Easiest way to 'do it all' - hifi & home cinema (if poss)
Discussion
Being firmly stuck at the turn of the century when it comes to hifi (and another 8 years earlier when it comes to music), what is the best way to move from my separates system (Arcam, NAD, Kef & Project parts with a Yamaha micro system elsewhere) to a more flexible streaming set-up?
I have approx. 300 cd's I've never got around to putting onto a laptop, but am happy to do so (albeit slowly).
Ideally I'd like something that could rip any CDs to flac (though this isn't a deal breaker as I could do it myself), provide good quality sound and if possible do multi-room too. Our house is split level, so we have reception rooms on different floors.
Is the best option to run a NAS and say a Naim Muso in the main room with say Sonos Play1 in the other, or would this cause problems with splitting the end outputs? I see there are also things like the Novafidelity range that have cd players built in but to be honest, I'm a little lost as to whats the best way to go. 2 channel seems a lot easier...
By the way... as much as I like my separates, even I am happy to see them go providing sound quality remains at a good level, hence the mention of the Naim Muso system.
I have approx. 300 cd's I've never got around to putting onto a laptop, but am happy to do so (albeit slowly).
Ideally I'd like something that could rip any CDs to flac (though this isn't a deal breaker as I could do it myself), provide good quality sound and if possible do multi-room too. Our house is split level, so we have reception rooms on different floors.
Is the best option to run a NAS and say a Naim Muso in the main room with say Sonos Play1 in the other, or would this cause problems with splitting the end outputs? I see there are also things like the Novafidelity range that have cd players built in but to be honest, I'm a little lost as to whats the best way to go. 2 channel seems a lot easier...
By the way... as much as I like my separates, even I am happy to see them go providing sound quality remains at a good level, hence the mention of the Naim Muso system.
I use a 2TB Novafidelity X12 in my system and think its superb 
. I only use a fraction of what it can do because I only use it as a NAS to supply a variable level, 24/192 optical output to my main system. I previously used a laptop as source but have now ripped just over 1000 CDs as WAVs. This has used about 40% of the hard drive. Vinyl is going on next.........
On top of that it has a good on-board amp, can be used as a pre amp to supply multiple digital and/or analogue outputs so can do multi-room; you could use these pre amp outputs to feed your existing kit. Its easy to hook up an additional NAS or other sources such as mem sticks via 3 USB inputs. It can stream from networks, stream internet radio like Quobuz; you can record the internet radio too. The 2TB version has storage for 5200 albums as FLACS which is far more than most will ever need; its also easy to rip and archive your vinyl and then allocate artwork etc.
I always advocate listening for yourself, preferably with your own speakers in your own home. Not sure which Novafidelity dealers, if any, will do a home trial though; if just listening in-store then Richer Sounds sell the X12.
My favourite feature on the unit is its random play; when shuffling through your collection it will spit out old gems you've long forgotten. Press a couple of buttons and it will then play the remainder of that particular album, or everything by that artist, or everything in the same genre etc etc. I'm rediscovering and enjoying loads of stuff and for that feature alone its been worth every penny.
. I only use a fraction of what it can do because I only use it as a NAS to supply a variable level, 24/192 optical output to my main system. I previously used a laptop as source but have now ripped just over 1000 CDs as WAVs. This has used about 40% of the hard drive. Vinyl is going on next......... On top of that it has a good on-board amp, can be used as a pre amp to supply multiple digital and/or analogue outputs so can do multi-room; you could use these pre amp outputs to feed your existing kit. Its easy to hook up an additional NAS or other sources such as mem sticks via 3 USB inputs. It can stream from networks, stream internet radio like Quobuz; you can record the internet radio too. The 2TB version has storage for 5200 albums as FLACS which is far more than most will ever need; its also easy to rip and archive your vinyl and then allocate artwork etc.
I always advocate listening for yourself, preferably with your own speakers in your own home. Not sure which Novafidelity dealers, if any, will do a home trial though; if just listening in-store then Richer Sounds sell the X12.
My favourite feature on the unit is its random play; when shuffling through your collection it will spit out old gems you've long forgotten. Press a couple of buttons and it will then play the remainder of that particular album, or everything by that artist, or everything in the same genre etc etc. I'm rediscovering and enjoying loads of stuff and for that feature alone its been worth every penny.
