Cellar cinema room planning - Help!
Discussion
Hello all,
I'm after a few pointers and ideas before I start converting my cellar to a cinema room - I want to make sure all the cables are in the right place allowing for a bit of future proofing.
I've been accumulating AV stuff over the last couple of years - some of it is pretty old but will do initially:
Front LRC speakers - 3 x Monitor Audio Radius R250
Surrounds - 4 x Monitor Audio Bronze FX
In ceiling Atmos - 4 x Monitor Audio Radius
Sub - BK Monolith
Projector - Epson TW6100
AV Amp - Pioneer SC-LX57
Power amp 1 - Rotel RB-985mk2
Power amp 2 - Rotel RMB-1066
Ideally would like 4k but would need a new amp and projector. Having been kicking around the idea of an 85" 4k TV instead of a projector with around 100" screen. The TV would open up the room for other uses and wouldn't have to be a bat cave.
Pics of cellar as it currently is...…..
[pic]
Cellar - current by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
Cellar - current by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
Cellar - current by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
Cellar - current by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]
Current proposal...….
[pic]
Cinema room layout 1 by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
Cinema room layout 3 by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]
[pic]
Cinema room layout 2 by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]
The screen was either going to drop down from behind the beam near the window or on the wall opposite the window as shown the pic below. AV rack in one of the alcoves depending where the screen ends up. The sub was going to be built in behind some Acoustic Speaker Cloth, alternatively two off smaller subs either side of the screen. Sofa would be under the projector - not ideal from a noise point of view. One of the reasons why I'm considering a big TV.
Any comments or suggested much appreciated.
Do it once, do it right!;)
Thanks
I'm after a few pointers and ideas before I start converting my cellar to a cinema room - I want to make sure all the cables are in the right place allowing for a bit of future proofing.
I've been accumulating AV stuff over the last couple of years - some of it is pretty old but will do initially:
Front LRC speakers - 3 x Monitor Audio Radius R250
Surrounds - 4 x Monitor Audio Bronze FX
In ceiling Atmos - 4 x Monitor Audio Radius
Sub - BK Monolith
Projector - Epson TW6100
AV Amp - Pioneer SC-LX57
Power amp 1 - Rotel RB-985mk2
Power amp 2 - Rotel RMB-1066
Ideally would like 4k but would need a new amp and projector. Having been kicking around the idea of an 85" 4k TV instead of a projector with around 100" screen. The TV would open up the room for other uses and wouldn't have to be a bat cave.
Pics of cellar as it currently is...…..
[pic]
Cellar - current by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
Cellar - current by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
Cellar - current by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
Cellar - current by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]Current proposal...….
[pic]
Cinema room layout 1 by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
Cinema room layout 3 by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
Cinema room layout 2 by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]The screen was either going to drop down from behind the beam near the window or on the wall opposite the window as shown the pic below. AV rack in one of the alcoves depending where the screen ends up. The sub was going to be built in behind some Acoustic Speaker Cloth, alternatively two off smaller subs either side of the screen. Sofa would be under the projector - not ideal from a noise point of view. One of the reasons why I'm considering a big TV.
Any comments or suggested much appreciated.
Do it once, do it right!;)
Thanks
Two initial thoughts.
Don’t go for such a big tv unless you are gaming. With such a little difference between tv and screen/projector you could end up using the PJ less.
Move the sub position. It is likely to boom a bit if it is enclosed on 3 sides.
Happy to help with cable requirements if needed.
V.
Don’t go for such a big tv unless you are gaming. With such a little difference between tv and screen/projector you could end up using the PJ less.
Move the sub position. It is likely to boom a bit if it is enclosed on 3 sides.
Happy to help with cable requirements if needed.
V.
I think you'll end up with a great room there 
Irregular shapes and alcoves are good for breaking up standing waves but speaker placement in the room still has an enormous influence. There are tens if not hundreds of online calculators online which will work out which frequencies you'll have standing waves at............there are also a small number of speaker placement calculators rather than room mode calculators. These are the ones to use.
