Fixed acoustically transparent screens
Discussion
Can anyone recommend a fixed acoustically transparent screen for a projector? I'm planning an install at the moment for a screen about 3m wide and the installer is suggesting a screen that costs £4000+VAT, which seems like an absolute pisstake for a bit of cloth in a frame.
Looking on web suggests Beamax at around £1500 for a screen this size which still seems like a lot. Anyone got any specific recommendations? Room is a basement 6m x 4m. Planning on having in-walls for front 3 speakers behind screen.
Looking on web suggests Beamax at around £1500 for a screen this size which still seems like a lot. Anyone got any specific recommendations? Room is a basement 6m x 4m. Planning on having in-walls for front 3 speakers behind screen.
There will be a fair bit of difference in the fabric used and also the quality of the frame etc. For one that big you would be on quite a chunky frame.
I know you didn't ask the question but assuming the screen is a decent brand the price doesn't look too bad. I assume you are putting in a decent projector to light a screen that size properly? The cost of the projector must be small compared to the projector?
I know you didn't ask the question but assuming the screen is a decent brand the price doesn't look too bad. I assume you are putting in a decent projector to light a screen that size properly? The cost of the projector must be small compared to the projector?
Cheers all. Installer is suggesting a Screen Excellence Ref.
Re the projector: I am re-using a JVC iDLA X7500 that I bought this time last year for my current install. Was about £7500 at the time, though it's a lot less now (but ever 'twas it thus). Another house purchase completed last month so I'm configuring the room there as once you have the big screen experience, there's no going back. The X7500 does faux-4K via a half-pixel frame shift. I don't have any 4K sources and on viewing I felt that the JVC projector gave a better picture with the HD and DVD sources I have than a 4K screen.
Old system was a 2.4m screen with 7.2.4 XTZ Cinema series audio, which was a pretty spectacular performance. New room is better in some ways (subterra, wider screen - going for 2.35:1) but worse in others (smaller, can only really do 5.1.2, and have to go for in-wall speakers not wall mounted).
Re the projector: I am re-using a JVC iDLA X7500 that I bought this time last year for my current install. Was about £7500 at the time, though it's a lot less now (but ever 'twas it thus). Another house purchase completed last month so I'm configuring the room there as once you have the big screen experience, there's no going back. The X7500 does faux-4K via a half-pixel frame shift. I don't have any 4K sources and on viewing I felt that the JVC projector gave a better picture with the HD and DVD sources I have than a 4K screen.
Old system was a 2.4m screen with 7.2.4 XTZ Cinema series audio, which was a pretty spectacular performance. New room is better in some ways (subterra, wider screen - going for 2.35:1) but worse in others (smaller, can only really do 5.1.2, and have to go for in-wall speakers not wall mounted).
Edited by PhilboSE on Thursday 29th March 16:46
PhilboSE said:
Cheers all. Installer is suggesting a Screen Excellence Ref.
That is what we would have specified too and pricing seems about right to me.Go 4K on the projector! You wont regret it. We pretty much just install Sony at the moment and they are awesome.
Edited to add - why not start a build thread? It sounds great and it would be good to see some before and after stuff. We (PH) might even be able to help design it for you - as you already have an installer all the advice should also be unbiased!
Edited by NorthDave on Thursday 29th March 18:14
Just saw this thread: I was going to buy a drop down custom made Seymour XD screen 3 metres wide 2.40:1 aspect ratio and was quoted around £3k. I had a rethink and instead built a fixed timber frame as I saw a brand new boxed roll of XD material for sale on AVForums. It meant I had to put my TV on an electric lift, so the TV moves rather than the screen, but it works well.
In my research I came across a white paper measuring various screens including a section for acoustically transparent and there was quite a variation in the actual measured gain and frequency response of the speakers when placed behind the screen. The XD material came out as one of the highest actual measured gain AT screens, though it requires you to sit at over 10' away to avoid being able to see the weave (which is fine in my case). However the JVC X500 I had at the time still struggled to light this screen up, so I ended up replacing it with an X7500. I've found this does light it up much better at least for SDR content, though I'm still experimenting with HDR content processed via a newly bought Lumagen. If I ever want to change to a finer weave, such as Seymour's Enlighter variant it would have less gain, so I might be back to my previous situation with not enough light output from the projector.
