Dragons Den - Missed Opportunities

[tighnamara]

Interesting article in the business part of the local paper today where Brewdog got through the initial application and screening process but didn’t get to present to the Dragons.

Brewdog were at the time looking for £100,000 investment for 20% of the company back in 2009.
Value of that investment today would be £360m, with the company being valued at £1.8bn. Would have been quite a return for any Dragon.

The company has grown from strength to strength with some quirky and great marketing, would the Dragons have made any difference to their success ?

Any other known missed opportunities out there that never made it to the Dragons or that the Dragons didn’t see as an investment in but company went on to be a great success.

[Mr-B]

Wow if those numbers are right I doubt there would any other misses that come close to that!! Gutted would totally inadequate to describe how any dragon would have felt missing that one.

[Butter Face]

Are those figures right though? They haven’t had to raise more capital therefore diluting the shares since the first time looking for cash?

Don’t get me wrong, I bet they’ve still missed out on a fortune!

[tighnamara]

Butter Face said:

Are those figures right though? They haven’t had to raise more capital therefore diluting the shares since the first time looking for cash?

Don’t get me wrong, I bet they’ve still missed out on a fortune!

Not sure, just taking figures from article.

[Z4monster]

tighnamara said:

Butter Face said:

Are those figures right though? They haven’t had to raise more capital therefore diluting the shares since the first time looking for cash?

Don’t get me wrong, I bet they’ve still missed out on a fortune!

Not sure, just taking figures from article.

They subdivided their shares in 2017
Quoted shares issued: A Ordinary shares: 50,954,050 B Ordinary shares 11,786,830

[sc0tt]

Still 180m then unless i’m thick?

[Superhoop]

They turned down the Tangle Teezer and the Trunki

Both have been pretty successful

[andy_s]

It's interesting to think that they maybe wouldn't have had the success they had if they'd been paired with someone more conventional and 'mainstream business'.

[Second Best]

Didn't Dragons Den turn down the guy who developed those floaty things that you find on every boat key? Not exactly a small market.

Similarly, the disposable glass of wine you find in every M&S, Waitrose, and any intercity train was also given the stcan by the Den.

[NewChurch]

Hindsight, they have probably had 10's of thousands of applications and the dragons themselves witnessed hundreds not broadcast. The probability of great investments slipping through is 100%.

[fridaypassion]

Apparently a lot of the "investments" they do back don't get through due dil.

I think the only real value is going on to get the publicity but not taking the investment.

I think you can be reasonably confident that the deals are probably worked out in advance it being a TV show and all. I would imagine it's totally scripted and filmed in a similar way to Xfactor and the like where the outcome is not as random as you may think.

[StevieBee]

fridaypassion said:

I think you can be reasonably confident that the deals are probably worked out in advance it being a TV show and all. I would imagine it's totally scripted and filmed in a similar way to Xfactor and the like where the outcome is not as random as you may think.

Nope. It is pretty much as you see it. No script - although usual editing tricks can convey a slightly different view of the reality.

The only off-screen caveat is that the deals made on screen are not binding and subject to later negotiation.

My sister company did some work for the husband/wife duo behind that beach towel that was also a beach gown (Itsa). The Dragons turned that down - rightly so as it happens. Did go onto to do quite well but not to the levels that would have interested them.

[Mafffew]

andy_s said:

It's interesting to think that they maybe wouldn't have had the success they had if they'd been paired with someone more conventional and 'mainstream business'.

Indeed, did the Dragons miss a chance or did the Brewdog chaps dodge a bullet?

[Jambo85]

Butter Face said:

Are those figures right though? They haven’t had to raise more capital therefore diluting the shares since the first time looking for cash?

Don’t get me wrong, I bet they’ve still missed out on a fortune!

Agree with what you're saying here - they definitely missed out but BD's own made up valuation is likely a bit optimistic, and if they were to float today the value would surely decrease significantly (perhaps why they keep delaying it).

In fact they have raised more capital a few times - there's one going on just now - but they somehow value the company upwards in this process rather than diluting as would happen with a "normal" company going to the market.

[xjay1337]

fridaypassion said:

Apparently a lot of the "investments" they do back don't get through due dil.

I think the only real value is going on to get the publicity but not taking the investment.

I think you can be reasonably confident that the deals are probably worked out in advance it being a TV show and all. I would imagine it's totally scripted and filmed in a similar way to Xfactor and the like where the outcome is not as random as you may think.

I wonder of those that do go on to be successful, for example that Levi Roots sauce, that's everywhere, I'm sure they make a killing.

[Shakermaker]

A business that wanted investment and didn't get it, but still went on to do well, probably didn't need the input of DD to make it a success for anything other than finance. The people behind the business will make it a success or not, and so if they can get the money to invest in what they need, convince a regular lender perhaps, without the need to give away any equity, then they'll still make it a success.

[droopsnoot]

I'm sure there has been at least one "what happened next?" programme that showed some of the ones that got away as well as some of those that didn't, the Trunki being one of them that I remember. I haven't watched it for some time, it got a bit too X-Factor for me, with dragons competing as to who could be the most rude blunt and get away with it.

[StevieBee]

Shakermaker said:

A business that wanted investment and didn't get it, but still went on to do well, probably didn't need the input of DD to make it a success for anything other than finance. The people behind the business will make it a success or not, and so if they can get the money to invest in what they need, convince a regular lender perhaps, without the need to give away any equity, then they'll still make it a success.

One of the trends that emerged almost from the first series was that the business that were successful in getting backing were those that needed the Dragons more for their connections and expertise rather than money and also those that had a clear exit plan.

[Shakermaker]

StevieBee said:

Shakermaker said:

A business that wanted investment and didn't get it, but still went on to do well, probably didn't need the input of DD to make it a success for anything other than finance. The people behind the business will make it a success or not, and so if they can get the money to invest in what they need, convince a regular lender perhaps, without the need to give away any equity, then they'll still make it a success.

One of the trends that emerged almost from the first series was that the business that were successful in getting backing were those that needed the Dragons more for their connections and expertise rather than money and also those that had a clear exit plan.

Indeed. Clearly these are the businesses where the Dragons can see not only the potential in the business, but in getting the prospector to be moulded into making it more successful, to better turn their investment into more money.

Investing in BrewDog, maybe the Dragons didn't think they could get the people to be moved in their ways enough to make the return worthwhile?

[thepawbroon]

A friend from back home was on and was turned down.

Their business is doing well, not quite Brewdog levels of growth but pretty good considering the sector.

Back when BA gave you tea and a snack for free, I used to occasionally fly over Mull on the way to Houston, nibbling on an Island Bakery lemon melt.

http://www.bqlive.co.uk/scotland/2017/12/12/news/a...