AV Receiver = good stereo? Advice please
Discussion
I have a 1080p Panasonic plasma that I originally bought just for movies: I have an HD DVD player and a Blu-ray player. However, I recently moved in with the missus and we now have Sky HD and we also want to buy a decent hifi. Obviously it makes sense to listen to my movies' soundtrack in better clarity now I have more space/better soundproofing than my last house. The benefits of having three devices into one box also is not lost on me.
Thing is, we both like good hifi and neither of us want 5.1. We probably have around £800 to spend in total. I know that historically AV receivers weren't great at stereo. Had a look around and for £400 you can buy a Denon 1910, which seems rather good as a receiver. It also seems to do volume correction which is a nice feature and I would really like. I had a demo in Richer Sounds with some Mordaunt Short Mezzo 2s and listened to it vs a Cambridge Audio 650v stereo amp and the difference wasn't as huge as I thought it may be with my iPod going through it. However, elsewhere I was recommended that the 2310 (£620ish) is vastly superior.
Are there any alternatives?
I'm not allergic to second hand kit either. Some people have grumbled about cheaper build quality, I don't know if this is true. Would I be better off getting an older second hand Yamaha that was originally 1k+? I only need 3 HDMI in, my BR player does upscaling more than well (so I don't really need that feature on the receiver), although I would like a decent compliment of Dolby compliance etc.
In terms of speakers I want to go and listen to some Focal 705s because our listening space will be 3x4m and they seem built for smaller rooms (but with no loss of clarity). I also trust Focal.
Any help greatly appreciated. Obviously I want to trust my ears for everything but it's a minefield getting things to work together!
Thing is, we both like good hifi and neither of us want 5.1. We probably have around £800 to spend in total. I know that historically AV receivers weren't great at stereo. Had a look around and for £400 you can buy a Denon 1910, which seems rather good as a receiver. It also seems to do volume correction which is a nice feature and I would really like. I had a demo in Richer Sounds with some Mordaunt Short Mezzo 2s and listened to it vs a Cambridge Audio 650v stereo amp and the difference wasn't as huge as I thought it may be with my iPod going through it. However, elsewhere I was recommended that the 2310 (£620ish) is vastly superior.
Are there any alternatives?
I'm not allergic to second hand kit either. Some people have grumbled about cheaper build quality, I don't know if this is true. Would I be better off getting an older second hand Yamaha that was originally 1k+? I only need 3 HDMI in, my BR player does upscaling more than well (so I don't really need that feature on the receiver), although I would like a decent compliment of Dolby compliance etc.
In terms of speakers I want to go and listen to some Focal 705s because our listening space will be 3x4m and they seem built for smaller rooms (but with no loss of clarity). I also trust Focal.
Any help greatly appreciated. Obviously I want to trust my ears for everything but it's a minefield getting things to work together!
I was just under the impression that connecting my BR, HD DVD *and* Sky HD to a stereo amp would be a nightmare. Or so I was led to believe - possibly incorrectly. Can you explain in even more layman's terms how I would do this and what kit I would need. I take it the DAC would decode Dolby etc. and make it all lovely for the stereo amp to transmit to the speakers?
Obviously I'd rather have just a stereo amp if I could get away with it, £500 buys you a lot of performance... (second hand Cyrus 6 series?)
Obviously I'd rather have just a stereo amp if I could get away with it, £500 buys you a lot of performance... (second hand Cyrus 6 series?)
If your really not bothered about surround sound then the only thing that the an HDMI receiver will give you over a stereo amp is picture switching (one HDMI cable to the TV and the audio and picture channel is selected on the receiver). With a stereo amp you would select the input on the TV and then select the audio input on the amp separately.
If you are ok with doing that, then I really do think a stereo amp will give you greater listening pleasure.
All digital sources have 'Digital to Analogue Converters' for outputting to the stereo out (which a stereo amp would need), but they are usually quite poor in the likes of DVD/Bluray players and Sky boxes etc. If you connect these units from their digital outputs to an external DAC, the sound going to your stereo amp is improved a hell of a lot.
The Cambridge Audio Dacmagic gets a lot of very good reviews, but I believe it only has two inputs. I guess your HD player won't get a lot of use so you could maybe connect that direct to the amp.
HTH
If you are ok with doing that, then I really do think a stereo amp will give you greater listening pleasure.
All digital sources have 'Digital to Analogue Converters' for outputting to the stereo out (which a stereo amp would need), but they are usually quite poor in the likes of DVD/Bluray players and Sky boxes etc. If you connect these units from their digital outputs to an external DAC, the sound going to your stereo amp is improved a hell of a lot.
The Cambridge Audio Dacmagic gets a lot of very good reviews, but I believe it only has two inputs. I guess your HD player won't get a lot of use so you could maybe connect that direct to the amp.
HTH
If you aren't averse to buying used, you could look for an Arcam AVR280 or AVR350 which gives all the digital connections (bar HDMI, but it will switch two HDMI inputs if that helps) that you might want, plus it has a good reputation for stereo performance. You might also be able to use the spare channels to biamp your left and right speakers (need to check that though).
However, I agree with the posts above that if you don't want 5.1, you may as well use a separate stereo amp instead as £400 will buy you a much better amp for music than an AV reciever would provide. Just to stay on the Arcam tack, you might find a used A22 or A32 around your budget. This page shows the list of discontinued Arcam products incase it's of interest:
http://www.arcam.co.uk/advice-and-support/disconti...
However, I agree with the posts above that if you don't want 5.1, you may as well use a separate stereo amp instead as £400 will buy you a much better amp for music than an AV reciever would provide. Just to stay on the Arcam tack, you might find a used A22 or A32 around your budget. This page shows the list of discontinued Arcam products incase it's of interest:
http://www.arcam.co.uk/advice-and-support/disconti...