In short, yes they aren't cheap but they aren't all equal in terms of gain and/or frequency response and have to be considered in parallel with the projector they will be used with.
In my research I came across a white paper measuring various screens including a section for acoustically transparent and there was quite a variation in the actual measured gain and frequency response of the speakers when placed behind the screen. The XD material came out as one of the highest actual measured gain AT screens, though it requires you to sit at over 10' away to avoid being able to see the weave (which is fine in my case). However the JVC X500 I had at the time still struggled to light this screen up, so I ended up replacing it with an X7500. I've found this does light it up much better at least for SDR content, though I'm still experimenting with HDR content processed via a newly bought Lumagen. If I ever want to change to a finer weave, such as Seymour's Enlighter variant it would have less gain, so I might be back to my previous situation with not enough light output from the projector.
In short, yes they aren't cheap but they aren't all equal in terms of gain and/or frequency response and have to be considered in parallel with the projector they will be used with.
Thanks for feedback everyone. Having got over the initial shock of the price I've done some reading and it does seem that for the best performance I might need to stump up. I'll be pleased if the X7500 is a better match for this size of screen as I had to originally justify the step up in price from the X5000.
Next decision will be the in-wall speakers...
Next decision will be the in-wall speakers...
Those might be a bit deep unfortunately - I've got an inconveniently placed doorway which means that building out the end wall is constrained.
Installer is recommending Artcoustic Spitfire but they're pretty punchy on price (£5000 for LCR). Paradigm LP XL or LP2 are in the frame on price and depth requirements.
Any other suggestions welcomed...
Installer is recommending Artcoustic Spitfire but they're pretty punchy on price (£5000 for LCR). Paradigm LP XL or LP2 are in the frame on price and depth requirements.
Any other suggestions welcomed...
PhilboSE said:
Those might be a bit deep unfortunately - I've got an inconveniently placed doorway which means that building out the end wall is constrained.
Installer is recommending Artcoustic Spitfire but they're pretty punchy on price (£5000 for LCR). Paradigm LP XL or LP2 are in the frame on price and depth requirements.
Any other suggestions welcomed...
What amplifier are you using? I’m not a massive fan of Artcoustic, but if the budget is already being blown elsewhere then they go loud and clear with very modest amplification. We use them when space is an issue, or the client likes the aesthetics.Installer is recommending Artcoustic Spitfire but they're pretty punchy on price (£5000 for LCR). Paradigm LP XL or LP2 are in the frame on price and depth requirements.
Any other suggestions welcomed...
Quite a few of the Triads would sit around or below that price and are generally less than 150mm deep, but are harder to drive than Artcoustic.
PhilboSE said:
Those might be a bit deep unfortunately - I've got an inconveniently placed doorway which means that building out the end wall is constrained.
Installer is recommending Artcoustic Spitfire but they're pretty punchy on price (£5000 for LCR). Paradigm LP XL or LP2 are in the frame on price and depth requirements.
Any other suggestions welcomed...
I'm now wondering if I am talking to someone we have quoted Installer is recommending Artcoustic Spitfire but they're pretty punchy on price (£5000 for LCR). Paradigm LP XL or LP2 are in the frame on price and depth requirements.
Any other suggestions welcomed...
Artcoustic is good stuff for home cinema if designed, installed and calibrated properly.
JimexPL said:
What amplifier are you using? I’m not a massive fan of Artcoustic, but if the budget is already being blown elsewhere then they go loud and clear with very modest amplification. We use them when space is an issue, or the client likes the aesthetics.
Quite a few of the Triads would sit around or below that price and are generally less than 150mm deep, but are harder to drive than Artcoustic.
