to keep most of it hidden for instance Subs that look like coffee tables appeal to me.
The room size is 15ft 4 by 36ft 7 (ceiling height is 10ft) and split level (see image) the projector will be at the top of this picture in front of the double doors and the seating position in front and behind the split level with a setee on each level. The projector will be mounted directly above the split level steps, however it will be mounted wherever it needs to be for the screen etc. Still working out the max screen size and positions as the various online calculators seem to vary.
Need a new Amp so again like the functionality of Sony Amps? But willing to try a new brand.
Speakers & Subs not really heard any that stand out, but will be going to listen to some, what do you recommend?
Screens, I would like it electric/remote and planning to hide it in the ceiling void.
Sources are via Blue Ray and Apple TV.
I am keen to keep most of it hidden for instance Subs that look like coffee tables appeal to me.
The room size is 15ft 4 by 36ft 7 (ceiling height is 10ft) and split level (see image) the projector will be at the top of this picture in front of the double doors and the seating position in front and behind the split level with a setee on each level. The projector will be mounted directly above the split level steps, however it will be mounted wherever it needs to be for the screen etc. Still working out the max screen size and positions as the various online calculators seem to vary.
If I interpreted that correctly you plan to have the projection screen drop in front of the double doors? If that's the case you have an immediate problem of what to do about the Center speaker. For a room of that size you want a proper speaker setup and this would need a centre speaker mounted at around 1400mm right in front of the doors, anything else is a compromise so you need to consider options. Read up about DOLBY ATMOS, your room is ideal for it (centre speaker not withstanding) and you'll definitely want this if you can make the (minimum) eight speaker setup work.
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/home/index.html#navtray...
Lots of great speakers to suit different installation criteria such as wall mounting, freestanding, in-ceiling etc. Atmos insists on a minimum five (base) surround speakers installed at ear height and a minimum of two overhead channels so if you follow this route speaker type starts to fall into place. Post your intent and we can provide further advise.
Sony projectors are very good and they upscale from FHD to 4k very well, also look at JVC as they fit a similar budget and also perform well. Toss a coin if need be.
Sony amps are also fine but my money Denon or Anthem would be top of the list. Atmos amps are just landing so not all brands have models yet but give it six months and everyone will. If you decide against Atmos then any amp will do and it's all about performance, I'd go with Anthem they have awesome room correction and just sound great.
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/home/index.html#navtray...
Lots of great speakers to suit different installation criteria such as wall mounting, freestanding, in-ceiling etc. Atmos insists on a minimum five (base) surround speakers installed at ear height and a minimum of two overhead channels so if you follow this route speaker type starts to fall into place. Post your intent and we can provide further advise.
Sony projectors are very good and they upscale from FHD to 4k very well, also look at JVC as they fit a similar budget and also perform well. Toss a coin if need be.
Sony amps are also fine but my money Denon or Anthem would be top of the list. Atmos amps are just landing so not all brands have models yet but give it six months and everyone will. If you decide against Atmos then any amp will do and it's all about performance, I'd go with Anthem they have awesome room correction and just sound great.
Here's what we did:
Bought the screen - length determined by the gap it had to fit inbetween. Unit installed between the joists with a gap cut into the ceiling just big enough so the bottom screen bar closes the hole when in the up position. RF Remote control operation but the floorboards above are removable should we need access. Bought from eBay.
Sourced a projector - Now onto our third (x2 Hitachi's then a Panasonic PT-AX200e). The Panasonic is by far the better machine, 1080p was the best you could get at the time and when this one wears out, it'll be replaced by a PT-AE6000e. Gave up trying to calculate throw ratios, just stuck it up on the ceiling and adjusted the size using the zoom. It could do with being closer to the screen, but it's positioned more conveniently to reduce noise (the fans do get a bit noisy).
SkyHD box and BluRay, connected via hdmi to a Sony STR-DN610 amp. Amp has a hdmi output so there's only one lead going to the projector. Speakers are Kef 2005.1, the satellite's are small enough to be wall mounted and the woofer is hidden behind a chair.
