First "proper" hifi...

[WreckedGecko]

Hi Guys,

I would really appreciate your thoughts on what I'm thinking of putting together, given I don't have much experience on this side!

I am starting to put together my first "proper" Hifi, now that I have a nice big garden office to put it in. I put call it proper but obviously its way down on some of the real audiophile stuff.

Initial budget is pretty limited, but I figure I can upgrade as I get the chance. I would love to have a valve amp, but they are very punchy price wise.

This is mostly for vinyl and Ipod use, as I don't have many CD's any more and have decided to start buying vinyl again after a 10 year break.
Back then I had a bit of fairly shoddy secondhand stuff that wasn't bril, so it would be good to see what the experts on here recommend.

Will also have to work with the TV as I'm keen to run everything through the Hifi.

I am thinking of the below:

Marantz PM6005 Amp
DAC of some kind (any suggestions?)
Project Essential 2 turntable (or Elemental if there's not a vast difference)
Cambridge Audio Aero 6 Floorstanders
or
Q Acoustics concept 20s


Given the Marantz doesn't have any USB input, I'm guessing a DAC is the only way to go? Or is there anything else I am missing?

Thanks!

[varsas]

I would say the first thing to do is go and listen to some stuff. Personally I'd concentrate on speakers first. Just basic things you need to answer, do you like floor standers or stand mounts? Do you like a nice fat, punchy sound or a more delicate, detailed sound? Two speakers that look the same and cost the same can sound very different. On a tight budget I wouldn't rule out second hand speakers, although there's little to no chance of a proper demo, sadly.

Again, turntable is important, listen to a few.

Once you know what speakers and turntable you like, you can get an amp that's suitable (by that I mean has the features you want and sounds good with the speakers you are choosing), and a DAC.

If you want a good connection to your TV you really need an amp with an optical input, it'll make things easier and better quality then, say, running the amp from a headphone socket. Obviously the amp will usually need a suitable 'phono stage' (there are two types, MM and MC, I'm sure someone will be along soon to explain more) for the turntable. This can make a difference to the sound so make sure the turntable you want works well with the amp you are considering before you buy.

Edited by varsas on Monday 21st September 19:03

[CubanPete]

I have a set of second hand Kef 104s.

Sound beautiful, look cool, bigger than modern speakers. Several of my more audiophile friends have since gone out and bought similar!

[ian996]

If you are on a budget, I'd think very seriously about stand-mounts rather than floor-standers. For a given price, more goes into the cabinet of the floor-standers, leaving less for drivers/crossovers and, below a certain level, the larger cabinet severely impacts the sound as it's likely to resonate in a bad way.

Stand-mounts obviously don't go so low, but many are voiced to give a "punchy" propulsive sound, which can compensate for the lack of deep bass. On the flip-side, it tends to take more power to drive stand-mounts but, on balance, stand-mounts have the advantage in smaller spaces. (Obviously this depends on how big your garden office is...if it;s a barn get the biggest floor-standers you can!)


Also, consider second-hand speakers - you can often pick up KEF Q1s and the like for peanuts, and they are great performers

[WreckedGecko]

What about bookshelf speakers? Are they alright or do you lose a lot of quality by not having them on a proper stand?

[P700DEE]

ian996 said:

If you are on a budget, I'd think very seriously about stand-mounts rather than floor-standers. For a given price, more goes into the cabinet of the floor-standers, leaving less for drivers/crossovers and, below a certain level, the larger cabinet severely impacts the sound as it's likely to resonate in a bad way.

Stand-mounts obviously don't go so low, but many are voiced to give a "punchy" propulsive sound, which can compensate for the lack of deep bass. On the flip-side, it tends to take more power to drive stand-mounts but, on balance, stand-mounts have the advantage in smaller spaces. (Obviously this depends on how big your garden office is...if it;s a barn get the biggest floor-standers you can!)


Also, consider second-hand speakers - you can often pick up KEF Q1s and the like for peanuts, and they are great performers

??? Whilst stand mount speakers are less expensive than floor mount by the time you've bought a stand they are more expensive. I would recommend floor mounts as you don't have to buy a stand and the bass is usually better. Buy second hand especially with speakers there are great bargains to be had. Spend money on speakers this is the biggest difference in Hi-Fi sound. Big floor standing speakers are easy to drive too so small amps can work well.

[ian996]

P700DEE said:

ian996 said:

If you are on a budget, I'd think very seriously about stand-mounts rather than floor-standers. For a given price, more goes into the cabinet of the floor-standers, leaving less for drivers/crossovers and, below a certain level, the larger cabinet severely impacts the sound as it's likely to resonate in a bad way.

