Amplifier pinging on switch on

[crankedup]

My newly acquired rotel ra 1062 works as it should, however when I switch it on a electrical ping noise occurs and then within a micro second a second slightly louder ping. Both these noises last for a part of a second only and all works fine then on.
My previous amp produced a sonic ‘thump’ through the speakers when switched on, less so after a full service was carried out.
Should I be concerned regarding the ping on the rotel?
Thank you

Edited by crankedup on Sunday 28th January 16:00

[AdeTuono]

No.

[Digger]

Cant resist sorry.


https://youtu.be/wshyX6Hw52I

[Crackie]

crankedup said:

My newly acquired rotel ra 1062 works as it should, however when I switch it on a electrical ping noise occurs and then within a micro second a second slightly louder ping. Both these noises last for a part of a second only and all works fine then on.
My previous amp produced a sonic when switched on, less so after a full service was carried out.
Should I be concerned regarding the ping on the rotel?
Thank you

I believe there are two relays on the 1062 ( one for the power amp output stage and one for the input pre stage )

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/310815-...

Have a look at the bass cones on your speakers when you turn the amp on and when the ping happens ; if the cones jump then you may have some DC on the speaker outputs. The cones should not move in or out noticeably.

Edited by Crackie on Sunday 28th January 20:58

[crankedup]

Digger said:

Cant resist sorry.


https://youtu.be/wshyX6Hw52I

[crankedup]

Crackie said:

crankedup said:

My newly acquired rotel ra 1062 works as it should, however when I switch it on a electrical ping noise occurs and then within a micro second a second slightly louder ping. Both these noises last for a part of a second only and all works fine then on.
My previous amp produced a sonic when switched on, less so after a full service was carried out.
Should I be concerned regarding the ping on the rotel?
Thank you

I believe there are two relays on the 1062 ( one for the power amp output stage and one for the input pre stage )

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/310815-...

Have a look at the bass ones on your speakers when you turn the amp on and when the ping happens ; if the cones jump then you may have some DC on the speaker outputs. The cones should not move in or out noticeably.

Thanks cracki, no movement of cones when switched on. Also I think the noises are more ‘click click’ than ‘ping ping’ ! Just me over worrying and from the links and info in here it’s likely the relays switching.

[VEX]

There is a hifi theory that good quality amps should never actually be turned off, then things stay warm and the sound uniformed when used.

Not sure if you like that idea, or if you want the halfway house of standby, if you have the option.

Maybe speak to Rotel on Monday and see what they say, or your dealer.

V.

Edited by VEX on Sunday 28th January 18:48

[crankedup]

VEX said:

There is a hifi theory that good quality amps should never actually be turned off, then things stay warm and the sound uniformed when used.

Not sure if you like that idea, or if you want the halfway house of standby, if you have the option.

Maybe speak to Rotel on Monday and see what they say, or your dealer.

V.

Edited by VEX on Sunday 28th January 18:48

Could never leave any electrical item switched on permanently, other half would
show me the rolling pin when the levy bill arrived

[varsas]

Sounds like a relay clicking to me, most do it.

[TonyRPH]

crankedup said:

VEX said:

There is a hifi theory that good quality amps should never actually be turned off, then things stay warm and the sound uniformed when used.

Not sure if you like that idea, or if you want the halfway house of standby, if you have the option.

Maybe speak to Rotel on Monday and see what they say, or your dealer.

V.

Edited by VEX on Sunday 28th January 18:48

Could never leave any electrical item switched on permanently, other half would
show me the rolling pin when the levy bill arrived

The idling power consumption (NOTE: not standby) of that amp is probably around 1 or 2 watts at most - the 300w cited in the manual is the worst case power consumption at maximum output.

The Rotel amps tend to have quite a low bias current.

Also - leaving amps on (or in standby) harks back to valve days when it was recommended to keep the heaters on but turn the HT supply off to increase the longevity of the valves (the constant thermal cycling was the issue here).

Of all the various transistor amps I've had, leaving them on or switching them between usage didn't make a shred of difference.

In fact, when I read reviews where the reviewer writes things like "one it had warmed up the sound mellowed.. blah blah" load of nonsense - a properly designed amplifier (and pre amplifier) will reach optimum state of operation within seconds of power on.

[crankedup]

TonyRPH said:

crankedup said:

VEX said:

There is a hifi theory that good quality amps should never actually be turned off, then things stay warm and the sound uniformed when used.

Not sure if you like that idea, or if you want the halfway house of standby, if you have the option.

Maybe speak to Rotel on Monday and see what they say, or your dealer.

V.

Edited by VEX on Sunday 28th January 18:48

Could never leave any electrical item switched on permanently, other half would
show me the rolling pin when the levy bill arrived

The idling power consumption (NOTE: not standby) of that amp is probably around 1 or 2 watts at most - the 300w cited in the manual is the worst case power consumption at maximum output.

The Rotel amps tend to have quite a low bias current.