The set up works brilliantly, clear pictures, crisp sounds and thumping bass. It's a joy to watch a film on but usually gets used as a normal TV would. My last lamp ran for three years with daily use - far in excess of the recommended lamp life but I keep the filters clean and try to keep the room temperature low - I think that helps a lot.
Bought the screen - length determined by the gap it had to fit inbetween. Unit installed between the joists with a gap cut into the ceiling just big enough so the bottom screen bar closes the hole when in the up position. RF Remote control operation but the floorboards above are removable should we need access. Bought from eBay.
Sourced a projector - Now onto our third (x2 Hitachi's then a Panasonic PT-AX200e). The Panasonic is by far the better machine, 1080p was the best you could get at the time and when this one wears out, it'll be replaced by a PT-AE6000e. Gave up trying to calculate throw ratios, just stuck it up on the ceiling and adjusted the size using the zoom. It could do with being closer to the screen, but it's positioned more conveniently to reduce noise (the fans do get a bit noisy).
SkyHD box and BluRay, connected via hdmi to a Sony STR-DN610 amp. Amp has a hdmi output so there's only one lead going to the projector. Speakers are Kef 2005.1, the satellite's are small enough to be wall mounted and the woofer is hidden behind a chair.
The set up works brilliantly, clear pictures, crisp sounds and thumping bass. It's a joy to watch a film on but usually gets used as a normal TV would. My last lamp ran for three years with daily use - far in excess of the recommended lamp life but I keep the filters clean and try to keep the room temperature low - I think that helps a lot.
Didn't see this earlier in the week Jon.
What sort of budget are you looking at now? It's a big room, so something like KEF 'eggs' are going to struggle to fill it at a decent level.
Is the floor lower at the bottom of the picture? If so the sofa down there might be too low to see the screen properly (unless I've got it back to front). If possible it would be better to have the screen in front of the bay window and then you'd have the tiered seating like a real cinema with the back sofa higher than the front.
Projector wise you'd be looking at around £5,800 for a Sony VW300ES which is 4K, or you can get a pseudo 4K model from JVC called the X500 for around £4,000. There is a cheaper 1080p Sony HW40ES for around £2k or a higher spec'd one the HW50ES for around £2,800. Panasonic have stopped selling projectors now, I personally wouldn't recommend one anyway based on two previous models I owned and the QC was pretty poor IMHO, very poor focus and uniformity. Obviously a demo comparing the 4K/faux4K/1080p models is the best way to answer your questions.
IMHO the VW300ES is ticking a 4K box, but due to some corner cutting (well for a 4K projector it is a budget model) the black levels aren't as good as the more expensive models and definitely not on a par with the JVCs (I've seen the more expensive VW500ES and it still didn't match the JVCs on this score IMHO). However the motion tends to be better on the Sony projectors and of course it is true 4K, so its swings and roundabouts.
Amp wise you could look at something like the Denon X5200 if you want to Atmos route (I've not heard Atmos myself yet, so reserve judgement, but I'd need at least another £1,500 pair of surround speakers to match, so it's not a priority for me). You could at least wire for it and add the ceiling speakers later, but it seems a bit pointless to buy an (expensive) Atmos amp now and then not use the key feature. The Anthem option is a good suggestion as the room EQ is reportedly excellent, but it's focus is on good sound and not features, so it doesn't do Atmos. In that room I reckon you'd need to consider the MX710 or the MX510 at least. the MX310 is 5.1 only and lower power output still.
XTZ speakers seem to be getting a lot of positive feedback at the moment; very keen pricing and some suggest not far off the KK or MK alternatives which are considerably more expensive. These can be demo'd at Epic HomeCinema in Langley: http://www.epichomecinema.co.uk/ You will need a subwoofer with these speakers (or the alternative which I'd suggest might be something like the MK Sound M series, or go up to the LCR750 or LCR950). http://mkloudspeakers.com/home-cinema-products.asp...