Use two smaller subs rather than one large one, don't place the subs in the room symmetrically and try to place the subs nearer to the listening position than the screen. Looking at the main speakers you're using you'll be crossing over to the sub at a reasonably low frequency, this is good because you won't be able to locate where the subs are in the room by ear. The advantage of the sub being close to the listener is that it can help mitigate some of the low frequency group delay inherent in all low frequency systems. In simple terms the bass will play in time rather than lag............that's a good thing, particularly if you're listening to music.
Here's a link to an online calculator but there are others..........some of which are simpler to use. Looks to me like you're planning to do things properly though. Good luck.
https://www.hunecke.de/en/calculators/loudspeakers...
Irregular shapes and alcoves are good for breaking up standing waves but speaker placement in the room still has an enormous influence. There are tens if not hundreds of online calculators online which will work out which frequencies you'll have standing waves at............there are also a small number of speaker placement calculators rather than room mode calculators. These are the ones to use.
Use two smaller subs rather than one large one, don't place the subs in the room symmetrically and try to place the subs nearer to the listening position than the screen. Looking at the main speakers you're using you'll be crossing over to the sub at a reasonably low frequency, this is good because you won't be able to locate where the subs are in the room by ear. The advantage of the sub being close to the listener is that it can help mitigate some of the low frequency group delay inherent in all low frequency systems. In simple terms the bass will play in time rather than lag............that's a good thing, particularly if you're listening to music.
Here's a link to an online calculator but there are others..........some of which are simpler to use. Looks to me like you're planning to do things properly though. Good luck.
https://www.hunecke.de/en/calculators/loudspeakers...
Edited by Crackie on Saturday 18th April 12:31
VEX said:
Two initial thoughts.
Don’t go for such a big tv unless you are gaming. With such a little difference between tv and screen/projector you could end up using the PJ less.
Move the sub position. It is likely to boom a bit if it is enclosed on 3 sides.
Happy to help with cable requirements if needed.
V.
Hi Vex,Don’t go for such a big tv unless you are gaming. With such a little difference between tv and screen/projector you could end up using the PJ less.
Move the sub position. It is likely to boom a bit if it is enclosed on 3 sides.
Happy to help with cable requirements if needed.
V.
I won't be going for a projector and TV - it'll be one or the other.
I do game quite a bit particularly COD so input lag is a consideration - another reason why I'm leaning towards a big TV.
Although the current sub is down firing and looking at swapping for forward firing - will I have the same boom issue?
I planning to put a couple of sub cables either side of the screen in case the current sub position sounds rubbish.
I've got a 100m reel of QED classic speaker cable I was planning to use unless you tell me otherwise! - I thought spending £££ on cables for an AV system wasn't that critical
Assuming I go for a big TV I'll need 10m long HDMI cables - 2off HDMI 2.1 to be on the safe side.
Any pointers?
Thanks
hyphen said:
Is Atmos actually taking off?
As seems to be a 'nice to have', as market for people willing to cut up their ceilings is small.
If so perhaps scrap Atmos, and spend that cash on adding to the 5.1 speakers/AV amp budget.
Agreed, it's a nice to have - I don't even have an amp that'll output Atmos yet! As seems to be a 'nice to have', as market for people willing to cut up their ceilings is small.
If so perhaps scrap Atmos, and spend that cash on adding to the 5.1 speakers/AV amp budget.
I picked up the speakers for £30 each and while I don't have a ceiling it seems the sensible thing to do just in case
[pic]
Untitled by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic][pic]
Untitled by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]peterperkins said:
Aren't cellars generally fairly cold damp places?
Why would you want to sit down there unless you're going to be mega insulating/heating it all first.
Surprising the temperature is pretty stable all year round - pleasantly cool. Why would you want to sit down there unless you're going to be mega insulating/heating it all first.
Yes, it will need some kind of tanking, only slight damp but no water - the exterior walls will be insulated and electric heating installed.