Stand-mounts obviously don't go so low, but many are voiced to give a "punchy" propulsive sound, which can compensate for the lack of deep bass. On the flip-side, it tends to take more power to drive stand-mounts but, on balance, stand-mounts have the advantage in smaller spaces. (Obviously this depends on how big your garden office is...if it;s a barn get the biggest floor-standers you can!)


Also, consider second-hand speakers - you can often pick up KEF Q1s and the like for peanuts, and they are great performers

??? Whilst stand mount speakers are less expensive than floor mount by the time you've bought a stand they are more expensive. I would recommend floor mounts as you don't have to buy a stand and the bass is usually better. Buy second hand especially with speakers there are great bargains to be had. Spend money on speakers this is the biggest difference in Hi-Fi sound. Big floor standing speakers are easy to drive too so small amps can work well.

I think we probably have a perfect argument here for auditioning and letting your own ears decide!

[WreckedGecko]

Lot to take in!

Feel a trip to Richer Sounds coming on...

Anyone got any recommendations for hifi shops in central/southwest London?

[Monty Python]

My advice - listen to the system first. You can read reviews until you're blue in the face but that's no guarantee that they'll all sit happily together.

[varsas]

WreckedGecko said:

What about bookshelf speakers? Are they alright or do you lose a lot of quality by not having them on a proper stand?

'Bookshelf' is the same as 'standmount'. A decent stand is pretty important. What the speaker sits on needs to be sturdy, stiff and heavy so it's doesn't vibrate and the speaker needs to be the correct distance from the back wall, usually a foot or so but that varies. Insulating the speaker from whatever it is on with blu-tak or something helps. I've recently discovered that wall mounting is not a bad solution, as long as the speakers are front ported.

As it happens, a bookshelf is not a good place for a speaker. They aren't heavy or sturdy enough (so the book shelf will resonate) and the speakers will be too close to the backwall! Unless the speakers are designed for it, a bookshelf would make a terrible stand!

[Revs_Addiction]

Caution is advised with Richer Sounds and Cambridge Audio. Listen with your ears and not to what the salesman is saying, as Julian Richer is a majority stakeholder in Cambridge Audio! They will no doubt be incentivised to sell C.A over the other brands they stock.

[davek_964]

ian996 said:

P700DEE said:

ian996 said:

If you are on a budget, I'd think very seriously about stand-mounts rather than floor-standers. For a given price, more goes into the cabinet of the floor-standers, leaving less for drivers/crossovers and, below a certain level, the larger cabinet severely impacts the sound as it's likely to resonate in a bad way.

Stand-mounts obviously don't go so low, but many are voiced to give a "punchy" propulsive sound, which can compensate for the lack of deep bass. On the flip-side, it tends to take more power to drive stand-mounts but, on balance, stand-mounts have the advantage in smaller spaces. (Obviously this depends on how big your garden office is...if it;s a barn get the biggest floor-standers you can!)


Also, consider second-hand speakers - you can often pick up KEF Q1s and the like for peanuts, and they are great performers

??? Whilst stand mount speakers are less expensive than floor mount by the time you've bought a stand they are more expensive. I would recommend floor mounts as you don't have to buy a stand and the bass is usually better. Buy second hand especially with speakers there are great bargains to be had. Spend money on speakers this is the biggest difference in Hi-Fi sound. Big floor standing speakers are easy to drive too so small amps can work well.

I think we probably have a perfect argument here for auditioning and letting your own ears decide!

And if possible, you should be listening to the kit in your own home before buying - although that will be harder if you're starting from scratch. I've had my KEF 201/2s for a good few years now, but when I was in the process of buying them I tried a number of speakers - floor mounts and stand mounts. There was one set of floor standers I absolutely loved when demo'd in the shop (very similar setup as I used at home) - so much so, that although they were well above budget I very nearly handed over my credit card there and then. But when I demo'd them at home, they simply didn't work at all - the sound was flat and lifeless. Was nearly a very expensive mistake!

Even the KEFs nearly didn't make it - there was negligible difference between them and a set of speakers that were a lot cheaper - until I repositioned slightly, and then loved them.

[WreckedGecko]

I have never really looked at KEFs.

Will definitely do so now.

Are home tests a common option? Its not something I have come across before.

[Monty Python]

WreckedGecko said:

I have never really looked at KEFs.

Will definitely do so now.

Are home tests a common option? Its not something I have come across before.

Some places are happy to do home auditions, but most of the decent places have dedicated listening rooms.

[davek_964]

Monty Python said:

WreckedGecko said:

I have never really looked at KEFs.

Will definitely do so now.

Are home tests a common option? Its not something I have come across before.

Some places are happy to do home auditions, but most of the decent places have dedicated listening rooms.

Decent places do both - audition in their listening room (where they will try and use a setup as close to your own as possible) and then a home demo if you want one.

I've done that with Audio-T (although not sure they still exist) and Unilet in New Malden (where I got my speakers and at least one of my amps).