Watchdog 12/06/2013 - feature on N47 BMW engine

[garos]

By all accounts the trouble with this diesel block and its timing chain issue is being featured tonight.

[funkyrobot]

It's a good job BMW have a strong brand. This and the security issue cannot be good for business.

[fatboy b]

Looks like they're about to get a slating.

£10k to fix a problem?!!!

[fatboy b]

Oh dear. Looks like the cost consultants are getting a grip at BMW.

[Adrian W]

This item pissed me off, 100k cars with dodgy history and the timing chain fails, all seemed like sensationalist rubbish, I'm sure people could wheel out experts to say their expert was talking rubbish.

If I was BMW I'd be telling people to ps off.

[MG CHRIS]

Adrian W said:

This item pissed me off, 100k cars with dodgy history and the timing chain fails, all seemed like sensationalist rubbish, I'm sure people could wheel out experts to say their expert was talking rubbish.

If I was BMW I'd be telling people to ps off.

Um take time to read up on the engine design and problems it's a bad engine a lot of owners have suffered the same problem even 2-3 years old cars that have done less than 30k miles. A design that to replace the chain requires the engine to be taken out and it is meant to be a non serviceable item last the life of the car. Poor form from bmw.

[Adrian W]

MG CHRIS said:

Adrian W said:

This item pissed me off, 100k cars with dodgy history and the timing chain fails, all seemed like sensationalist rubbish, I'm sure people could wheel out experts to say their expert was talking rubbish.

If I was BMW I'd be telling people to ps off.

Um take time to read up on the engine design and problems it's a bad engine a lot of owners have suffered the same problem even 2-3 years old cars that have done less than 30k miles. A design that to replace the chain requires the engine to be taken out and it is meant to be a non serviceable item last the life of the car. Poor form from bmw.

None of the examples on the show were young cars, there are lots of cars out there of different manufacture where hydraulic tensioners fail causing cam chains to fail, if it's a known fault then it's buyer beware.

[Eric Mc]

Known to whom? BMW?

[MG CHRIS]

Adrian W said:

MG CHRIS said:

Adrian W said:

This item pissed me off, 100k cars with dodgy history and the timing chain fails, all seemed like sensationalist rubbish, I'm sure people could wheel out experts to say their expert was talking rubbish.

If I was BMW I'd be telling people to ps off.

Um take time to read up on the engine design and problems it's a bad engine a lot of owners have suffered the same problem even 2-3 years old cars that have done less than 30k miles. A design that to replace the chain requires the engine to be taken out and it is meant to be a non serviceable item last the life of the car. Poor form from bmw.

None of the examples on the show were young cars, there are lots of cars out there of different manufacture where hydraulic tensioners fail causing cam chains to fail, if it's a known fault then it's buyer beware.

True the report did show older cars but plenty of people have had this on very new cars less than 3 years old with full bmw service history. Even then there is a battle to get bmw to pay even though there is a known fault with the engine, if the manufacture knows of a problem effecting even new cars then surely the manufacture should fix the problem.
It was exactly the same with the new mini with pas pump failure resulting in the steering to lock up again bmw wouldn't recognise there was a problem.

[BliarOut]

Adrian W said:

This item pissed me off, 100k cars with dodgy history and the timing chain fails, all seemed like sensationalist rubbish, I'm sure people could wheel out experts to say their expert was talking rubbish.

If I was BMW I'd be telling people to ps off.

Where does the timing chain feature in the service schedule?

[ndj]

BliarOut said:

Where does the timing chain feature in the service schedule?

100% the point ^^^^^

[Adrian W]

ndj said:

BliarOut said:

Where does the timing chain feature in the service schedule?

100% the point ^^^^^

Where do most part that fail in engines feature in the service schedule?

Big end shells for example

[98elise]

Adrian W said:

ndj said:

BliarOut said:

Where does the timing chain feature in the service schedule?

100% the point ^^^^^

Where do most part that fail in engines feature in the service schedule?

Big end shells for example

Yup, head gasket went on my 50k elise, and its a well known issue and there is no service that includes the head gasket. Can I sue lotus?

[Slobberchops]

Mine had to have this sorted at 18k and then around 36k miles. Noise started occurring around 55k again.

[marcosgt]

Slobberchops said:

Mine had to have this sorted at 18k and then around 36k miles. Noise started occurring around 55k again.

Good job you bought a good reliable car then... It's funny how cars get a dreadful reputation. I paid £3k for a full rebuild on my RX8 engine last year, but it seems people are spending much more on BMWs and yet the RX8 is, apparently, a disaster and the BMWs are a paragon of reliability...