For custom build subs, then might be worth contacting Gecko in Newbury link as per the MK speakers above. They sell the USC subwoofers (which mine are a blatant rip off from
). I believe they do a version that looks like a coffee table in whatever finish you like, however we're talking something like £2k I think. FWIW I built my pair for £1,300 and just recycled an old Oak AV unit for one of them. Not sure if you've seen it before, but picture below.
Hope that's some help and at least bumps the thread back to the top for others to chime in.
What sort of budget are you looking at now? It's a big room, so something like KEF 'eggs' are going to struggle to fill it at a decent level.
Is the floor lower at the bottom of the picture? If so the sofa down there might be too low to see the screen properly (unless I've got it back to front). If possible it would be better to have the screen in front of the bay window and then you'd have the tiered seating like a real cinema with the back sofa higher than the front.
Projector wise you'd be looking at around £5,800 for a Sony VW300ES which is 4K, or you can get a pseudo 4K model from JVC called the X500 for around £4,000. There is a cheaper 1080p Sony HW40ES for around £2k or a higher spec'd one the HW50ES for around £2,800. Panasonic have stopped selling projectors now, I personally wouldn't recommend one anyway based on two previous models I owned and the QC was pretty poor IMHO, very poor focus and uniformity. Obviously a demo comparing the 4K/faux4K/1080p models is the best way to answer your questions.
IMHO the VW300ES is ticking a 4K box, but due to some corner cutting (well for a 4K projector it is a budget model) the black levels aren't as good as the more expensive models and definitely not on a par with the JVCs (I've seen the more expensive VW500ES and it still didn't match the JVCs on this score IMHO). However the motion tends to be better on the Sony projectors and of course it is true 4K, so its swings and roundabouts.
Amp wise you could look at something like the Denon X5200 if you want to Atmos route (I've not heard Atmos myself yet, so reserve judgement, but I'd need at least another £1,500 pair of surround speakers to match, so it's not a priority for me). You could at least wire for it and add the ceiling speakers later, but it seems a bit pointless to buy an (expensive) Atmos amp now and then not use the key feature. The Anthem option is a good suggestion as the room EQ is reportedly excellent, but it's focus is on good sound and not features, so it doesn't do Atmos. In that room I reckon you'd need to consider the MX710 or the MX510 at least. the MX310 is 5.1 only and lower power output still.
XTZ speakers seem to be getting a lot of positive feedback at the moment; very keen pricing and some suggest not far off the KK or MK alternatives which are considerably more expensive. These can be demo'd at Epic HomeCinema in Langley: http://www.epichomecinema.co.uk/ You will need a subwoofer with these speakers (or the alternative which I'd suggest might be something like the MK Sound M series, or go up to the LCR750 or LCR950). http://mkloudspeakers.com/home-cinema-products.asp...
For custom build subs, then might be worth contacting Gecko in Newbury link as per the MK speakers above. They sell the USC subwoofers (which mine are a blatant rip off from
). I believe they do a version that looks like a coffee table in whatever finish you like, however we're talking something like £2k I think. FWIW I built my pair for £1,300 and just recycled an old Oak AV unit for one of them. Not sure if you've seen it before, but picture below.Hope that's some help and at least bumps the thread back to the top for others to chime in.
May I be so bold as to suggest you take a very close look at the Epson LS10000 - new to the market, similar to the JVC 4K offerings in that it's not true 4K, but it is a laser projector, rather than lamps - with a life cycle of 30K hours. In my opinion, having seen all offerings from JVC, Sony and the new Epson, my money is heading Epson's way.
I'd also be taking a look at Seymour AV, if you don't mind importing your screen....
I'd also be taking a look at Seymour AV, if you don't mind importing your screen....
Edited by bradders on Sunday 7th December 13:10
Hi sorry for the delay in responding, my notifications had been directed to junk! (all sorted now!)
Thanks for the replies, made good reading.
Re the Centre speaker, yes I had also thought about this issue and think an easy way to solve it would be to have a peice of furniture on wheels that I can simply move into position when we watch a movie. I would have this issue either end of the lounge to be honest so don't plan to move away from having the screen by the double doors.
