Hi-Fi Amp for low impedance speakers

[anonymous-user]

Evening,

I am looking for a decent Hi-Fi integrated amplifier to drive my Focal speakers that is high current as the speakers (Focals) go down to 2.8 ohms, budget is £2-3k.

The options I have found are.

Hegel H190
Moon 240i
Music Fidelity M6i

The Hegel is interesting as it has some bells and whistles e.g. streaming, the Moon and Music Fidelity are pretty basic.

Does anyone have any experience of the amps they can share?

Thanks in advnice.

[tonyg58]

I've heard a few Hegels, they're good amps, but i've found that they need quite a lot of volume to get going (which may help with the Focals) at low levels they are a bit slow and flat. They do have the built in DAC and also the streaming capability so they are a nice package.
The only Moon I've heard was fast and powerful, but I thought it was very cold (customer bought a pair of Dynaudio Special 40s to go with it and they are a bit soft and warm, so he ended up with a nice sounding system).
Don't know the Musical Fidelity so can't comment.
Try to find somewhere to audition them would always be the best option.
Whatever you decide enjoy your music.

[Lucid_AV]

gottans said:

Evening,

I am looking for a decent Hi-Fi integrated amplifier to drive my Focal speakers that is high current as the speakers (Focals) go down to 2.8 ohms,

Your Focals might hit a low of 2.8 Ohms at a specific frequency, but unless you're [u]only[/u] playing that specific tone then it's not something you should really worry about with the class of amps you are considering.

Music contains a broad spectrum of frequencies, so whilst the speaker is playing X hz at 2.8 Ohms it will also be playing Y Hz at 8 Ohms and Z Hz at 12 Ohms. The whole thing balances out.

I have JM Labs (Focal) Electra 905s up front. I have driven them with all sorts of amps including some modestly-powered vintage solid state gear at little more than 20W.p.c.

[TUS373]

I have a Moon 240i and absolutely adore it. Running it with a Moon MiND2 streamer and 260D CD player. I am using Dali Oberon 7s which are good for the budget. Moon also do the ACE which I believe is pretty much a 240i with built in streamer. Great amp and in your budget.

I have no experience of the other amps of course so can only speak for Moon. The products are very well built, look as good as they sound, tend to be upgradeable, and keep their value well.

There are sometimes secondhand 340i on Ebay for around £2,500 which could also be a good buy.

[Tony1963]

If you’re buying new at that price, I’d expect the shop to allow you to have a home demo for a few days. It’s the only way to really know what’s going to work for you, regardless of impedance concerns.

[kayc]

gottans said:

Evening,

I am looking for a decent Hi-Fi integrated amplifier to drive my Focal speakers that is high current as the speakers (Focals) go down to 2.8 ohms, budget is £2-3k.

The options I have found are.

Hegel H190
Moon 240i
Music Fidelity M6i

The Hegel is interesting as it has some bells and whistles e.g. streaming, the Moon and Music Fidelity are pretty basic.

Does anyone have any experience of the amps they can share?

Thanks in advnice.

Vitus R101..a few around second hand..great amps and ive had many..Audio research,Pass lab,Naim etc..only sold my R101 to upgrade to a higher level Vitus.

[Crackie]

gottans said:

Evening,

I am looking for a decent Hi-Fi integrated amplifier to drive my Focal speakers that is high current as the speakers (Focals) go down to 2.8 ohms, budget is £2-3k.

The options I have found are.

Hegel H190
Moon 240i
Music Fidelity M6i

The Hegel is interesting as it has some bells and whistles e.g. streaming, the Moon and Music Fidelity are pretty basic.

Does anyone have any experience of the amps they can share?

Thanks in advnice.

It might be worth try adding the new cambridge EVO 150 to your shortlist. https://stereo-magazine.com/review/cambridge-evo-1...

The reviews I've seen so far have been very favourable..........along the lines of " This isn't going back, I'm keeping the review sample."

Should be fairly easy to get to audition one too........

Another option would be to try one of these http://www.bantamone.com/showroom.php

UK made, 3 year warranty.......60 day trial..........Output stage rated and stable down to 2 Ohms. review / test here. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/04...

Best of luck with the search

EDIT - Another for the shortlist........Dirac room correction built in https://www.hifinews.com/content/arcam-sa30-networ...

Edited by Crackie on Thursday 20th May 09:49

[mgv8]

If you can test that is always the best, I would add a NAD to the list.

[anonymous-user]

All good comments and suggestions, much appreciated.

And the shops are open to try a few.

[TUS373]

Out of interest, what Focal speakers do you have? I heard the Moon 240i with a pair of Arias and they sounded superb. I was really looking for floor standers at the time and got the Dali's as a stop gap measure. Might come back to Focals when I can site the equipment in another room. Lovely speakers and amongst the very best for the budget.