Also - leaving amps on (or in standby) harks back to valve days when it was recommended to keep the heaters on but turn the HT supply off to increase the longevity of the valves (the constant thermal cycling was the issue here).

Of all the various transistor amps I've had, leaving them on or switching them between usage didn't make a shred of difference.

In fact, when I read reviews where the reviewer writes things like "one it had warmed up the sound mellowed.. blah blah" load of nonsense - a properly designed amplifier (and pre amplifier) will reach optimum state of operation within seconds of power on.

And that is good enough for me!
Whilst talking warm up of equipment, I have read about loudspeaker cones are at thier best once warmed up?

[TonyRPH]

crankedup said:

And that is good enough for me!
Whilst talking warm up of equipment, I have read about loudspeaker cones are at thier best once warmed up?

You want to stop reading about crap like that and just start enjoying the music.

Trust me, you'll get much more enjoyment out of your system that way.

[crankedup]

TonyRPH said:

crankedup said:

And that is good enough for me!
Whilst talking warm up of equipment, I have read about loudspeaker cones are at thier best once warmed up?

You want to stop reading about crap like that and just start enjoying the music.

Trust me, you'll get much more enjoyment out of your system that way.

Well yes, it’s just a passing curiosity tbh and just taking the opportunity t ask the question.
Dig out my old Moody Blues album of greatest hits today, glorious.

[Crackie]

TonyRPH said:

crankedup said:

And that is good enough for me!
Whilst talking warm up of equipment, I have read about loudspeaker cones are at thier best once warmed up?

You want to stop reading about crap like that and just start enjoying the music.

Trust me, you'll get much more enjoyment out of your system that way.

I agree about just enjoying the music......but the speaker cone temperature question is debateable. Speaker cone materials change their properties with temperature; the temp change may be the ambient background conditions in the room or heat soak from the driver voicecoils. A polymer speaker in particular has different mechanical damping properties at the cone neck ( drive point ) when cold relative to when it is hot.
Tweeters with ferrofluid in the voicecoil gap measure and sound different when warm; the viscosity of the fluid changes with temperature.

[TonyRPH]

Crackie said:

stuff

@crackie - yes I agree - but any audible differences are only likely to be noticeable when playing for prolonged periods at high powers, unless of course the speakers are incredibly under rated!

I have pushed my old Paradigm Monitor 7's (I think these are polymer coned) and pushing them beyond their rated power only resulted in noticeable compression effects.

I've no doubt other distortions came into play, however the SPL was that high that my ears were in submission anyway.

The monitor 7 is a 4 ohm speaker rated at 120W RMS and was being driven by a NAD 2200 which will happily drive around 200W RMS into 4 ohm loads...

All this in a relatively small room 13ft x 12ft so you can imagine how loud it was...

[Crackie]

TonyRPH said:

@crackie - yes I agree - but any audible differences are only likely to be noticeable when playing for prolonged periods at high powers, unless of course the speakers are incredibly under rated!

I have pushed my old Paradigm Monitor 7's (I think these are polymer coned) and pushing them beyond their rated power only resulted in noticeable compression effects.

I've no doubt other distortions came into play, however the SPL was that high that my ears were in submission anyway.

The monitor 7 is a 4 ohm speaker rated at 120W RMS and was being driven by a NAD 2200 which will happily drive around 200W RMS into 4 ohm loads...

All this in a relatively small room 13ft x 12ft so you can imagine how loud it was...

Probably a topic for a different thread Tony. I agree that audible effects on bass/mid drivers are very small. The effects of ferrofluid viscosity on tweeters can be significant though; I've measured 6db differences, due to temperature, under extreme conditions when manufacturing model RTL-2 and RTL-3 for TDL back in the mid 1990s. The tweeters in question had been stored near an outside wall in a warehouse when outside temps had dropped below zero, the ferrofluid in the coil gap was like glue; production work had to stop until the tweeter's magnets had stabilised at a reasonable ambient temperature in the assembly area.

Edited by Crackie on Wednesday 31st January 18:48

[TonyRPH]

Crackie said:

Probably a topic for a different thread Tony.

Apologies to crankedup for taking your thread off topic

Crackie said:

I agree that audible effects on bass/mid drivers are very small. The effects of ferrofluid viscosity on tweeters can be significant though; I've measured 6db differences, due to temperature, under extreme conditions when manufacturing model RTL-2 and RTL-3 for TDL back in the mid 1990s. The tweeters in question had been stored near an outside wall in a warehouse when outside temps had dropped below zero, the ferrofluid in the coil gap was like glue; production work had to stop until the tweeter's magnets had stabilised at a reasonable ambient temperature in the assembly area.

Interesting that you mention that, as there is a paragraph about temperature and ferro fluid in the Paradigm manual!

[crankedup]

No problem at all, especially as my question has been answered. Anyhow, pinging amplifier hasn’t the same level of technicality or interest as your discussion area!

[Crackie]

These links might be of interest Crankedup

http://www.audioreview.com/product/amplification/i...

http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/rotel...

[crankedup]

Thank you, indeed interesting reads.