Edited by Crackie on Sunday 27th December 12:00
How much of a priority is true multi room to you? Do you want your 'other' room set up to be in sync with your main room setup?
I get the feeling that the true benefit in the sonos setup is the multi room bit. If you're not fully utilising this there may be better/cheaper options available.
Looking at it the other way, if you want to go down the sonos route but use something higher spec in the main room then you'll need to look at the connect or connect amp.
Alternatively the muso can multi room with other musos so a great excuse to buy two
I get the feeling that the true benefit in the sonos setup is the multi room bit. If you're not fully utilising this there may be better/cheaper options available.
Looking at it the other way, if you want to go down the sonos route but use something higher spec in the main room then you'll need to look at the connect or connect amp.
Alternatively the muso can multi room with other musos so a great excuse to buy two
A DLNA NAS somewhere feeding a DLNA compliant BluRay player? This is the way I plan to do it, and have tested. You have a NAS as a DLNA library, use your phone as the client, to control which song is played etc and use whatever device you want as a renderer. The client can send any song in the library to any renderer. Devices can serve more than one purpose, your phone can be client and renderer, for example. This has a few advantages:
Sound quality. You can rip in full-fat .wav with no quality loss and play back on your existing, high quality, kit.
Flexability. You can use anything DLNA compliant to actually play the music; a TV in the living room, the micro system in the kitchen, your phone or a BluRay player connected up to the most extravegant 2 channel HiFi in the world. The same system will also work for films, although I wouldn't do that over WiFi. It also means you can use your touch screen phone as a remote, which is nice.
Price. I'm sure you already have a smart phone (Apple or android is fine). That means all you need is a £50 BluRay player and a cheap NAS. 300 CD's will only take up about 200GB. Hell, with the right one you could store it all on a tablet, use that as the library and client. For now just use your Laptop as the library.
I am assuming you have a house-wide network, but then any multi-room system needs that and WiFi should do.
Sound quality. You can rip in full-fat .wav with no quality loss and play back on your existing, high quality, kit.
Flexability. You can use anything DLNA compliant to actually play the music; a TV in the living room, the micro system in the kitchen, your phone or a BluRay player connected up to the most extravegant 2 channel HiFi in the world. The same system will also work for films, although I wouldn't do that over WiFi. It also means you can use your touch screen phone as a remote, which is nice.
Price. I'm sure you already have a smart phone (Apple or android is fine). That means all you need is a £50 BluRay player and a cheap NAS. 300 CD's will only take up about 200GB. Hell, with the right one you could store it all on a tablet, use that as the library and client. For now just use your Laptop as the library.
I am assuming you have a house-wide network, but then any multi-room system needs that and WiFi should do.
Edited by varsas on Sunday 27th December 13:33
I decided I was happy with 320kb MP3s. Along with fast interest access it means I just store all music on Google which allows up to 50000 tracks for free.
About half of my 4000 tracks were lower quality and hence get auto-upgraded to 320kb as well. Google don't actually store thousands of copies of each track. A client side tool identifies what tracks you have and then gives you access to the master copy on their servers.
Sonos happily uses Google as a source and it means I don't need to manage/maintain/backup a NAS.
About half of my 4000 tracks were lower quality and hence get auto-upgraded to 320kb as well. Google don't actually store thousands of copies of each track. A client side tool identifies what tracks you have and then gives you access to the master copy on their servers.
Sonos happily uses Google as a source and it means I don't need to manage/maintain/backup a NAS.
Thank you for all the replies so far - I think my problem is though is there's no 'right' way to do it at the moment. It still feels like things will change a lot.
In all honesty, multi room is not a necessity, just a nice to have due to the layout of the house and having two reception rooms. The little ones are very little (3 under 2), so they have no need for it and the wife is unlikely to put on some music.
I do like the idea of using Google music as a source though, as I'm sure I wouldn't notice any discernable difference with the background noise 3 little ones make.
Perhaps I'm best to pop into a local shop (preferably a hifi one) and have a good look at the options available.
In all honesty, multi room is not a necessity, just a nice to have due to the layout of the house and having two reception rooms. The little ones are very little (3 under 2), so they have no need for it and the wife is unlikely to put on some music.
I do like the idea of using Google music as a source though, as I'm sure I wouldn't notice any discernable difference with the background noise 3 little ones make.