[njw1]

Lucid_AV said:

Your Focals might hit a low of 2.8 Ohms at a specific frequency, but unless you're [u]only[/u] playing that specific tone then it's not something you should really worry about with the class of amps you are considering.

Music contains a broad spectrum of frequencies, so whilst the speaker is playing X hz at 2.8 Ohms it will also be playing Y Hz at 8 Ohms and Z Hz at 12 Ohms. The whole thing balances out.

I have JM Labs (Focal) Electra 905s up front. I have driven them with all sorts of amps including some modestly-powered vintage solid state gear at little more than 20W.p.c.

^^This, hence why a speakers impedance rating is always a 'nominal' value, any amp that has decent 4r performance should drive those speakers just fine.

[anonymous-user]

TUS373 said:

Out of interest, what Focal speakers do you have? I heard the Moon 240i with a pair of Arias and they sounded superb. I was really looking for floor standers at the time and got the Dali's as a stop gap measure. Might come back to Focals when I can site the equipment in another room. Lovely speakers and amongst the very best for the budget.

Very interesting as I have the Aria 936, very pleased with them. I bought ex-demo so mint condition and £1k off the new price. The trouble with the Moon amp is the nearest dealer is quite a long way away.

One thing I'm not sure about is how big an amp is needed, the 240i is 50W @ £2.6k, to move up to the 340ix for 100W is £3.8k which is big jump in price.

[TUS373]

Nice speakers. I would be very happy with those for sure. Might go and try a pair in the future. I really rate Focal.

50W does perhaps not sound much (and depends on impedence), but you might be surprised. Unlike other HiFI I have had, there is no distortion I have noticed even at high volume. The scale goes to 80 and the most I have gone is 60. It filled the room with crystal clear sound. I usually play between 30 and 40 and that is plenty for comfortable listening. If I had it at 80, I think I would get complaints even with ample separation between houses in a semi rural area.

I inherited my amp and it was brand new (sad story) so never auditioned it. I did however take the amp around to try on different speakers in shops as not many places do stock Moon. The Arias were amazing. The other speakers I liked were Spendor A4 I think but £2400. Too risky at the time for position in the house.

Where in the country are you?

[philv]

Ask the question on hifiwigwam.
Very good hifi specific forums.

[moonigan]

Cyrus work well with low impedance speakers.

[Johno]

Naim supernait?

Given Naim and Focal are part of the same group. When working through stand mounters for my Nova the relationship between the Naim and and the Focal Kanta’s was outstanding compared to others - subjective of course.

Spent 2hrs in the listening room and an hour of that was with the focal’s alone.

If you want streaming etc. Then consider the Naim Uniti range. Gave up with separates quite some time ago and have an Atom running Neat Motivs and the Nova running the Focal Kantas with sub woofer, with a couple of Muso QB’s for multi room.

Also, just bought a new house and the developer had built in speakers put into the kitchen and bathroom during the renovation work. Was a bit dismissive, but hated the lack of use, redundant kit. Wiring goes to cupboard in the hall, so have put in a bluesound powernode 2 to run them with an audioflow smart speaker switch. I’d tested bluesound a few years ago and went NAD and Sonos at the time, now Naim as their kit came on. However I have to say the bluesound powernode for the money is excellent as a one box solution. Great connectivity so my wife can have radio 2 in the kitchen

Edited by Johno on Saturday 22 May 08:08

[anonymous-user]

Update with a bit of progress, spoke to a Moon dealer, all very positive for a demo but to audition the unit at home, they wanted me to buy it with a promise of a refund minus the transaction fee (rather than just a charge on a CC). Only alternative was a paid home demo costing several hundred pounds, IMHO they were taking the piss.

Spoke with a Hegel dealer about an integrated amp for my speakers, a chalk and cheese experience, good discussion on the phone (at least 30 mins), booked a 2 hour demo for a couple of amps, Hegel and AVM. The AVM is not a brand I was aware of but had a good listen to both as good ability with my speakers and very impressed with both.

They were happy for me to take one away to listen at home for a week so currently listening to the Hegel H190 at home and I could quite happily keep it but would really like to have the AVM at home too.

Still interested in trying a Moon amp if I can find an accomodating dealer within a reasonable distance from me.

[tonyg58]

gottans said:

Update with a bit of progress, spoke to a Moon dealer, all very positive for a demo but to audition the unit at home, they wanted me to buy it with a promise of a refund minus the transaction fee (rather than just a charge on a CC). Only alternative was a paid home demo costing several hundred pounds, IMHO they were taking the piss.

Spoke with a Hegel dealer about an integrated amp for my speakers, a chalk and cheese experience, good discussion on the phone (at least 30 mins), booked a 2 hour demo for a couple of amps, Hegel and AVM. The AVM is not a brand I was aware of but had a good listen to both as good ability with my speakers and very impressed with both.

