Back into Vinyl - New Setup a Little Disappointing

[FidoGoRetroGo]

Hi all.

At 53 years old I felt the urge to enjoy vinyl records again, and it's good to see a bit of a resurgence in such a lovely format. So I set myself a budget of £500 for a turntable, amp, speakers, stands and speaker cable.

Not a massive amount of money in Hi-Fi terms I grant you.

So I bought the following from Richer Sounds (Having told the salesman my budget):

Denon DP300 Turntable
Cambridge Audio Topaz AM5 Amp
Mordaunt Short M20 Speakers
Soundstyle Z2 Speaker Stands
Cambridge Audio Ultra Micro Speaker Cable (Speakers are on 1.5m and 2.5m lengths)

In a nutshell, I'm not too impressed with the sound. It's OK, but I expected more. I'm no audiophile and not about to spend thousands, but what I'm hearing sounds really rather undefined. I have the brand new ELO "Mr Blue Sky" compilation but it's just not doing it for me. What I hear is just a mass of sound rather than subtlety and finesse. It all sounds very "mid-range" too but if I adjust bass and/or treble on the amp things change but don't improve.

My feeling is that I'm perhaps expecting a little too much from a budget system. Whilst I'm in a period where I can return items to Richer Sounds I'd be interested in the opinion of the experts on here as to whether what I should bite the bullet and buy higher grade equipment throughout, or is there perhaps one glaringly weak point in what I have?

I did do some research in advance and all of those components seem to be reasonably well regarded, and the salesman in Richer Sounds suggested exactly what I thought he would.

I'd be happy to increase the budget to £750, but equally I'm well aware that throwing money at something isn't always the way to go.

Many thanks for any assistance

[Monty Python]

My advice would be to go to a dealer that has a demonstration room and listen to more expensive systems so you can hear what is possible.

[jmorgan]

Noticed a good difference when I put my speakers on spikes. Pre existing shelves needed to be moved for the extra height so it only took me 8 years...... actually a glorious difference.

Can't help with the rest.

But I have a big selection of vinyl, any other records just in case it is a naff recording? Took mine into the shops listening room when I went to buy my turntable etc.

[FidoGoRetroGo]

Yes I have a few other albums (though nothing else brand new yet).

Richer Sounds in Exeter do have a listening room so I might well call back in very soon and have a chat.

Thanks.

[gregs656]

I'd definitely try your other albums. Have you got another source you can plug in to test the system sans turntable?

[alock]

FidoGoRetroGo said:

My feeling is that I'm perhaps expecting a little too much from a budget system.

My opinion is that once you are spending about £200 per component then changes to the room are probably the next upgrade before more expensive components?
Are the speakers placed so that standing waves could be cancelling each other out?
Do you have a wooden floor?
Do you have large windows without curtains?

[Le TVR]

What cartridge did they give you with the turntable?
Are you using the built in phono preamp in the deck?

[FunkyGibbon]

Have you checked the speakers are connected in phase?

[telecat]

Having had a look at reviews the Cartridge is a weak Point. One review recommends a Shure M97xE to replace it. Personally ir could be seen as a little expensive. The Audio Technica AT series might be cheaper and give you a better sound. You can also Obtain Grado and Goldring cartridges under £100 that may be a better bet.

[blueg33]

I would be looing at what the turntable is sitting on, mine is on a stand that has spiked feet that go through the carpet to the concrete floor below.

As other have said also look at speaker placement. Following years of cd's and ipods people seem to have forgotten how to set up a hifi.

I am not familiar with Denon turntables, but its not a name I would go for.

A budget system should mostly be fine, you need the best speakers you can afford IMO. I am running a 25 year old budget NAD amp, Dual turntable and JPW speakers of a similar vintage and it all sounds pretty good.

My son has a Marantz amp, a Project Debut 2 SE turntable, and mission speakers his system is only 2 years old, sounds great. Total cost was under £1k.

[markiii]

its easier to get a "good" sounding system wt CD than Vinyl.

Viny requires more patience and more expense, first 3 things

get a decent cartridge, AT A130E is a great place to start
Make sure you have teh turntable setup correctly
inbuilt Phono Stage is likely not that great

[thebraketester]

I wouldnt spent 100 quid on a turntable and expect it to sound anything other than average.

Something like this would be better IMO, if you are on a budget

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-SL-DL1-Turntabl...

[blueg33]

Don't skimp on the turntable or cartridge. Don't forget the its these two things that turn little zigzags into electrical impulses that become your music when amplified

Cheap turntables usually have a crappy phono stage

But if budget is really tight, look at these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-Ject-Essential-2-Tur...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-Ject-Essential-II-Tu...

Richer sounds stock project stuff

Edited by blueg33 on Friday 23 December 11:41

[Le TVR]

FunkyGibbon said:

Have you checked the speakers are connected in phase?

Would be a good start!

[74merc]

Does the tonearm have an adjustable counterweight and is it adjusted correctly?
I recently dug out my Rega Planar 2, Arcam Alpha + amp and AE109 speakers. It did sound amazing until the amp gave up after 29 years of service.
I think the main reason it sounds so good is that I bought it from a proper hi-fi shop and demo'd everything until I was happy.

[Le TVR]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

The only problem with that cable is that it is virtually impossible to see which side is + and which is - and the reported symptoms sound like out of phase speakers.

[ian996]

Le TVR said:

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

The only problem with that cable is that it is virtually impossible to see which side is + and which is - and the reported symptoms sound like out of phase speakers.

+ 1 to out-of-phase speaker suggestion.

Other than that, I'd have opted for an entry-level Project or Rega Turntable over the Denon and a cartridge upgrade is always a good idea on entry-level kit but, if it really sounds bad, I think dodgy speaker wiring is a pretty good call.

[Sparky137]

thebraketester said:

I wouldnt spent 100 quid on a turntable and expect it to sound anything other than average.

Something like this would be better IMO, if you are on a budget

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-SL-DL1-Turntabl...

I have one of those (bought new in 1979) and can only say that its performance is, at best, mediocre. Amongst the other cheap turntables I have are a Dual CS505 Mk3 and a Pioneer PL112D. Both absolutely annihilate the SL-DL1.

[FidoGoRetroGo]

Hi all.

Thanks for so many replies!

Just got in from a trip to Bath so I shall read and reply.

Much appreciated.

[FidoGoRetroGo]

Le TVR said:

Would be a good start!

Yes! - Why they make cable that's so hard to tell is beyond me, but yes the speakers are in phase.