Integrated Bi Wire Amp with Spotify!?

[oldaudi]

Please excuse my ignorance. It’s been awhile since I’ve ventured back to the world of Hi Fi. I’ve not bought anything since the mid 90s.....

In the attic I have an old pair of B&W 602 shelf speakers and some TDL RTL 2 floor standers. I use to run the b and w bi wired with several amps over the years and wish to keep using them. I’m looking for an amp that will drive them bi wired that also allows streaming from Spotify if such a things exist... I’d like to plug my sky box into it too so I at least get stereo.

I don’t need a CD player or any other separates. A single “box” with streaming, amplification, optical input from sky and bi wired if possible although bi wire isn’t critical. Does such a thing exist? Thank you

Edited by oldaudi on Sunday 27th June 10:14

[dundarach]

I have a DRA-800H.

This is a 2 channel single box, biwire amp (I've biwired mine) with phono inputs.

Has two phono in's and a bunch of HDMI and Opticals also. However NO tape out loop!

Very warm sounding and sounds really good.

I made the move backwards from a Pioneer 7.1 THX jobby as was sick of speaks and nonsense etc. and wanted to get back more to basics.

Really please with it, very solid on wifi and streams from Spotify and my NAS.

On Mission 734's

https://www.denon.com/en-gb/product/av-receivers/d...

[Lucid_AV]

oldaudi said:

Please excuse my ignorance. It’s been awhile since I’ve ventured back to the world of Hi Fi. I’ve not bought anything since the mid 90s.....

In the attic I have an old pair of B&W 602 shelf speakers and some TDL RTL 2 floor standers. I use to run the b and w bi wired with several amps over the years and wish to keep using them. I’m looking for an amp that will drive them bi wired that also allows streaming from Spotify if such a things exist... I’d like to plug my sky box into it too so I at least get stereo.

I don’t need a CD player or any other separates. A single “box” with streaming, amplification, optical input from sky and bi wired if possible although bi wire isn’t critical. Does such a thing exist? Thank you

Edited by oldaudi on Sunday 27th June 10:14

Any stereo or AV amp will do bi-wire. Are you sure bi-wire is what you mean?

Bi-wire is where the wires for say the left speaker start as a single + & - connection at the amp end and then branch to two + & - connections at the speaker. One set goes to the tweeter connections. The other to the bass. The speaker cable forms a letter Y; single point at the amp end, two.points at the speaker. Repeats left and right the same.

Both sets of connections at the speaker end get the full frequency spectrum from the amp. The sound still goes through the crossover to filter bass from treble.

Since there is the same connection at the amp end as driving a speaker with the bridging links in place then there's nothing special about b-wiring in terms of the amp requirement.

The above is how bi-wiring is done.

The alternatives are
(a) passive bi-amping
(b) active bi-amping

Passive bi-amping is where two channels of amplification are used per speaker. Since the bass drivers take more current then the typical fashion would be to have a more powerful stereo amp drive the LF inputs on each speaker, then a less powerful one for the tweeters. The important thing here is that there are two amps rather than one. This means two amps plugged in individually at the mains sockets. It's a lot more power.

Passive bi-amping still gives each amp the full range signal. Each speaker connection - LF and HF - gets the full range signal too. There's more power, but a chunk of it is wasted in unnecessary amplification outside the driver's frequency range. This is where active bi-amping comes in.

With an active system the frequency is divided before amplification. The speakers have no crossovers. It's far more energy efficient, and so more power goes to making music.


What I think you might be calling bi-wire is to run with Spkrs A+B from a single amplifier. IOW, you have two sets of speaker cables per individual speaker. The tweeters driven from say Spkrs A out, and the woofers from Spkrs B. If so, you're looking for an amp with two sets of speaker outputs.

You can run your speakers how you like of course, but it might be worth remembering that a single amp only has one power transformer. Running Spkrs A+B doesn't increase the power output. It simply divides the existing power in to smaller slices.

I know people like the sound of B&Ws bi-wired, and B&Ws do like a bit of power so a bigger amp usually produces better result whether bi-wired or mono-wired. Maybe audition some more powerful amps when using proper bi-wire rather than limiting your search to amps with Spkrs A+B.

[Tony1963]

OP,

Why do you want to biwire? It really doesn't provide any sonic benefits, and at best doubles your speaker cable cost.

[oldaudi]

You’re right. I guess I don’t need to bi wire. Back when I was into this stuff, I had integrated Amps that allowed separate - and + feeds to the tweeter and bass/midrange drivers. I would run two feeds of cable to the back of the speaker.

As you say, labelled A and B and were probably really used for running two pairs of speakers rather than actually separate frequencies going to tweeter and mid range.

I always swore I could hear a difference but probably not now that my ears are older. Then I moved to pre And power amp then mono blocks and basically tried to separate the channels as much as possible. Some good kit during the mid and late 90s.

My speakers obviously allow just one set of cables too with a small metal connector stuck between both the inputs on the back.

