Upgrades from 5.1 - worth it/noticeable for home movies?
Discussion
Ok - so I'm basically happy with my current (but aging) budget-ish mixed 5.1 setup.
Sky HD via optical to my 'vintage' 2001 Marantz SR4200 amp (a £400 price point What Hifi gold award winner at the time - whatever that is worth
).
The DVD player is a similar vintage Pioneer DV-545, connected to the amp via co-axial digital and the TV via posh SCART. I see the DVD player as the weakest link currently.
I have 3 Kef 5005s across the front soundstage, coupled with small TEAC surrounds and the TEAC sub from my old Legacy 800 system.
The sound for movies is I think pretty damn good. There is excellent detail from the KEFs in my limited opinion, the sub packs a good punch (I have to turn it down) and the surrounds while nothing special, provide the, er, surround.
TV is a 42PX60 btw.
So my question is - how much has sound quality really moved on in the last 8 years or so?
Would refreshing the amp and going via HDMI really provide a massive leap forward in sound quality? Is it worth considering upgrading the surrounds or sub?
Sky HD via optical to my 'vintage' 2001 Marantz SR4200 amp (a £400 price point What Hifi gold award winner at the time - whatever that is worth
).The DVD player is a similar vintage Pioneer DV-545, connected to the amp via co-axial digital and the TV via posh SCART. I see the DVD player as the weakest link currently.
I have 3 Kef 5005s across the front soundstage, coupled with small TEAC surrounds and the TEAC sub from my old Legacy 800 system.
The sound for movies is I think pretty damn good. There is excellent detail from the KEFs in my limited opinion, the sub packs a good punch (I have to turn it down) and the surrounds while nothing special, provide the, er, surround.
TV is a 42PX60 btw.
So my question is - how much has sound quality really moved on in the last 8 years or so?
Would refreshing the amp and going via HDMI really provide a massive leap forward in sound quality? Is it worth considering upgrading the surrounds or sub?
Depends how much spare cash you have floating about.
The fronts and centre (especially centre) is the most important part of the set-up for dialogue etc. The surrounds not so important, so wouldn't have thought upgrading rears will give you much benefit.
As for the sub woofer, if you are already having to turn it down! As long as it sounds tight and not flapping!! (ooeerrr missus). Problem is most people have the bass too high and distracts from the overall experience. Perhaps buy a cheap sound meter from Maplins and do a speaker test for correct levels.
I personally would go about upgrading the DVD player first. Even though the Pioneer was good in its day, there is far better now and with the addition of HDMI connections etc. Depends if you want blu-ray, but if not so important then go for something like a Oppo with up-scaling capabilities. But if budget is tight there are other brands that also do up-scaling for less money.
The fronts and centre (especially centre) is the most important part of the set-up for dialogue etc. The surrounds not so important, so wouldn't have thought upgrading rears will give you much benefit.
As for the sub woofer, if you are already having to turn it down! As long as it sounds tight and not flapping!! (ooeerrr missus). Problem is most people have the bass too high and distracts from the overall experience. Perhaps buy a cheap sound meter from Maplins and do a speaker test for correct levels.
I personally would go about upgrading the DVD player first. Even though the Pioneer was good in its day, there is far better now and with the addition of HDMI connections etc. Depends if you want blu-ray, but if not so important then go for something like a Oppo with up-scaling capabilities. But if budget is tight there are other brands that also do up-scaling for less money.
I've gone through a progression of sound upgrades over the years: From a budget Denon receiver (2802) with a motley collection of speakers and a fairly basic DVD player, through more powerful Denon amps and better speakers, plus BluRay. Today I've gone back a slight step by selling my Denon 2808 that did the HD decoding and instead I've bought an older but quality Arcam processor and separate power amps, PMC speakers, a pretty decent subwoofer and (for now) a modest Sony BluRay player until the new Arcam one comes out (I hope).
The system I have now can really make you feel like you're in the action, make sounds seem like they're outside the room (spooky at times
) and generally is a pleasure to listen to. Each step has shown an improvement to some element of the sound, like adding the subwoofer meant I get that room pressurising effect with deep explosions and such, or the better processor/amps improved the clarity and soundstage. It's all a matter of how far you want to go...I could go further myself as there are plenty of systems about that would show mine a clean pair of heels, but you have to draw the line somewhere (or keep an eye on the classifieds like I've been doing).
The other thing is whether you live in a flat, terrace or semi you may have to consider neighbours (unless they're deaf or your living room is the furthest room from the party wall perhaps). Maybe buying a great big sub or a very powerful amp that you can't enjoy might be be a bit of a waste. It might be better to buy a system that works best at lower volumes (such as an amp with Dolby volume/EQ for example). So lots of things to consider and not all of them related directly to having the cash to spend.