Perhaps I'm best to pop into a local shop (preferably a hifi one) and have a good look at the options available.
I personally thoroughly recommend burying the idea of having music on hardware-it's onerous to do, relatively expensive and limited to only what you own.
Get a streaming service like Spotify and something like a Gramofon or 3 and you've got all the music you'd ever want, wherever you want and you can easily bus it around the house and outside and when you want to listen to stuff a bit different to what you normally do or discover something new, it's all there under you fingertips.
Fair enough for those who prefer the fixed format of ripped albums but I made the change to Spotify streamed from the cloud from iTunes etc a year ago and have never looked back
Get a streaming service like Spotify and something like a Gramofon or 3 and you've got all the music you'd ever want, wherever you want and you can easily bus it around the house and outside and when you want to listen to stuff a bit different to what you normally do or discover something new, it's all there under you fingertips.
Fair enough for those who prefer the fixed format of ripped albums but I made the change to Spotify streamed from the cloud from iTunes etc a year ago and have never looked back
Driller said:
I personally thoroughly recommend burying the idea of having music on hardware-it's onerous to do, relatively expensive and limited to only what you own.
Get a streaming service like Spotify and something like a Gramofon or 3 and you've got all the music you'd ever want, wherever you want and you can easily bus it around the house and outside and when you want to listen to stuff a bit different to what you normally do or discover something new, it's all there under you fingertips.
Fair enough for those who prefer the fixed format of ripped albums but I made the change to Spotify streamed from the cloud from iTunes etc a year ago and have never looked back
I sometimes use Spotify for background music and agree that ripping to hardware is time consuming but once ripped there is no compromise in sound quality. Spotify Premium service is still only 320K though whereas Quobuz' basic service is 320K with 16/44 and 24/192 also available.Get a streaming service like Spotify and something like a Gramofon or 3 and you've got all the music you'd ever want, wherever you want and you can easily bus it around the house and outside and when you want to listen to stuff a bit different to what you normally do or discover something new, it's all there under you fingertips.
Fair enough for those who prefer the fixed format of ripped albums but I made the change to Spotify streamed from the cloud from iTunes etc a year ago and have never looked back
Crackie said:
Driller said:
I personally thoroughly recommend burying the idea of having music on hardware-it's onerous to do, relatively expensive and limited to only what you own.
Get a streaming service like Spotify and something like a Gramofon or 3 and you've got all the music you'd ever want, wherever you want and you can easily bus it around the house and outside and when you want to listen to stuff a bit different to what you normally do or discover something new, it's all there under you fingertips.
Fair enough for those who prefer the fixed format of ripped albums but I made the change to Spotify streamed from the cloud from iTunes etc a year ago and have never looked back
I sometimes use Spotify for background music and agree that ripping to hardware is time consuming but once ripped there is no compromise in sound quality. Spotify Premium service is still only 320K though whereas Quobuz' basic service is 320K with 16/44 and 24/192 also available.Get a streaming service like Spotify and something like a Gramofon or 3 and you've got all the music you'd ever want, wherever you want and you can easily bus it around the house and outside and when you want to listen to stuff a bit different to what you normally do or discover something new, it's all there under you fingertips.
Fair enough for those who prefer the fixed format of ripped albums but I made the change to Spotify streamed from the cloud from iTunes etc a year ago and have never looked back
Driller said:
I personally thoroughly recommend burying the idea of having music on hardware-it's onerous to do, relatively expensive and limited to only what you own.
Get a streaming service like Spotify and something like a Gramofon or 3 and you've got all the music you'd ever want, wherever you want and you can easily bus it around the house and outside and when you want to listen to stuff a bit different to what you normally do or discover something new, it's all there under you fingertips.
Fair enough for those who prefer the fixed format of ripped albums but I made the change to Spotify streamed from the cloud from iTunes etc a year ago and have never looked back
Completely cack idea - what happens if your internet is off for weeks ?Get a streaming service like Spotify and something like a Gramofon or 3 and you've got all the music you'd ever want, wherever you want and you can easily bus it around the house and outside and when you want to listen to stuff a bit different to what you normally do or discover something new, it's all there under you fingertips.