They were happy for me to take one away to listen at home for a week so currently listening to the Hegel H190 at home and I could quite happily keep it but would really like to have the AVM at home too.

Still interested in trying a Moon amp if I can find an accomodating dealer within a reasonable distance from me.

The dealer was being careful.
I worked in a hifi shop for a while and we used to lend units to customers until one of our customers pointed out that if the unit was out of our shop and it got damaged/destroyed our insurance would not cover it and if it was in his house and did not belong to him then his house insurance did not cover it either.
Also heard a story about a London dealer who loaned a customer a high end AV processor (£8k plus) and he had died.
They had loaned it to him on a handshake and could not prove to the executors that it belonged to them.
You could always borrow it and pay for it on a credit card a couple of days after your bill has come in and return it before the bill is due.
I'm sure they could be persuaded to waive the transaction fees if you tried.

[anonymous-user]

tonyg58 said:

gottans said:

Update with a bit of progress, spoke to a Moon dealer, all very positive for a demo but to audition the unit at home, they wanted me to buy it with a promise of a refund minus the transaction fee (rather than just a charge on a CC). Only alternative was a paid home demo costing several hundred pounds, IMHO they were taking the piss.

Spoke with a Hegel dealer about an integrated amp for my speakers, a chalk and cheese experience, good discussion on the phone (at least 30 mins), booked a 2 hour demo for a couple of amps, Hegel and AVM. The AVM is not a brand I was aware of but had a good listen to both as good ability with my speakers and very impressed with both.

They were happy for me to take one away to listen at home for a week so currently listening to the Hegel H190 at home and I could quite happily keep it but would really like to have the AVM at home too.

Still interested in trying a Moon amp if I can find an accomodating dealer within a reasonable distance from me.

The dealer was being careful.
I worked in a hifi shop for a while and we used to lend units to customers until one of our customers pointed out that if the unit was out of our shop and it got damaged/destroyed our insurance would not cover it and if it was in his house and did not belong to him then his house insurance did not cover it either.
Also heard a story about a London dealer who loaned a customer a high end AV processor (£8k plus) and he had died.
They had loaned it to him on a handshake and could not prove to the executors that it belonged to them.
You could always borrow it and pay for it on a credit card a couple of days after your bill has come in and return it before the bill is due.
I'm sure they could be persuaded to waive the transaction fees if you tried.

Careful my arse, they could have put a charge on my credit card to ring fence the money just as car hire companies do but wouldn't. They wanted the money in their account and all the risk on my side, that is taking the piss when there was a fairer alternative that provided equal protection to the loaned asset.

By 'forcing' a sale as they tried you can't return the product easily unless it is faulty, you can't just change your mind like you can with the distance selling regulations.

[Lucid_AV]

gottans said:

Careful my arse, they could have put a charge on my credit card to ring fence the money just as car hire companies do but wouldn't. They wanted the money in their account and all the risk on my side, that is taking the piss when there was a fairer alternative that provided equal protection to the loaned asset.

By 'forcing' a sale as they tried you can't return the product easily unless it is faulty, you can't just change your mind like you can with the distance selling regulations.

Like you, I'm a bit puzzled by their attitude. Dealers carry demonstration stock. They get a hefty additional discount from the manufacturers/distributors to facilitate this. The idea with demo stock is that it's there to help the dealer sell the products, and it used to be expected that this stock would be available for home loan as well as in-store demo.

The usual way with this is a customer would already had done one or two in-store demos to get down to a final selection of one or possibly two items. The home loan allows them to see how the gear sounds in their own listening room, and so the 'loan' isn't some drop-of-a-hat thing to any Tom, Dick or Harry walking through the door. The customer puts the normal selling price on their credit card. When they bring the demo unit back as agreed, nd in good condition, then the sale is refunded. If the demo went well, they'll purchase a new item. If not, it's back to a bit more demoing.

I don't see why there should be a problem of "Oh you bought it. Now you can't return it". It's the demo unit. It was never meant to be kept by the customer unless the store is selling of ex-demo gear. There used to be a 6-month turnaround on demo stock. As for damage etc, well, that's down to the customer's home insurance.

I can imagine that some (most?) insurers have a single item value limit that falls below that of exotic Hi-Fi amps. That's why it's sensible to notify the home insurer if there's some risk involved or just for peace of mind on major items. But before anyone even needs to get near their insurer, all new purchases of £100 and over are automatically covered by the credit card company. They have to. It's Law. It's called Section 75. This was part of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and it has been carried forward in to the new Consumer Rights Act that came in to power in 2015 to replace the CCA.

Some credit card companies go further and offer additional levels of accidental damage cover.

Unless there's some info missing, then I have to say it sounds to me like the dealer was being an arse. Use the demo gear for what it was meant for. There's even the argument that a demo item is run in, so is more representative of what the product should sound like rather than something brand new out of the box.