The system I have now can really make you feel like you're in the action, make sounds seem like they're outside the room (spooky at times
) and generally is a pleasure to listen to. Each step has shown an improvement to some element of the sound, like adding the subwoofer meant I get that room pressurising effect with deep explosions and such, or the better processor/amps improved the clarity and soundstage. It's all a matter of how far you want to go...I could go further myself as there are plenty of systems about that would show mine a clean pair of heels, but you have to draw the line somewhere (or keep an eye on the classifieds like I've been doing). The other thing is whether you live in a flat, terrace or semi you may have to consider neighbours (unless they're deaf or your living room is the furthest room from the party wall perhaps). Maybe buying a great big sub or a very powerful amp that you can't enjoy might be be a bit of a waste. It might be better to buy a system that works best at lower volumes (such as an amp with Dolby volume/EQ for example). So lots of things to consider and not all of them related directly to having the cash to spend.
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Tuesday 23 February 23:40
skinny said:
do you just send 2 channel sound from each, or can you actually send a 5.1 signal? if you're only sendign 2 channel sound then your amp is having to 'make up' a signal to send to teh 5 speakers, and discrete 5.1 audio i think would be a fair bit better.
Optical audio from the HD box is 5.1 as far as I'm aware - the amp is proper DTS.I'm upgrading mine at the moment from a fairly modest setup - Denon 2307 amp and Kef 5005.2 speakers. I'm leaning towards staying with Denon and Kef but using a hi-fi stereo amp to power the front left/right channels which means I can get some fairly funky stereo speakers and not feel they are wasted on an av amp (and my music listening is then still through hi-fi gear).
In terms of speakers, I'm looking at Kef 201/2 left/right. Kef XQ rears and maybe a reference centre - although I just bought a used XQ2c to play around with and am pretty impressed with that, so dont know if the extra outlay is worth it.
In terms of speakers, I'm looking at Kef 201/2 left/right. Kef XQ rears and maybe a reference centre - although I just bought a used XQ2c to play around with and am pretty impressed with that, so dont know if the extra outlay is worth it.
OldSkool, I'm still using my old Denon 2808 in the bedroom. It was a mid-range receiver nine years ago and still produces good results wth KEF 2005s.
In the main system, I now have an Arcam AV888 going through five Cyrus power amplifiers (Mono X x2 for front left and right, SmartPower mono for the center, SmartPower for the surrounds and 6 Power for the rears. Even with BluRay, I find very few discs make any use of the rears. The new HD formats are certainly better, but a good old DTS track is still impressive.
In the main system, I now have an Arcam AV888 going through five Cyrus power amplifiers (Mono X x2 for front left and right, SmartPower mono for the center, SmartPower for the surrounds and 6 Power for the rears. Even with BluRay, I find very few discs make any use of the rears. The new HD formats are certainly better, but a good old DTS track is still impressive.
Zod said:
OldSkool, I'm still using my old Denon 2808 in the bedroom. It was a mid-range receiver nine years ago and still produces good results wth KEF 2005s.
In the main system, I now have an Arcam AV888 going through five Cyrus power amplifiers (Mono X x2 for front left and right, SmartPower mono for the center, SmartPower for the surrounds and 6 Power for the rears. Even with BluRay, I find very few discs make any use of the rears. The new HD formats are certainly better, but a good old DTS track is still impressive.
I've seen this written quite often, yet I found that I've watched plenty of BluRays with 7.1 soundtracks...must be my choice of film. I do tend to use the rear matrixing effect as well if the soundtrack isn't 'full' 7.1 as it helps spread the sound out better in my setup. The thing I'm not missing is the HD soundtrack as I'm still getting 'core' DTS which is a much higher bitrate than the sound from DVD, so still a step up from DVD. Having it processed and amplified by some decent (if old) Arcam gear seems to give a better overall result for me. The 2808 wasn't 'bad' as such, but particularly for stereo music the Arcam is much better, which was my main aim with the change; to try to get an AV setup that can do stereo well, which I seem to have achieved. I was tempted by a used AV888 I saw for £3k, but there's been so much reported issues with the AVR500/600/AV888 regarding pops and HDMI handshake issues I deceided to live up to my name and stay oldskool. In the main system, I now have an Arcam AV888 going through five Cyrus power amplifiers (Mono X x2 for front left and right, SmartPower mono for the center, SmartPower for the surrounds and 6 Power for the rears. Even with BluRay, I find very few discs make any use of the rears. The new HD formats are certainly better, but a good old DTS track is still impressive.
BTW: Are you sure the 2808 is 9 years old now. I'd have thought nearer 3 or 4 as I've recently thrown out an old 2802 that was around 9 years old (the power amp section had failed, but to be fair I think it had overheated in my conservatory)?
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Monday 1st March 15:12
Sorry, I meant the 2802 is nine years old.
I'm not getting any pops from the Arcam and the HDMI handshake issues are resolved by setting each input to HDMI, rather than having it scan all inputs every time you switch input device. It works well, unlike the Cyrus AV Master 8.0 which displays "detecting" whenever you switch input and sometimes fails to detect anything.
I'm not getting any pops from the Arcam and the HDMI handshake issues are resolved by setting each input to HDMI, rather than having it scan all inputs every time you switch input device. It works well, unlike the Cyrus AV Master 8.0 which displays "detecting" whenever you switch input and sometimes fails to detect anything.
Edited by Zod on Monday 1st March 12:01
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