Currently using an Arcam AVR390 supplemented by a Rotel power amp for the 4 Atmos speakers. The new room probably can't do 7.1.4 due to configuration, it will be 5.1.2 or 7.1.2 at a pinch so the Arcam can drive that solo. I will take a look at the Triads - do you think the AVR390 has got the chops to drive them?Quite a few of the Triads would sit around or below that price and are generally less than 150mm deep, but are harder to drive than Artcoustic.
NorthDave said:
I'm now wondering if I am talking to someone we have quoted
Artcoustic is good stuff for home cinema if designed, installed and calibrated properly.
I'm in Surrey so unless you have a branch darn sarf I'm probably using someone else like-minded! I have no doubt it will be installed optimally but I'm just baulking at the cost given what we achieved last year for about a quarter of the price, for a generally similar sized room. Unfortunately I just can't re-use my XTZ Cinema series in the new room due to the layout.Artcoustic is good stuff for home cinema if designed, installed and calibrated properly.
PhilboSE said:
Currently using an Arcam AVR390 supplemented by a Rotel power amp for the 4 Atmos speakers. The new room probably can't do 7.1.4 due to configuration, it will be 5.1.2 or 7.1.2 at a pinch so the Arcam can drive that solo. I will take a look at the Triads - do you think the AVR390 has got the chops to drive them?
Me again...I too run an AVR390, but with an Arcam P7 powering all but one pair of height speakers. I wouldn't expect a '390 to run 5.1.2 on it's own at any kind of decent level though: I had a channel down on my P7 for a while so I ran my surrounds and the pair of front heights from the 390 and the LCR & rear heights from 5 channels on the P7. However the 390 would go into protection mode and shut down on ocassion. This was only powering 4 speakers (admittedly 4ohms, but reasonably efficient MK150 series).There was a particular scene that I found, so was able to repeat it with different settings, such as a higher crossover and even changing the sensitivity in a 'hidden' menu but I wasn't happy that the sensistivity setting needed to be changed to stop the shut down, so I just got round to replacing a faulty relay in the P7 so I could reduce the load on the '390.
In short, I'd keep the Rotel and perhaps consider getting a 7 channel amp to run the LCR, surrounds and one pair of heights like I do unless you listen at very low levels.
OldSkoolRS said:
Me again...I too run an AVR390, but with an Arcam P7 powering all but one pair of height speakers. I wouldn't expect a '390 to run 5.1.2 on it's own at any kind of decent level though: I had a channel down on my P7 for a while so I ran my surrounds and the pair of front heights from the 390 and the LCR & rear heights from 5 channels on the P7. However the 390 would go into protection mode and shut down on ocassion. This was only powering 4 speakers (admittedly 4ohms, but reasonably efficient MK150 series).
There was a particular scene that I found, so was able to repeat it with different settings, such as a higher crossover and even changing the sensitivity in a 'hidden' menu but I wasn't happy that the sensistivity setting needed to be changed to stop the shut down, so I just got round to replacing a faulty relay in the P7 so I could reduce the load on the '390.
In short, I'd keep the Rotel and perhaps consider getting a 7 channel amp to run the LCR, surrounds and one pair of heights like I do unless you listen at very low levels.
Thanks - interesting feedback. I may well keep the Rotel for the surround channels and keep the Arcam driving the LCR. Current the AVR390 has no problems driving 5+2 though with 8 ohm speakers.There was a particular scene that I found, so was able to repeat it with different settings, such as a higher crossover and even changing the sensitivity in a 'hidden' menu but I wasn't happy that the sensistivity setting needed to be changed to stop the shut down, so I just got round to replacing a faulty relay in the P7 so I could reduce the load on the '390.
In short, I'd keep the Rotel and perhaps consider getting a 7 channel amp to run the LCR, surrounds and one pair of heights like I do unless you listen at very low levels.
For those interested - here are the room layouts and some pictures. The room is 5m x 3.3m and we need to maintain a channel for access to another room, so it's all a bit constrained. We have an existing L-shaped sofa which we plan on re-using. The cupboards on the right of the room are going which will open it up somewhat.
I'm happy to create a build thread or update this one if there is any interest.
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