Crackie said:
I think you'll end up with a great room there
Irregular shapes and alcoves are good for breaking up standing waves but speaker placement in the room still has an enormous influence. There are tens if not hundreds of online calculators online which will work out which frequencies you'll have standing waves at............there are also a small number of speaker placement calculators rather than room mode calculators. These are the ones to use.
Use two smaller subs rather than one large one, don't place the subs in the room symmetrically and try to place the subs nearer to the listening position than the screen. Looking at the main speakers you're using you'll be crossing over to the sub at a reasonably low frequency, this is good because you won't be able to locate where the subs are in the room by ear. The advantage of the sub being close to the listener is that it can help mitigate some of the low frequency group delay inherent in all low frequency systems. In simple terms the bass will play in time rather than lag............that's a good thing, particularly if you're listening to music.
Here's a link to an online calculator but there are others..........some of which are simpler to use. Looks to me like you're planning to do things properly though. Good luck.
https://www.hunecke.de/en/calculators/loudspeakers...
Thanks for that.Irregular shapes and alcoves are good for breaking up standing waves but speaker placement in the room still has an enormous influence. There are tens if not hundreds of online calculators online which will work out which frequencies you'll have standing waves at............there are also a small number of speaker placement calculators rather than room mode calculators. These are the ones to use.
Use two smaller subs rather than one large one, don't place the subs in the room symmetrically and try to place the subs nearer to the listening position than the screen. Looking at the main speakers you're using you'll be crossing over to the sub at a reasonably low frequency, this is good because you won't be able to locate where the subs are in the room by ear. The advantage of the sub being close to the listener is that it can help mitigate some of the low frequency group delay inherent in all low frequency systems. In simple terms the bass will play in time rather than lag............that's a good thing, particularly if you're listening to music.
Here's a link to an online calculator but there are others..........some of which are simpler to use. Looks to me like you're planning to do things properly though. Good luck.
https://www.hunecke.de/en/calculators/loudspeakers...
Edited by Crackie on Saturday 18th April 12:31
I've had a play and I'm not sure if it's good, bad or to be expected
[pic]
speaker layout by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]The result doesn't change when I move the Sub around, the biggest influence seems to be the room height which is fixed.
Two smaller Subs at the front looks to be pretty much the same.
So, in this case am I right in saying that smaller sub will be better??
Cheers
Things for me that would need considering....and Vex or one of the other experts are probably best to advise, what are you going to do about lighting?
The reason I ask is because the screen will be opposite the only window so you'll require blackout blinds of some sort to stop light reflecting on the screen so may want to illuminate the room and not sit there in pitch black all the time. I guess just general lighting would work fine, but if you wanted the room to feel nice and have the right ambience, then decent lighting positions would help you control how much light you had in the room,
I have alcoves which my front floor standers sit in, so put some dimmable downlighters in there which gives a nice glow and enough light when dimmed to be able to find the remote
I don't think I'd be able to help myself and would have to have some LED rope lights going down the stairs on the way in. You can get stuff from amazon that comes with a sensor so that it comes on when you stand near it. Tacky? Hmm, probably, but I still wouldn't be able to help myself
The thing I like about the room is that as it's a cellar, you could easily get away with trunking all the way around the room or use the ceiling space so wouldn't have to hide cables in walls etc. My setup is in my living room so everything had to be integrated so have banana plug plates next to speaker positions so have no cables anywhere. I used HDMI over CAT6 instead of built in HDMI cables in walls.
Your room will be amazing when it's done. Oh, I have the BK Monolith (downward firing) and had a fair amount of success with positioning. I've 'hidden' it under a console table, put it next to the sofa behind the door boxing it in and it's sounded quite good especially for a ported box. These were only temporary positions while I sorted cabling out and would have made the likes of the guys here who know their stuff just refuse to even look at it due to the ridiculous positions its been in, but it genuinely did (by my ears) sound ok. Keep us updated on the build!