Fair enough for those who prefer the fixed format of ripped albums but I made the change to Spotify streamed from the cloud from iTunes etc a year ago and have never looked back
varsas said:
And once you've ripped it you can do what you like, put it on your phone, in your car...whatever. You also don't have to worry that one day your favourite album will disappear from the streaming site you use... I must admit I don't get the whole streaming thing, for music or films.
As Rik Mayall would have said "you don't understand streaming because you don't like it!".You can put up to 3000 Spotify songs on your phone at once with bluetooth or a wired connection this puts it in your car.
As far as I know albums don't just "disappear" from Spotify.
The whole point is flexibility and choice and todays connectivity is easily good enough to ensure reliability.
dmsims said:
Completely cack idea - what happens if your internet is off for weeks ?
Good grief what a rubbish argument.I don't know. What happens if you're house gets hit by a meteorite?
varsas said:
And once you've ripped it you can do what you like, put it on your phone, in your car...whatever. You also don't have to worry that one day your favourite album will disappear from the streaming site you use... I must admit I don't get the whole streaming thing, for music or films.
Yes you can export from X12 to other devices..........it will also convert file formats; you can store as WAVs or FLACs on the unit but export to lower res MP3s on mobile devices.Here's a link which has a summary of the features http://www.sygnifi.co.uk/products/nova-fidelity-x1...
Driller said:
Fair enough for those who prefer the fixed format of ripped albums but I made the change to Spotify streamed from the cloud from iTunes etc a year ago and have never looked back
I have no issue at all with streaming and use a MINIX Neo 8 + KODI to stream films.The reason I like the Novafidelity solution is that it covers both bases. It has a big hard drive server for all the stuff you already own but Spotify and Quobuz for streaming; has the ability to record internet radio too. The fact it works as a stand alone or as 'digital hub' to bring existing and old kit up to date makes it a good solution for many.
Edited by Crackie on Tuesday 29th December 15:51
Driller said:
As far as I know albums don't just "disappear" from Spotify.
http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20130724-thom-yorke-v-spotify-the-factsOK, if Spotify works for you, then great. It would not work for me and I don't see how it makes sense for the OP either, not while he already has his music in a physcial format.
Edited by varsas on Tuesday 29th December 15:56
Again this is a non-argument. There at least 20,000,000 songs on spotify and you're talking about 1 band.
I have a TON of CDs and vinyl, a lot of it also on a hard drive and an iPod Classic still plugged into the glove box in the car. So what? It's all there on Spotify with loads more to be discovered.
You feel that strongly about Spotify you have to argue for the OP? How odd!
I have a TON of CDs and vinyl, a lot of it also on a hard drive and an iPod Classic still plugged into the glove box in the car. So what? It's all there on Spotify with loads more to be discovered.
You feel that strongly about Spotify you have to argue for the OP? How odd!
I certainly endorse idea of converting an existing CD library to FLAC or ALAC for on-demand access, this ensures your investment in music is maintained and you always have a default library that can be played at the highest possible quality. Whether you use a 'product' to rip your collection (such as the X12) or software is up to you, personally for the price of an X12 I'd buy a Mac Mini, we use them as servers as they are about the most reliable PC on the market - plus you get a full blown computer thrown in for the price. You'll need an external drive for the ripping part though. If you use software then there are some useful guides on-line such as this one;
http://computers.tutsplus.com/tutorials/an-audioph...
However, whilst audiophiles will always advocate the above the music industry (video as well for that matter) is rapidly moving over to clouded, subscribed delivery service via the likes of Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal and Deezer, and it's easy to see why. For want of an analogy subscribing to any of these services is like having your own music store and attendant on hand 24/7, with literally millions of tracks instantly available you can wallow in favourites old and new with the service constantly recommending new music - if you love music a subscription to one of these service is a must.
This just leaves hardware and playback - for this you have lots of options that leverage streaming solutions such as AirPlay, Bluetooth, Ethernet, Wi-Fi etc. You'll read lots of arguments from people who prefer one solution or another based on performance or budget, for me it boils down to one factor - user interface. You want simple, fast and reliable and whilst several brands offer something close to this the one that gets closest is Sonos. A very slick user interface that amalgamates your existing library and the best streaming services (including internet radio), added to this you can start with a small speaker and scale your system as you need (including Hi-Fi systems). About the only catch is the lack of support for high resolution audio but right now that's not really an issue for most of us. Best to check out Naim, Heos etc. as well as they have some persuasive options, but this type of hardware solution is ideal. I'm not a fan of AirPlay (especially from Smartphones), it's too fickle and gets interrupted when the phone rings - but it is cheap.
http://computers.tutsplus.com/tutorials/an-audioph...
