John Lewis, Black Friday, which one to choose.
Discussion
Looking for a new TV probably a 43"
John Lewis currently show these in their sale:
https://www.johnlewis.com/browse/black-friday/elec...
Or is there a better option not in their sale:
https://www.johnlewis.com/browse/electricals/telev...
What are your thoughts please?
About the only decent 43" sets you can buy at the moment are Philps and Hisense as all the rest use IPS panels, which just look washed out.
Philips 43PUS7303 is a good set, but JL don't stock it.
Richer Sounds don't either, they do the 6700 model, but that loses Phlips superb P5 processor for image processing.
The other option is the Samsung 43NU7400, however, some of those have IPS panels and only some have the decent VA panels.
The back of the set says NU/01 if it is VA, but you need them to allow you to open the set to see.
Philips 43PUS7303 is a good set, but JL don't stock it.
Richer Sounds don't either, they do the 6700 model, but that loses Phlips superb P5 processor for image processing.
The other option is the Samsung 43NU7400, however, some of those have IPS panels and only some have the decent VA panels.
The back of the set says NU/01 if it is VA, but you need them to allow you to open the set to see.
I'm considering the Samsung 43NU7400 just waiting to see if we get a price drop. It's the only Samsung (at JL or Richer with the extended guarantees) that's a 10 bit panel with bluetooth as far as I can see.
Just a note about IPS vs VA as reports concerned me somewhat here and over on AVforums. I've done some research at it appears it is a bit of a lottery with this TV model which you get. IPS tend to have better wide viewing angles and response times but not as good for deep blacks or uniformity. VA is probably better for dark cinema rooms, IPS is probably better in a computer or gaming monitor situation where you'll sit close to the screen and hence have a wide viewing angle to the corners, or in my case as a second TV wall mounted in a games room where viewing will be in a light room at multiple angles. Whether the washed out characteristic of an IPS annoys will be a personal thing.
As such I wouldn't get too worried about the specs, but I'd certainly recommend a viewing in a showroom before purchase
Just a note about IPS vs VA as reports concerned me somewhat here and over on AVforums. I've done some research at it appears it is a bit of a lottery with this TV model which you get. IPS tend to have better wide viewing angles and response times but not as good for deep blacks or uniformity. VA is probably better for dark cinema rooms, IPS is probably better in a computer or gaming monitor situation where you'll sit close to the screen and hence have a wide viewing angle to the corners, or in my case as a second TV wall mounted in a games room where viewing will be in a light room at multiple angles. Whether the washed out characteristic of an IPS annoys will be a personal thing.
As such I wouldn't get too worried about the specs, but I'd certainly recommend a viewing in a showroom before purchase
Edited by hornmeister on Tuesday 20th November 09:42
hornmeister said:
VA is probably better for dark cinema rooms, IPS is probably better in a computer or gaming monitor situation where you'll sit close to the screen and hence have a wide viewing angle to the corners, or in my case as a second TV wall mounted in a games room where viewing will be in a light room at multiple angles. Whether the washed out characteristic of an IPS annoys will be a personal thing.
No it is more than that. IPS panels, without local dimming with direct backlight, just make the image look washed out, they have no proper depth to them.
I don't watch my TV with the lights out, in fact in my room I have 4 lamps, however, many of the VA panels don't go down low enough to give decent overall image, I have yet to come across an IPS panel that comes close.
I could tell the Samsung 7400 IPS was no go during the day.
The problem you have is, the nature of the panel means it lets more of the backlight through, the only way you can get the black not looking grey is to turn the backlight down, the issue is, even when you get it down to a level that means the picture is sort of bright enough, the backlight can still be seen in dark areas.
You say it is a personal thing, and yet you say "it is one of the only 10 bit panels".
That makes no sense at all to me, no point worrying about 8 bit vs 10 bit if you have bought an IPS panel TV.
Just having a quick look on google for IPS vs VA images.
This one shows it well..
The image just loses depth.
IPS is good for computer monitors, good for display boards, which is what it was invented for, but not for TVs unless it has some trick backlightling imho.
LCD TVs from 10 years ago have a better image.
This youtube video shows the differences well, it also has TN panel as well, but IPS on left and VA in the middle...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWqD1zb9tvc
That's an interesting comparison thank you.