The reason I ask is because the screen will be opposite the only window so you'll require blackout blinds of some sort to stop light reflecting on the screen so may want to illuminate the room and not sit there in pitch black all the time. I guess just general lighting would work fine, but if you wanted the room to feel nice and have the right ambience, then decent lighting positions would help you control how much light you had in the room,
I have alcoves which my front floor standers sit in, so put some dimmable downlighters in there which gives a nice glow and enough light when dimmed to be able to find the remote
I don't think I'd be able to help myself and would have to have some LED rope lights going down the stairs on the way in. You can get stuff from amazon that comes with a sensor so that it comes on when you stand near it. Tacky? Hmm, probably, but I still wouldn't be able to help myself
The thing I like about the room is that as it's a cellar, you could easily get away with trunking all the way around the room or use the ceiling space so wouldn't have to hide cables in walls etc. My setup is in my living room so everything had to be integrated so have banana plug plates next to speaker positions so have no cables anywhere. I used HDMI over CAT6 instead of built in HDMI cables in walls.
Your room will be amazing when it's done. Oh, I have the BK Monolith (downward firing) and had a fair amount of success with positioning. I've 'hidden' it under a console table, put it next to the sofa behind the door boxing it in and it's sounded quite good especially for a ported box. These were only temporary positions while I sorted cabling out and would have made the likes of the guys here who know their stuff just refuse to even look at it due to the ridiculous positions its been in, but it genuinely did (by my ears) sound ok. Keep us updated on the build!
Just tagging a question on about subwoofers and hope that you don't mind. I had also planned to have wiring for one either side of the projector in a 5m-ish wide room. Would I also be wise to run another cable in the wall to the mid left hand wall or similar as another option sub placement or does one front left and one right right typically suffice?
Looking forward to how this progresses!
Looking forward to how this progresses!
rockin said:
Have you checked the acoustics? From the photos I'm seeing a lot of hard, reflective surfaces.
I doubt the ceiling would be a problem but the floor and walls may need particular care.
We're going to have carpets on the floor and a mixture of normal and acoustic plasterboard on the walls and ceiling attached to either a studs or battens.I doubt the ceiling would be a problem but the floor and walls may need particular care.
Gingerbread Man said:
Just tagging a question on about subwoofers and hope that you don't mind. I had also planned to have wiring for one either side of the projector in a 5m-ish wide room. Would I also be wise to run another cable in the wall to the mid left hand wall or similar as another option sub placement or does one front left and one right right typically suffice?
Looking forward to how this progresses!
Hi GBMLooking forward to how this progresses!
In a properly balanced properly (as in bass re-inforcment) the human ear actually struggles to hear where bass frequencies come from, so for these types of applications (low to mid range systems) it is as much about aethectics and furniture positioning as it is sound and performance. As long and the bass can 'breathe' and get / move air easily most people will enjoy the sound rather than worry about where it comes from.
If you want real punch, get a pair of subs! - This should help with your cable positioning. https://www.svsound.com/blogs/svs/75040195-why-go-...
HTH
V.
VEX said:
Gingerbread Man said:
Just tagging a question on about subwoofers and hope that you don't mind. I had also planned to have wiring for one either side of the projector in a 5m-ish wide room. Would I also be wise to run another cable in the wall to the mid left hand wall or similar as another option sub placement or does one front left and one right right typically suffice?
Looking forward to how this progresses!
Hi GBMLooking forward to how this progresses!
In a properly balanced properly (as in bass re-inforcment) the human ear actually struggles to hear where bass frequencies come from, so for these types of applications (low to mid range systems) it is as much about aethectics and furniture positioning as it is sound and performance. As long and the bass can 'breathe' and get / move air easily most people will enjoy the sound rather than worry about where it comes from.
If you want real punch, get a pair of subs! - This should help with your cable positioning. https://www.svsound.com/blogs/svs/75040195-why-go-...
HTH
V.
I had bought faceplates for two sub points, front left and front right. I was hoping that this would do, but I can wire in another point if wise.
