CRT V's DLP

[crossy67]

A question for those of you who have seen a few different types of projectors.

I have had CRT projectors for the past 10 years and at the moment have a Barco 1209s Data, it's been professionally set up and is displaying 1080p on Blurays. It has now died, the display turns it's self off as soon as you turn the projector on.

Here starts the quandary!

Before I bought my 1st projector I went to see a few LCD ones, I just didn't like the picture, they always seemed too shiny and false, so I opted for the bulky, noisy CRT. 10 years on the projector I loved for the past 7 years has died I am asking my self have LCD/DLP moved on enough to tempt me away?

I have been recommended the Benq W1070, if I were to go down this route I'd need to do a bit of minor building work and some rewiring to re-site it. I'd want to see one working before I parted with my cash, here is the biggest problem. I live in France and would end up having to fly back to the UK, did I mention I am on a tight budget?

Options are get my old Barco repaired, this would mean driving back to the UK and leaving it with someone who hopefully could fix it before we had to return home.

Buy a Benq blind and cross my fingers.

Lastly, way over budget but so tempting it's driving me mad. I have seen another 1209 with HD lenses and Greg Eiseman board upgrade. This upgrade is supposed to make the 1209 perform better than any other CRT ever made. So tempting but it's 2k€, a good 1300€ more than the Benq.

Anyone have much experience of the projectors in question or comparisons between CRT and LCD projectors care to comment please do. I'm going round in circles.

[OldSkoolRS]

I do know of a few ex CRT owners who ended up with JVC projectors, though they are considerably above your DLP budget, they do often turn up used on places like AVForums which has a classifieds section. The JVCs have the best native on/off contrast, but they also have a variable aperture setting to control light output, so you can close the aperture right down to restrict light output and also gain from increased contrast due to reduced internal light scatter. You won't get the same fade to black as a CRT, but this will be the closest option to that, plus the aperture control means you will be able to set brightness down to a similar level to what you're used to with CRT.

I found DLP looks a bit too much like a TV type image and they also tend to have fairly low on/off contrast (quite 'grey' looking in dark scenes, but can have higher ANSI contrast (intrascene contrast) so brighter scenes can look quite punchy and have good depth. The other issue is that with single chip DLP they use a colour wheel to 'flash' the red, green and blue colours briefly on screen to trick the eye into seeing the overall colour. Some viewers can see a kind of 'rainbow' effect on fast moving/high contrast images and in some cases it can induce headaches (I can't watch more than a few minutes before this happens to me). Therefore a demo is highly recommended before committing.

Keep your eyes open for use JVC HD series projectors such as the HD750 or HD950, or perhaps the later X series such as X70 or X90 (though this series had lamp issues, so bank on buying a new improved '003' series lamp if you find one of these). If you do buy a JVC, don't ever fit a non JVC lamp to it as they have been known to damage the ballast board which would probably cost as much as the used projector to repair.

[crossy67]

Nice one, thanks for the tips. I'll take a peek for a JVC unit in a bit. I have seen them mentioned before but no model numbers so I was in the dark (like the pun?).

Edited by crossy67 on Sunday 8th November 15:48

[varsas]

I was looking for a budget PJ a few years back, and couldn't live with a DLP because of the dreaded 'rainbow effect'; I seem very suseptible to that sort of thing, I can't watch most plasma's either because of the flicker. Thank god for LCD TV's and projectors!

There are actually two types of LCD projector; the cheaper, 'straight' LCD such as the Epson EHTW 6600 (which shine light through LCD screens, just like a TV) and the LcOS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon) type (which bounce the light off screens); as used by the JVC PJ's mentioned, Sony and Epson with the LS 1000. LcOS has all the benfits of LCD with much better native black (which implies much better contrast) but is more expensive, the just-replaced Sony VPL-40 might be the cheapest on sale at the moment at £1,600 but my understanding is the JVC projectors (also about to be/have just been refreshed) still have a better black level.

From what you have said, you won't be happy with a budget straight LCD projector, the black level is still pretty bad. That means DLP is your cheapest option (but as has been said, you must see one first) or an LcOS type PJ. I've never seen a CRT based projector, they sound interesting!

[crossy67]

CRT's are great but big and not as easy to set up, you'll also be forever tweaking the convergance if you like perfection.

I saw a DLP projector before I bought my 1st CRT, it was not nice, the rainbow effect was really bad and would have driven me crazy.

[OldSkoolRS]

While I don't think the newer Benq would be as bad, it certainly underlines my earlier comment about having a demo first. Given the strengths (and weaknesses) of CRT I'm more of the opinion that a DLP is about the furthest you could get from that type of image: CRTS for great blacks (inc fade to black), perhaps not very high ANSI contrast (so less punchy bright scenes) and generally lower light output.

The only thing with JVCs is that they can suffer from motion blur. It didn't bother me when I had a HD350, though my subsequent X35 then current X500 were supposed to be better in this regard, not that I've noticed. Of course there is always something negative about any projector (even the extremely expensive Sony VW1000ES has it's faults), so you just have to choose your poison really.

A used Sony HW40ES or HW30ES might be worth looking for as they have better motion, but their lens isn't so good and tends not to look as sharp as the JVC, plus the native contrast is significantly lower (and only the more expensive HW55ES has a dynamic iris to help give the impression of higher contrast).