I do actually prefer the lighter image, but I wouldn't use a web browser image as a decider on purchasing a telly. My understanidn of the 7400 is it does have local dimming which should counter act to a certain the washed out nature of an IPS panel (if indeed the model you get is IPS)
The thing with HDR is there's no real point having it if you've only got an 8-bit panel as whilst it'll handle an HDR image you won't get all the benefit. But like with the IPs vs VA panel debate if you're not feeding it an HDR signal or personally don't see or are not bothered by the difference why spend the money. It's why I'll always say actually rest drive a TV before its bought.
So you've put enough doubt in my mind on this TV. Samsung appears to be out and due to previous issues I've had with Sony so are they.
I need a 43"
10 bit
4K
preferably less than 10Kg and less than 8cm deep as I'm wall mounting and space is at a premium
Bluetooth is necessary as is DLNA & Wifi.
Does such a telly exist for £400 - £500 at either John Lewis or Richer sounds to get a decent guarantee.
Looks like I got to wander back to the shops again Boooo!
I do actually prefer the lighter image, but I wouldn't use a web browser image as a decider on purchasing a telly. My understanidn of the 7400 is it does have local dimming which should counter act to a certain the washed out nature of an IPS panel (if indeed the model you get is IPS)
The thing with HDR is there's no real point having it if you've only got an 8-bit panel as whilst it'll handle an HDR image you won't get all the benefit. But like with the IPs vs VA panel debate if you're not feeding it an HDR signal or personally don't see or are not bothered by the difference why spend the money. It's why I'll always say actually rest drive a TV before its bought.
So you've put enough doubt in my mind on this TV. Samsung appears to be out and due to previous issues I've had with Sony so are they.
I need a 43"
10 bit
4K
preferably less than 10Kg and less than 8cm deep as I'm wall mounting and space is at a premium
Bluetooth is necessary as is DLNA & Wifi.
Does such a telly exist for £400 - £500 at either John Lewis or Richer sounds to get a decent guarantee.
Looks like I got to wander back to the shops again Boooo!
hornmeister said:
That's an interesting comparison thank you.
I do actually prefer the lighter image, but I wouldn't use a web browser image as a decider on purchasing a telly. My understanidn of the 7400 is it does have local dimming which should counter act to a certain the washed out nature of an IPS panel (if indeed the model you get is IPS)
The thing with HDR is there's no real point having it if you've only got an 8-bit panel as whilst it'll handle an HDR image you won't get all the benefit. But like with the IPs vs VA panel debate if you're not feeding it an HDR signal or personally don't see or are not bothered by the difference why spend the money. It's why I'll always say actually rest drive a TV before its bought.
So you've put enough doubt in my mind on this TV. Samsung appears to be out and due to previous issues I've had with Sony so are they.
I need a 43"
10 bit
4K
preferably less than 10Kg and less than 8cm deep as I'm wall mounting and space is at a premium
Bluetooth is necessary as is DLNA & Wifi.
Does such a telly exist for £400 - £500 at either John Lewis or Richer sounds to get a decent guarantee.
Looks like I got to wander back to the shops again Boooo!
Sorry I disagree completely. I do actually prefer the lighter image, but I wouldn't use a web browser image as a decider on purchasing a telly. My understanidn of the 7400 is it does have local dimming which should counter act to a certain the washed out nature of an IPS panel (if indeed the model you get is IPS)
The thing with HDR is there's no real point having it if you've only got an 8-bit panel as whilst it'll handle an HDR image you won't get all the benefit. But like with the IPs vs VA panel debate if you're not feeding it an HDR signal or personally don't see or are not bothered by the difference why spend the money. It's why I'll always say actually rest drive a TV before its bought.
So you've put enough doubt in my mind on this TV. Samsung appears to be out and due to previous issues I've had with Sony so are they.
I need a 43"
10 bit
4K
preferably less than 10Kg and less than 8cm deep as I'm wall mounting and space is at a premium
Bluetooth is necessary as is DLNA & Wifi.
Does such a telly exist for £400 - £500 at either John Lewis or Richer sounds to get a decent guarantee.
Looks like I got to wander back to the shops again Boooo!
I have calibrated around 200 TVs over the last 15 years or so. I have yet seen an IPS panel that is any good.
There is no local dimming on that set, there is Samsungs zoned dimming, which is simply them adjusting the brightness, tone and sharpness to try and get it looking less washed out.
HDR on that set is hardly worth having IMHO the set only goes to 400nits, 4k on a 43" is almost pointless and banding, which is the main bonus of 10 bit panel shouldn't be an issue on a new panel anyway, my old Sony from 2010 or the 2010 B&O doesn't have banding issues.