Plotloss said:
All your sources have Stereo RCA outputs (in all probability).
You'll only be able to amplify two channels so why feed it anything more?
Using an offboard DAC will harmonise the sound across the sources to an extent but there is a connection option straight off the bat.
Finally, a guru who agrees with my POV You'll only be able to amplify two channels so why feed it anything more?
Using an offboard DAC will harmonise the sound across the sources to an extent but there is a connection option straight off the bat.
Either RCA from each device to the amp, or simply RCA from the TV's stereo outputs to the amp. Works very well in my limited experience - my FIL has his TV connected to his (albeit fairly high end) stereo setup and the soundstage is easily better than any 5.1 I've heard yet.
Excellent, that's what I wanted to hear. I take it there is no difference whether I do it from the TV or from the device itself? Would the TV process it and make it worse or?... I mean I know I won't be able to get HD audio but I don't think that matters?
I think buying a DAC may be a really good idea as most of my music is on my iPod, so I imagine it'll clean up some of the poorer stuff. The Cambridge Audio one is £230ish, any more I should look at? Do any of them decode DD, DTS, etc.?
I think buying a DAC may be a really good idea as most of my music is on my iPod, so I imagine it'll clean up some of the poorer stuff. The Cambridge Audio one is £230ish, any more I should look at? Do any of them decode DD, DTS, etc.?
The Cambridge Dac is good for connecting to a computer with USB, but not an Ipod, that doesn't have a conventional digital output.
It sounds good for the money, difficult to beat BUT, it only has 2 inputs and a USB, no remote control, so isn't going to be a major solution for you.
I would have thought a good conventional line level integrated amp would work, from Arcam. Mission, Cambridge or the like.
Koenig
It sounds good for the money, difficult to beat BUT, it only has 2 inputs and a USB, no remote control, so isn't going to be a major solution for you.
I would have thought a good conventional line level integrated amp would work, from Arcam. Mission, Cambridge or the like.
Koenig
LongLiveTazio said:
Excellent, that's what I wanted to hear. I take it there is no difference whether I do it from the TV or from the device itself? Would the TV process it and make it worse or?... I mean I know I won't be able to get HD audio but I don't think that matters?
I'd connect direct from the devices; it will sound better and you'd be able to listen to music while the TV is off. Also, sometimes the TV will slow the sound down a bit and you may find slight lip syncing problems if connected through it first.LongLiveTazio said:
I think buying a DAC may be a really good idea as most of my music is on my iPod, so I imagine it'll clean up some of the poorer stuff. The Cambridge Audio one is £230ish, any more I should look at? Do any of them decode DD, DTS, etc.?
iPods are a PITA to get the best out of. I don't know the dock market very well, but there is an Onkyo NDS1 dock that takes the sound digitally and passes it through to it's digital output which you can then send to a DAC. It's about £130 though so it all adds up.Is your computer anywhere near to where your system will be?
LongLiveTazio said:
Near-ish, I'm typing to you from a laptop.
If I were to buy a 'conventional line level integrated amp' I take it I'd just connect via normal stereo cables?
Yes, you could do that; if you get the Cambridge DAC, you could connect your laptop to it via a USB cable (digitally) and enjoy you iTunes music that way rather than from your iPod. If I were to buy a 'conventional line level integrated amp' I take it I'd just connect via normal stereo cables?
parapaul said:
Plotloss said:
All your sources have Stereo RCA outputs (in all probability).
You'll only be able to amplify two channels so why feed it anything more?
Using an offboard DAC will harmonise the sound across the sources to an extent but there is a connection option straight off the bat.
Finally, a guru who agrees with my POV You'll only be able to amplify two channels so why feed it anything more?
Using an offboard DAC will harmonise the sound across the sources to an extent but there is a connection option straight off the bat.
Either RCA from each device to the amp, or simply RCA from the TV's stereo outputs to the amp. Works very well in my limited experience - my FIL has his TV connected to his (albeit fairly high end) stereo setup and the soundstage is easily better than any 5.1 I've heard yet.
ukwill said:
parapaul said:
Plotloss said:
All your sources have Stereo RCA outputs (in all probability).
You'll only be able to amplify two channels so why feed it anything more?
Using an offboard DAC will harmonise the sound across the sources to an extent but there is a connection option straight off the bat.
Finally, a guru who agrees with my POV You'll only be able to amplify two channels so why feed it anything more?
Using an offboard DAC will harmonise the sound across the sources to an extent but there is a connection option straight off the bat.
Either RCA from each device to the amp, or simply RCA from the TV's stereo outputs to the amp. Works very well in my limited experience - my FIL has his TV connected to his (albeit fairly high end) stereo setup and the soundstage is easily better than any 5.1 I've heard yet.
Only really gets used for films he really wants to watch - it is primarily a stereo system after all. He was showing off the other day, trying to persuade me not to get the 5.1 system I'm planning. Kung Fu Panda happened to be on Sky Movies Somethingorother and I was absolutely stunned to hear the sound move around the room the way it did. Not just left/right, but with real depth.
As I can't afford to spend upwards of £3k on a pair of speakers, I'll stick with my 5.1 plans
I've been toying with upgrading my 8 year old sony amp but the only benefit I think I'll really get is HDMI inputs. 5.1 gives great surround sound and I wouldn't want to go to 7.1 as my fish tank sits where one of the speakers would need to be.
It gets constant use though unlike the speakers in my tv, I've not used them apart from when I 1st switched the tv on and they sounded woeful.
It gets constant use though unlike the speakers in my tv, I've not used them apart from when I 1st switched the tv on and they sounded woeful.
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