[tdm34]

I bought a JVC RS10 (pro version of the HD350) two months ago for £600 and it's stunning, got it off ebay with a 350 mile roundtrip to collect
I wanted to see it working before handing over my cash, it hasn't put a foot wrong since.

As OldSkoolRS says if you want a DLP, get an audition because if there are any spectacles wearers watching it they'll not thank you, I wear specs and I haven't found any single chip DLP projector that isn't like watching a migraine attack...

[Warmfuzzies]

tdm34 said:

I bought a JVC RS10 (pro version of the HD350) two months ago for £600 and it's stunning, got it off ebay with a 350 mile roundtrip to collect
I wanted to see it working before handing over my cash, it hasn't put a foot wrong since.

As OldSkoolRS says if you want a DLP, get an audition because if there are any spectacles wearers watching it they'll not thank you, I wear specs and I haven't found any single chip DLP projector that isn't like watching a migraine attack...

Odd because I don't get any of that on our InFocus in76 unless I look obliquely and then out of peripheral vision

Had ours for yonks, still liked by us all

[tdm34]

Warmfuzzies said:

tdm34 said:

I bought a JVC RS10 (pro version of the HD350) two months ago for £600 and it's stunning, got it off ebay with a 350 mile roundtrip to collect
I wanted to see it working before handing over my cash, it hasn't put a foot wrong since.

As OldSkoolRS says if you want a DLP, get an audition because if there are any spectacles wearers watching it they'll not thank you, I wear specs and I haven't found any single chip DLP projector that isn't like watching a migraine attack...

Odd because I don't get any of that on our InFocus in76 unless I look obliquely and then out of peripheral vision

Had ours for yonks, still liked by us all

Not everyone is susceptible to the "rainbow effect" but in my experience spectacle wearers generally are...

[crossy67]

I The rainbow effect was the biggest thing that put me off the DLP. I don't ware glasses.

[Jarcy]

Warmfuzzies said:

Odd because I don't get any of that on our InFocus in76 unless I look obliquely and then out of peripheral vision

Had ours for yonks, still liked by us all

I have recently replaced our InFocus In76, but none of us were susceptible to the rainbow effect on that model (2 of the family being glasses wearers). I did test whether I could induce the rainbow effect, and by flicking my eyes rapidly across the screen I could see it clearly. But in normal viewing and tracking on-screen movement I never once noticed it in 8 years. It was a great projector for the money, but there's much better available now.

So I was biased in favour of DLP, but after checking the reviews of LCDs I've taken the plunge and got the Panasonic PT-AT6000. It's still being sold at the £3k list price in places, but managed to pick one up for little over £1k (new). And I'm blown away by it. A big step up. Contrast and brightness so much better - the things that worried me about LCD.
I'd pitch this as a mid-range PJ that can be picked up for budget money.

My only slight disappointment is the 3D performance in that the screen is significantly darker in 3D (this is my first 3D projector), whereas the difference between 2D & 3D on my Samsung plasma is not so noticeable. Perhaps all 3D projectors have this snag?

[varsas]

Jarcy said:

Warmfuzzies said:

Odd because I don't get any of that on our InFocus in76 unless I look obliquely and then out of peripheral vision

Had ours for yonks, still liked by us all

I have recently replaced our InFocus In76, but none of us were susceptible to the rainbow effect on that model (2 of the family being glasses wearers). I did test whether I could induce the rainbow effect, and by flicking my eyes rapidly across the screen I could see it clearly. But in normal viewing and tracking on-screen movement I never once noticed it in 8 years. It was a great projector for the money, but there's much better available now.

So I was biased in favour of DLP, but after checking the reviews of LCDs I've taken the plunge and got the Panasonic PT-AT6000. It's still being sold at the £3k list price in places, but managed to pick one up for little over £1k (new). And I'm blown away by it. A big step up. Contrast and brightness so much better - the things that worried me about LCD.
I'd pitch this as a mid-range PJ that can be picked up for budget money.

My only slight disappointment is the 3D performance in that the screen is significantly darker in 3D (this is my first 3D projector), whereas the difference between 2D & 3D on my Samsung plasma is not so noticeable. Perhaps all 3D projectors have this snag?

The brightness drop you describe is because of how the 3D works on your PJ. 'Active' 3D, as used in all(?) PJ's and some flat screens actually filter the image coming to your eyes, the glasses have shutters that shield each eye from every other frame (the frame that eye is not supposed to see). Basically this means you only see half the frames, and so half the brightness. Since projectors generally lack brightness anyway it's more noticable than it would be on a TV. It's possible your TV uses a passive system (are the glasses light weight, with no electronics?) which doesn't have that drawback.

[gizlaroc]

1209 is still very good.

Where are you based now?

You really need to speak to James from Oppo, who used to be the tech at CRT Projectors.
He still knows Barcos better than anyone on the planet, and still has lots of parts kicking around.

If you need his number blip me a PM.

[crossy67]

PM on it's way thanks.

[crossy67]

Hmmm, can't seem to PM but yes very interested in his number. I'm going to do a few checks tomorrow on the power supply that is a known weak point that can cause the symptoms I have. I'm in south west France but traveling back to the UK next Thursday for a few days. Possibility I could drop it off on the way through and collect on the way back.

Thanks all for your input, really helpful and thought provoking.

[gizlaroc]

I have sent you an email.