I was hoping to preliminary wire for a 7.2.4 setup in a 5w by 6.5d room. Not sure if going for anymore is worth it!? It's downstairs. Block walls (studded within). Only two windows at the rear. Thought it made a good designation.
I'll read your link. Ta
7.2.4 will be plenty in a room that size, depending on your budget I'd spend it on better speakers & hardware than thier number. Unless it is a dedicated room with a good budget it will be a rule of diminishing returns.
I have built a 7.4.4 dedicated room for a client with top end speakers and good hardware and the guy who calibrated it (worked for JBL Pro) commented that we have a reference preview screening room quality.
I have built a 5.2.2 system at home, in a sitting room, and it is certainly not 1/4 of the performance, IMO not even half, but it is certainly less than 1/4 of the cost.
V.
I have built a 7.4.4 dedicated room for a client with top end speakers and good hardware and the guy who calibrated it (worked for JBL Pro) commented that we have a reference preview screening room quality.
I have built a 5.2.2 system at home, in a sitting room, and it is certainly not 1/4 of the performance, IMO not even half, but it is certainly less than 1/4 of the cost.
V.
Russ_H said:
Thanks for that.
I've had a play and I'm not sure if it's good, bad or to be expected
[pic]speaker layout by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]
The result doesn't change when I move the Sub around, the biggest influence seems to be the room height which is fixed.
Two smaller Subs at the front looks to be pretty much the same.
So, in this case am I right in saying that smaller sub will be better??
Cheers
Apologies for not responding earlier...........not been on PH for a few days.I've had a play and I'm not sure if it's good, bad or to be expected
[pic]
speaker layout by Russell Hamilton, on Flickr[/pic]The result doesn't change when I move the Sub around, the biggest influence seems to be the room height which is fixed.
Two smaller Subs at the front looks to be pretty much the same.
So, in this case am I right in saying that smaller sub will be better??
Cheers
You mention the result not changing when the sub position is changed..........is that the amplitude graph ( red curve and blue 'pointy ears; ) and the node / antinode graph ( coloured squares image )? The blue response should change as the sub position changes; if it doesn't then something wrong somewhere.
Morning all,
Bit of a thread resurrection.......I’m just about to crack on with the build but have been thrown a bit of a curve ball.
I’ve been offered 3 Bowers & Wilkins Signature 7NT In Wall Speakers. They’re a few years old but seem to be well regarded in their time.
The stud wall hasn’t been built yet so I can accommodate them but I’ve heard in-wall speakers can be a bit.....crap. Is this true for the B&W or should I just stick the the planned MA on-wall speakers?
Thanks
Bit of a thread resurrection.......I’m just about to crack on with the build but have been thrown a bit of a curve ball.
I’ve been offered 3 Bowers & Wilkins Signature 7NT In Wall Speakers. They’re a few years old but seem to be well regarded in their time.
The stud wall hasn’t been built yet so I can accommodate them but I’ve heard in-wall speakers can be a bit.....crap. Is this true for the B&W or should I just stick the the planned MA on-wall speakers?
Thanks
I’ve had all combinations of in-wall and standalone/wall mount speakers in 3 AV rooms I’ve put together in various rooms.
The long and the short of it is that IMO standalones, when correctly positioned, will give you the ultimate best experience. HOWEVER in-walls are not inherently rubbish, and at the mid/high end there’s no reason not to use them if they offer installation advantages. I’ve used B&W in-walls for surround channels and they were fine. I’ve currently got the thinnest Monitor Audio in-walls for my LCR in my main room and they don’t detract from the experience.
TL;DR buy the B&W in-walls if they work for your installation.
The long and the short of it is that IMO standalones, when correctly positioned, will give you the ultimate best experience. HOWEVER in-walls are not inherently rubbish, and at the mid/high end there’s no reason not to use them if they offer installation advantages. I’ve used B&W in-walls for surround channels and they were fine. I’ve currently got the thinnest Monitor Audio in-walls for my LCR in my main room and they don’t detract from the experience.
TL;DR buy the B&W in-walls if they work for your installation.
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