How widespread is this problem, though? Is it a faulty batch of tensioners (or whatever) or is it an across the board design fault that occurs on models from all years? I must admit, the design with a timing chain at the back of the engine did seem a bit strange.

M

[funkyrobot]

marcosgt said:

Slobberchops said:

Mine had to have this sorted at 18k and then around 36k miles. Noise started occurring around 55k again.

Good job you bought a good reliable car then... It's funny how cars get a dreadful reputation. I paid £3k for a full rebuild on my RX8 engine last year, but it seems people are spending much more on BMWs and yet the RX8 is, apparently, a disaster and the BMWs are a paragon of reliability...

How widespread is this problem, though? Is it a faulty batch of tensioners (or whatever) or is it an across the board design fault that occurs on models from all years? I must admit, the design with a timing chain at the back of the engine did seem a bit strange.

M

It's interesting how making plush car interiors can lead people to believe that they are buying something that is of high quality. Most German brands do this now (VW, Audi, BMW etc) and people seem to think that they are more reliable than other brands.

Had a chat about cars to someone the other day. She said that her husband will only buy German cars as you can't beat 'proper, German reliability'. I started to mention some of the stuff seen on here and other forums, but thought it better to keep my mouth shut.

Anyway, German brands seem to be good at something - totally deflecting the truth about their cars.

[ndj]

98elise said:

Adrian W said:

ndj said:

BliarOut said:

Where does the timing chain feature in the service schedule?

100% the point ^^^^^

Where do most part that fail in engines feature in the service schedule?

Big end shells for example

Yup, head gasket went on my 50k elise, and its a well known issue and there is no service that includes the head gasket. Can I sue lotus?

Shells and gaskets are sacrificial parts, with failure typically caused by poor maintenance or abuse. A timing chain isn't.

Edited by ndj on Thursday 13th June 10:26

[garos]

marcosgt said:

Slobberchops said:

Mine had to have this sorted at 18k and then around 36k miles. Noise started occurring around 55k again.

Good job you bought a good reliable car then... It's funny how cars get a dreadful reputation. I paid £3k for a full rebuild on my RX8 engine last year, but it seems people are spending much more on BMWs and yet the RX8 is, apparently, a disaster and the BMWs are a paragon of reliability...

How widespread is this problem, though? Is it a faulty batch of tensioners (or whatever) or is it an across the board design fault that occurs on models from all years? I must admit, the design with a timing chain at the back of the engine did seem a bit strange.

M

No one seems to know, of course thousands of cars have the engine but the % affected isn't known. However, BM forums seem to suggest its not an infrequent failure.

Also seems BM now have a design fix, even though they don't recognise that the N47 has a design flaw.

Its also now being reported that some new F20s are having issues with chains, young cars with little mieage.
Its not right but I suppose the best way round this is to not buy a BM diesel or if you must buy a fully warrantied AUC car, whether within 3 years or extended.

[funkyrobot]

garos said:

marcosgt said:

Slobberchops said:

Mine had to have this sorted at 18k and then around 36k miles. Noise started occurring around 55k again.

Good job you bought a good reliable car then... It's funny how cars get a dreadful reputation. I paid £3k for a full rebuild on my RX8 engine last year, but it seems people are spending much more on BMWs and yet the RX8 is, apparently, a disaster and the BMWs are a paragon of reliability...

How widespread is this problem, though? Is it a faulty batch of tensioners (or whatever) or is it an across the board design fault that occurs on models from all years? I must admit, the design with a timing chain at the back of the engine did seem a bit strange.

M

No one seems to know, of course thousands of cars have the engine but the % affected isn't known. However, BM forums seem to suggest its not an infrequent failure.

Also seems BM now have a design fix, even though they don't recognise that the N47 has a design flaw.

Its also now being reported that some new F20s are having issues with chains, young cars with little mieage.
Its not right but I suppose the best way round this is to not buy a BM diesel or if you must buy a fully warrantied AUC car, whether within 3 years or extended.

If I was going to buy a new(ish) BMW, I would make sure it had a warranty.

[Slobberchops]

marcosgt said:

Good job you bought a good reliable car then... It's funny how cars get a dreadful reputation. I paid £3k for a full rebuild on my RX8 engine last year, but it seems people are spending much more on BMWs and yet the RX8 is, apparently, a disaster and the BMWs are a paragon of

M

Luckily it was a company car.