I have had the set here, it is s
t. Go and buy an 8 year old Sony off gumtree for £50, it will be better. HDR is all about contrast ratio, the ability to do blacks properly is more important than the ability to go bright, hence the OLEDs always win the shootouts, 0 black and 600 nits looks better than 5 black and 1500 nits white.
It is how our brains work.
You are buying a TV that can only do around 20 black and 400 nits white, pointless.
The backlight is on full with HDR, it looks pants.
SDR looks better as you have some control and can turn it down, but by the time it is acceptable in dark scenes the image is really, really dull.
In VA form it is a good TV for £400, but not sure about the HDR, I preferred it in SDR playing the same stuff.
The IPS version really is pants.
gizlaroc said:
Isn't the 6753 and 7353 the AO.com versions?
I think they are the same, just different stand and dark silver bezel.
6753 is on Amazon for £329, ao.com for £349I think they are the same, just different stand and dark silver bezel.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-43PUS6753-12-Free...
Looks good.
At least with Amazon returns are pretty easy.
Normally with TVs the biggest issues is problems that are 'within' spec. I would rather have a year warranty from someone I can return it to than have 5 years where they can be a bit of a pain if you're not happy straight away.
At least with Amazon returns are pretty easy.
Normally with TVs the biggest issues is problems that are 'within' spec. I would rather have a year warranty from someone I can return it to than have 5 years where they can be a bit of a pain if you're not happy straight away.
gizlaroc said:
Sorry I disagree completely.
I have calibrated around 200 TVs over the last 15 years or so. I have yet seen an IPS panel that is any good.
There is no local dimming on that set, there is Samsungs zoned dimming, which is simply them adjusting the brightness, tone and sharpness to try and get it looking less washed out.
HDR on that set is hardly worth having IMHO the set only goes to 400nits, 4k on a 43" is almost pointless and banding, which is the main bonus of 10 bit panel shouldn't be an issue on a new panel anyway, my old Sony from 2010 or the 2010 B&O doesn't have banding issues.
I have had the set here, it is st. Go and buy an 8 year old Sony off gumtree for £50, it will be better.
HDR is all about contrast ratio, the ability to do blacks properly is more important than the ability to go bright, hence the OLEDs always win the shootouts, 0 black and 600 nits looks better than 5 black and 1500 nits white.
It is how our brains work.
You are buying a TV that can only do around 20 black and 400 nits white, pointless.
The backlight is on full with HDR, it looks pants.
SDR looks better as you have some control and can turn it down, but by the time it is acceptable in dark scenes the image is really, really dull.
In VA form it is a good TV for £400, but not sure about the HDR, I preferred it in SDR playing the same stuff.
The IPS version really is pants.
Fair dos I appreciate your expertise. I must have viewed a VA unit and as that can't be guaramteed I'll avoid.I have calibrated around 200 TVs over the last 15 years or so. I have yet seen an IPS panel that is any good.
There is no local dimming on that set, there is Samsungs zoned dimming, which is simply them adjusting the brightness, tone and sharpness to try and get it looking less washed out.
HDR on that set is hardly worth having IMHO the set only goes to 400nits, 4k on a 43" is almost pointless and banding, which is the main bonus of 10 bit panel shouldn't be an issue on a new panel anyway, my old Sony from 2010 or the 2010 B&O doesn't have banding issues.
I have had the set here, it is s
t. Go and buy an 8 year old Sony off gumtree for £50, it will be better. HDR is all about contrast ratio, the ability to do blacks properly is more important than the ability to go bright, hence the OLEDs always win the shootouts, 0 black and 600 nits looks better than 5 black and 1500 nits white.
It is how our brains work.
You are buying a TV that can only do around 20 black and 400 nits white, pointless.
The backlight is on full with HDR, it looks pants.
SDR looks better as you have some control and can turn it down, but by the time it is acceptable in dark scenes the image is really, really dull.
In VA form it is a good TV for £400, but not sure about the HDR, I preferred it in SDR playing the same stuff.
The IPS version really is pants.
I have a 60" KS7000 as my main TV and properly set up I've only seen OLED best it.
Looks like it's back to the drawing board for my games room.
Agree with this VA vs IPS stuff. I bought an LG UK6400 which is IPS. Even on max backlight it wasn’t bright enough, and the blacks were grey. Trying to rectify the grey blacks resulted in the panel being too dim. It also suffered from some weird HDCP handshake issue so I sent it back.
I bought a Samsung 49NU7100 which is VA and much better. You should be able to pick one of those up for £400?
I bought a Samsung 49NU7100 which is VA and much better. You should be able to pick one of those up for £400?
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