However, whilst audiophiles will always advocate the above the music industry (video as well for that matter) is rapidly moving over to clouded, subscribed delivery service via the likes of Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal and Deezer, and it's easy to see why. For want of an analogy subscribing to any of these services is like having your own music store and attendant on hand 24/7, with literally millions of tracks instantly available you can wallow in favourites old and new with the service constantly recommending new music - if you love music a subscription to one of these service is a must.
This just leaves hardware and playback - for this you have lots of options that leverage streaming solutions such as AirPlay, Bluetooth, Ethernet, Wi-Fi etc. You'll read lots of arguments from people who prefer one solution or another based on performance or budget, for me it boils down to one factor - user interface. You want simple, fast and reliable and whilst several brands offer something close to this the one that gets closest is Sonos. A very slick user interface that amalgamates your existing library and the best streaming services (including internet radio), added to this you can start with a small speaker and scale your system as you need (including Hi-Fi systems). About the only catch is the lack of support for high resolution audio but right now that's not really an issue for most of us. Best to check out Naim, Heos etc. as well as they have some persuasive options, but this type of hardware solution is ideal. I'm not a fan of AirPlay (especially from Smartphones), it's too fickle and gets interrupted when the phone rings - but it is cheap.
A much, much cheaper option is a Chromecast Audio. Costs less than £40 and, presuming your existing good quality kit has a line-in, you can simply plug the Chromecast into it. Multi-room support is promised sometime in early 2016.
I asked for one for Christmas and, as with so much Google stuff, it's stupidly good for the money. There is no way I'd have sprung for Sonos kit as it's too damned pricey but it seems that this is the way to get pretty much all that Sonos offers for a tiny fraction of the price.
I asked for one for Christmas and, as with so much Google stuff, it's stupidly good for the money. There is no way I'd have sprung for Sonos kit as it's too damned pricey but it seems that this is the way to get pretty much all that Sonos offers for a tiny fraction of the price.
dmsims said:
The Squeezebox Touch is still the king for usability and features, no idea why they binned it
(and Sonous sounds s
te)
That's an awfully sweeping statement. Price for price, apples for apples etc. what sounds so much better than Sonos? Granted there are 'slightly' better speakers out there but that hardly makes Sonos's versions s(and Sonous sounds s
te)te. Plus, use a Connect with a decent DAC, FLAC audio rips and a good Hi-Fi and for the price it's remarkably good.Squeezebox was great but nowhere near as good as modern, App based streaming user interfaces, that's probably why it was dropped, a bit like Philips and their Pronto range of remote controls the investment needed to bring the system up to speed and match market expectations was simply too high. Logitech have many more eggs in their basket to risk pupping money into a niche product.
ASK1974 said:
That's an awfully sweeping statement. Price for price, apples for apples etc. what sounds so much better than Sonos? Granted there are 'slightly' better speakers out there but that hardly makes Sonos's versions ste. Plus, use a Connect with a decent DAC, FLAC audio rips and a good Hi-Fi and for the price it's remarkably good.
Squeezebox was great but nowhere near as good as modern, App based streaming user interfaces, that's probably why it was dropped, a bit like Philips and their Pronto range of remote controls the investment needed to bring the system up to speed and match market expectations was simply too high. Logitech have many more eggs in their basket to risk pupping money into a niche product.
No Sonos does sound ste. Plus, use a Connect with a decent DAC, FLAC audio rips and a good Hi-Fi and for the price it's remarkably good.Squeezebox was great but nowhere near as good as modern, App based streaming user interfaces, that's probably why it was dropped, a bit like Philips and their Pronto range of remote controls the investment needed to bring the system up to speed and match market expectations was simply too high. Logitech have many more eggs in their basket to risk pupping money into a niche product.
te - my kitchen "beater" system (HK630 and Keesonic Kubs) is actually listenable and cost a third less (allowing for the SBT)"slightly better" - should have gone to earsavers
How much is Sonos + connect + DAC?
You know the SBT does Spotify etc?
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