Help a newb! Speakers and Amps

[AmosMoses]

Hi There,

I'm a massive gadgets nerd but have never really gone down the higher end audio path.

I have some Harman Kardon Soundsticks which i adore, but i'm looking to get into a Valve Tube Amp and some speakers.

Question I have is that if my amp can put out say 25w per speaker do i need 25w speakers? I guess the answer is yes but wanted to know if say a pair of 50w speakers would work but i guess they wouldn't work as well or as loud?

Thanks

Alex

[NDA]

AmosMoses said:

Hi There,

I'm a massive gadgets nerd but have never really gone down the higher end audio path.

I have some Harman Kardon Soundsticks which i adore, but i'm looking to get into a Valve Tube Amp and some speakers.

Question I have is that if my amp can put out say 25w per speaker do i need 25w speakers? I guess the answer is yes but wanted to know if say a pair of 50w speakers would work but i guess they wouldn't work as well or as loud?

Thanks

Alex

Valve amps, by and large, are a feature of high end hifi equipment - quite specialist. They are also (again, being a generalist) quite low outputs and a warmer, less forward sound.

Much will depend on your budget. But I would have thought a decent integrated amp (non valve) would be the route.

In terms of matching outputs to speakers, I have always leaned towards having a slightly greater power than my speakers are rated for. For example a 100 watt amp with 60 watt speakers being a reasonable example. You would not want to run the speakers to distortion - but it's a bit like a 200mph supercar being very comfortable at 70mph.

What are you looking to spend?

[telecat]

With Valve Amplifiers you look at the efficiency rather than Wattage. A 90db or greater speaker places a Amp under less strain than an 89db. It means a 25watt per channel amp with 90db will sound louder than the same with a 89db speaker.

[ian996]

AmosMoses said:

Hi There,

Question I have is that if my amp can put out say 25w per speaker do i need 25w speakers? I guess the answer is yes but wanted to know if say a pair of 50w speakers would work but i guess they wouldn't work as well or as loud?

Thanks

Alex

You definitely need to look at speaker efficiency over and above speaker watt rating (which is an "advisory" thing, rather than having any real meaning). The following link will show you how many decibels you can theoretically achieve from a given amplifier output and speaker efficiency

https://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/calculators#am...


Basically speaking, an 89DB/W speaker will output 89DB from 1 watt of amplifier power - sounds like a lot of volume for your watt, but the amount of power needed for any additional watts rises very quickly.

Edited by ian996 on Monday 3rd September 17:22

[dhutch]

Or just get a second hand Cambridge Audio amp off ebay for £50-100 and be done with it.

Coupled with almost any speaker you will knocked the socks of the soundsticks without trying.
You have not mentioned anything at all about budget/requirements but the Whalfdales 9.1 are still made an a classic staple new or used.

I am sure others will have a huge a mount more to say, but without more info on what you want out of it we cant really advise.


Daniel

[AmosMoses]

Thanks for the input all, the reason for a tube amp is simple i love the way they look budget is around £300.

[hornmeister]

In that case get some empty jam jars and tea lights and hide a decent amplifier in a cupboard.

Edited by hornmeister on Tuesday 4th September 08:40

[telecat]

Budget is a Bit small. A low end Audio Innovations like the 200 or 300 would be in range but the output is 10-12 watts so 90db speakers would be essential. Otherwise its one of the Icon Audio amps second hand might be available. Generally the Audio Innovations 500 is a good starter amp but they are usually £500 and rising these days.

Whatever happens don't forget Unless you drop it from an office block or leave it under a truck they are pretty repairable.

[P700DEE]

£300!!! Not a huge budget. If you visit the bay there are numerous Chinese valve amps available in the £200-300 range, I doubt you could buy any decent vintage (UK) stuff at that range. Valve amps are usually class A and lower powered, the good news is that a valve watt often seems louder than a transistor watt. Ignore wattage for matching speakers, it is efficiency that makes all the difference. I have heard loud systems with just 1-2 watt but this was with super efficient horn speakers (104dB per watt). You should look for efficient speakers i.e. more than 90dB per watt and they should work with most valve amps. Speakers usually specify a range for amplifiers e.g 25-150 watt. If your amp can't produce 25 watt you may not be able to get it to play as loud as you like and over driving the amp can produce distortion that will damage the speakers. Fortunately valve amps don't distort as much and the type of distortion is less damaging than other amps. If you had an amp that can produce 250 watt you might be able to blow up the speakers if someone just turns the volume up full at a party but this would in most cases be unpleasantly loud in a domestic environment. Go second hand for your speakers, good floor standers are usually available cheap locally if you can collect and these are usually more efficient than book shelf speakers. You can pick up TDL speakers for under £50

[ian996]

While I'm an admirer of valve amps, I'd agree that £300 is a bit of a low budget....you'd really be looking at nearer £1,000 before you could get something worthwhile which would demonstrate the strengths of valve amplification. (And have the power to drive similarly priced speakers).