I am definatley going for Dolby Atmos having heard this in a demo room a few weeks ago and liked the surround sound that the Pioneer SC-LX88 demo unit produced.
My budget is approved
at up to ten, which I think is easily enough if I go for a 1080p projector but may get stretched if I go for the 4k one.
4k vs 1080p - it feels like all the TVs are moving over to 4k and the 1080p ones are coming down in price, so I guess the more TVs that are sold the more 4k content will start to be produced..... I have not seen a 4k vs 1080p projector set up yet, so this is on my list for the new year. I will decide based on my viewing on the 4k projector, as I am keen to future proof as much as possible.
Speakers/sound will need to be positioned around the steps as OLDSKOOLRS has spotted I will be placing setees on the two different levels (the bottom of the image is 1.5ft higher), when we watch films to give a cinema like feel in a living room. The house is detached so noise polution is not an issue and I am open to ceiling mounted speakers and a dual sub set up.
I will probably be getting the ceiling skimmed and speakers/screem installed at the same time as downlighters, the current lights will get in the way of the image. I have also looked at hiding the projector, however I don't think this is nesesary especially if I go for a white one and ceiling mount it.
Thanks for the advice on different AMPs and non Sony suggestions, this is opening my eyes to other kit to try out before I buy.
Cheers,
Jon
Thanks for the replies, made good reading.
Re the Centre speaker, yes I had also thought about this issue and think an easy way to solve it would be to have a peice of furniture on wheels that I can simply move into position when we watch a movie. I would have this issue either end of the lounge to be honest so don't plan to move away from having the screen by the double doors.
I am definatley going for Dolby Atmos having heard this in a demo room a few weeks ago and liked the surround sound that the Pioneer SC-LX88 demo unit produced.
My budget is approved
at up to ten, which I think is easily enough if I go for a 1080p projector but may get stretched if I go for the 4k one.4k vs 1080p - it feels like all the TVs are moving over to 4k and the 1080p ones are coming down in price, so I guess the more TVs that are sold the more 4k content will start to be produced..... I have not seen a 4k vs 1080p projector set up yet, so this is on my list for the new year. I will decide based on my viewing on the 4k projector, as I am keen to future proof as much as possible.
Speakers/sound will need to be positioned around the steps as OLDSKOOLRS has spotted I will be placing setees on the two different levels (the bottom of the image is 1.5ft higher), when we watch films to give a cinema like feel in a living room. The house is detached so noise polution is not an issue
and I am open to ceiling mounted speakers and a dual sub set up.I will probably be getting the ceiling skimmed and speakers/screem installed at the same time as downlighters, the current lights will get in the way of the image. I have also looked at hiding the projector, however I don't think this is nesesary especially if I go for a white one and ceiling mount it.
Thanks for the advice on different AMPs and non Sony suggestions, this is opening my eyes to other kit to try out before I buy.
Cheers,
Jon
Edited by BrightYellowTVR on Wednesday 10th December 21:37
I have had the fortune to work on one of the first domestic Dolby Atmos rooms in the UK and it does sound amazing. But it was a dedicated room with some amazing speaker and amp combinations.
To be honest, your budget is not massive and I would not let the lure of Atmos make you scrimp on performance else were. As has been said, you are going to need some good, largish speakers for that room and if you short change yourself on these you could end up driving them harder to get the volume out of them only to find they distort are those levels cause your ears to hurt, hum, ring if your in it for to long.
There was a well known demo room that has been under spec'ed on speakers for a long time and the quality of sound from it was just awful. They have upgraded it to an Atmos room now which I have not heard, I do hope it is better than the last one.
V.
To be honest, your budget is not massive and I would not let the lure of Atmos make you scrimp on performance else were. As has been said, you are going to need some good, largish speakers for that room and if you short change yourself on these you could end up driving them harder to get the volume out of them only to find they distort are those levels cause your ears to hurt, hum, ring if your in it for to long.
There was a well known demo room that has been under spec'ed on speakers for a long time and the quality of sound from it was just awful. They have upgraded it to an Atmos room now which I have not heard, I do hope it is better than the last one.
V.
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