So let’s remove the idea of what I called bi wire!

A single integrated amp, that allows streaming of Spotify and a single stereo pair of speakers will be enough

Edited by oldaudi on Sunday 27th June 13:00

[anonymous-user]

I’ve been looking at Sonos amps recently. They will probably fit the bill.

[Lucid_AV]

Tony1963 said:

OP,

Why do you want to biwire? It really doesn't provide any sonic benefits, and at best doubles your speaker cable cost.

It does change the character of the sound, more so with some speakers than others.

Changing the sound doesn't automatically mean "better" though. For brands with good time coherence such as Focal, IMO bi-wiring messes up the timing and also creates an odd disjointedness between the treble and mid/bass. It's a little odd to me then that folk seem to gravitate towards it with B&W. A company capable of the sound engineering to produce the Nautilus should know about timing.

You're right about the cable cost increase. Bi-wire = buy wire.... ka-ching for the dealer's till.

[Tony1963]

OP,

Yep, single wire, but if you can, ditch the link plates/bars at the speaker end and replace with short off-cuts of speaker cable. You should hear an immediate improvement. Then try it with the main speaker cables attached to the bass, then tweeter connections… you ‘might’ hear a difference.

Edit, link cables:

[sociopath]

Blueos Powernode 2i will provide amp services and streaming, as will several of the Cambridge audio streaming components. Lots of others too. I suggest you look at richer sounds for other examples

[oldaudi]

Thank you everyone. Forgot about Richer sounds! Spent many Saturday afternoons in there in Bristol... blimey. I’m getting old

[S6PNJ]

Tony1963 said:

... if you can, ditch the link plates/bars at the speaker end and replace with short off-cuts of speaker cable. You should hear an immediate improvement.

Without wishing to derail the OPs thread, why will this create an immediate improvement? The shorting plates are probably solid metal of some form, but possibly not copper, whereas the speaker wire will probably be copper - is this the 'only' improvement or is something else at work?

[Tony1963]

S6PNJ said:

Without wishing to derail the OPs thread, why will this create an immediate improvement? The shorting plates are probably solid metal of some form, but possibly not copper, whereas the speaker wire will probably be copper - is this the 'only' improvement or is something else at work?

I’ll be polite and diplomatic here

All I’m saying to the op is ‘give it a go’ because, handily, this can be tried very cheaply, maybe for free. I’m not going to get bogged down in science, ABX testing and other diversions. It really isn’t worth the circular arguments when just trying it is cheap and, for the OP, definitive.

[Lucid_AV]

Tony1963 said:

OP,

Yep, single wire, but if you can, ditch the link plates/bars at the speaker end and replace with short off-cuts of speaker cable. You should hear an immediate improvement. Then try it with the main speaker cables attached to the bass, then tweeter connections… you ‘might’ hear a difference.

Edit, link cables:

Go even simpler and save some cash too...

Undo the screws holding on the speaker binding plate. The back of each speaker post will look like a bolt with a nut holding it in place. The nut also holds one of the speaker wires.

Simply transfer the HF connections down to the corresponding LF connections. Tighten up and reassemble. Job done.

[Tony1963]

[Crackie]

Here's an option for the shortlist. Yamaha WXA-50 received a 'recommended' when Hi-Fi Choice magazine reviewed it at £500. You can get them at a few place for £365ish at the moment.

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual...

Doesn't do bi-wire but as others have mentioned it's not worthwhile...........certainly not on your 602's. The B&W team at Steyning behind the 602 knew how to design crossovers.

[VEX]

Bluesound Powernode 2i has now been updated again.

It is now just a PowerNode (2021) with increased power output, better DAC and better touch controls on the actual device, including programable pre-sets.

RRP has gone up £50 as well, but this could be lost for PH friends.

[mgv8]

https://www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk/p-41958-...

Wound be nice!

[stevoknevo]

VEX said:

Bluesound Powernode 2i has now been updated again.

It is now just a PowerNode (2021) with increased power output, better DAC and better touch controls on the actual device, including programable pre-sets.

RRP has gone up £50 as well, but this could be lost for PH friends.

John Darko loved it with a pair of KEF LS50 Metas and the new KEF K62 sub.

https://youtu.be/NhRMWjDcEoU

EDIT - HA! Just noticed I'd posted the same link on Monday and you'd quoted me
I blame the meds...

Edited by stevoknevo on Wednesday 30th June 13:11

[Sporky]

S6PNJ said:

Tony1963 said:

... if you can, ditch the link plates/bars at the speaker end and replace with short off-cuts of speaker cable. You should hear an immediate improvement.

Without wishing to derail the OPs thread, why will this create an immediate improvement?

It won't, or he'd be able to explain why. Just audiophile superstition.

[oldaudi]

I did this. Some Chord cable to bridge HF and LF.

Thanks for the suggestions on streaming solutions....
as you can see they are 601.... I originally said 602. Whoops

Edited by oldaudi on Thursday 1st July 20:06