Even second-hand, it would be a case of buyer beware. Icon Audio is a good suggestion but you'd be lucky to see one for £300., They are based on Chinese Meixing / Mingda amps, which sometimes come up for sale at lower prices than the equivalent Icon Audio model, but they have often been imported direct and have 220Volt transformers which can cause major hum issues with our 240 volt supply (standardised to Europe at 230volt? Yeah, right.) The same applies to other Chinese valve makes like Yaquin.

In the past, I have imported direct from China on a couple of occasions, but apart from the voltage issue, UK customs are now getting a bit over-zealous on import duties ( To combat under-declarations, they have a tendency to slap on an inflated value then get you to jump through hoops to "prove" the price you actually paid).

Much as it pains me to say it, at that budget, the solid-state amp plus tea-lights and jam jars might be the best option!

Edited by ian996 on Tuesday 4th September 15:51

Edited by ian996 on Tuesday 4th September 15:56

[selym]

Careful second hand purchases are the answer, but you would struggle to get a valve amp for that, let alone speakers on top. There are some speaker bargains about; one of which is the JPW AP3 but they are becoming few and far between and will no doubt need refoaming (which is not a terrible job).

I'd look elsewhere for your method of amplification personally; the look wears off but the feeling that it just doesn't sound right is constant.

[dhutch]

dhutch said:

Or just get a second hand Cambridge Audio amp off ebay for £50-100 and be done with it.

Coupled with... ....Whalfdales 9.1 are still made and a classic staple, also $50-100 new or used.

Indeed.

[dhutch]

I guess ultimately it depends if you want to best sound you can get for £300, or if you really want a tube amp regardless.

The mad thing is my dad gave away a pair of Quad II amps to a friend 30 years ago when I was a kid because he'd replaced them with a new power amp.


Daniel

[telecat]

Looking about I would say that for £300 you should be able to find a Fatman Valve Amplifier. I believe they still exist and the Amps did have a reasonable reputation.

[selym]

telecat said:

Looking about I would say that for £300 you should be able to find a Fatman Valve Amplifier. I believe they still exist and the Amps did have a reasonable reputation.

The lower end were a hybrid valve (buffer stage?) and solid state amplification; not sure if they were pure valve further up the range. That would suit the aesthetic though.

[AmosMoses]

Hi all,

Thanks for the input, think I'll be going with a dhutch's suggestion, i can then add a valve pre amp if i so want later down the line.

Delving deeper into the cheap valve amps they are all Chinese ste to be quite frank!

Any recommendations on the Cambridge Audio Amps? A Cambridge Audio Topaz AM5 seems to be a decent entry point?

Alex

Edited by AmosMoses on Wednesday 5th September 14:08

[dhutch]

AmosMoses said:

Any recommendations on the Cambridge Audio Amps?

All mine are a generation before the, A1 Mk3, A5, A500 (wanted a remote) and dads is an A70 power amp. All nice kit an understand the later stuff is also good but don't know specifics.

[selym]

AmosMoses said:

Hi all,

Thanks for the input, think I'll be going with a dhutch's suggestion, i can then add a valve pre amp if i so want later down the line.

Delving deeper into the cheap valve amps they are all Chinese ste to be quite frank!

Any recommendations on the Cambridge Audio Amps? A Cambridge Audio Topaz AM5 seems to be a decent entry point?

Alex

Edited by AmosMoses on Wednesday 5th September 14:08

Just to add further confusion, not all Chinese amps are ste.

[TonyRPH]

Unless you specifically require remote control, just about any 80's or 90's Japanese (transistor) amp will fit the bill.

Plenty on Ebay, you can choose from Sony, Denon, Pioneer etc..

Many of them are incredibly good value.

50w per channel is more than enough in a domestic setting, unless you have really inefficient speakers and expect eardrum bursting sound levels.

Plenty of good speakers too - but I too can recommend the Wharfedale 9.1's, now there's a speaker that sounds far more expensive that it's original purchase price would suggest.

[ian996]

selym said:

Just to add further confusion, not all Chinese amps are ste.

+1 to the above...probably a very wise move to go solid state with the current stated budget, but if you do ever decide to sink a bit more cash into the system, a Chinese amp from one of the recognised names should not be dismissed out of hand. They can provide excellent sound quality and surprisingly good build quality too. A local ebay buy where you can listen to the item is worth considering, and would very probably shock you (sound quality wise, hopefully not dodgy valve wiring wise).

As has been said earlier, when entry-level valve amps go wrong, they can usually be fixed pretty easily as they are mainly discrete components and wire, rather than ICs and complex circuit boards. (By a professional repairer....sticking a speculative screwdriver into a live valve circuit is not a good idea!)

"Listen without prejudice" is pretty solid advice in this instance, as prejudice is almost certainly what's behind those statements that are damning valve amps across the board.