Woke TV Drama - I'm owt
Discussion
Now let me say from the get go that isn’t meant to be an ‘ist’ post, although in the current climate many could choose to see it as that. My ‘beef’ in this post is the extreme Woke agenda now infecting our TV dramas, and particularly ITV. For years, any BBC drama has always followed the Woke/PC agenda of having X% of the cast as Black or Asian (particularly Black over other minorities). So no matter how improbable the scenario, or setting, someone looking at our contemporary TV drama output as a way to understand our society would conclude that the UK was 30-40% Black/BAME, whereas in fact, it is around 15%.
What does this matter? It matters because our TV drama is now a vehicle for political and ideological indoctrination of the masses, to reinforce a narrative supported by the likes of BLM, cancel culture and Critical Race Theory, almost trying to eclipse the ‘Anglo-Saxon/Celtic’ heritage of the vast majority of our society, and in its place create this façade of a shallow alphabet soup of multi-racial and multi-cultural identity that supports the agenda of our Woke media, political and professional classes, not the reality experienced still by the majority of the population in their day to day lives.
This all came to the fore with me when I sat down yesterday to see a recording of the latest ITV drama called ‘Finding Alice’, it had as great cast and looked really promising, then the ‘BBC Woke’ card started to show itself, even though the setting seemed to be a very rural and provincial part if mid-England – the assistant to the dead husband, BAME, the mortuary manager (with a probable romantic interest) (BAME), one of the two police visiting the house when the husband died (BAME), the police inspector (BAME), the husband’s business partner (BAME), by this time I’d had enough. Then I had the misfortune to watch Emmerdale last week (briefly) for the first time in years, this time a village in rural Yorkshire that must be at least 60% BAME based on the characters I saw.
Nothing whatsoever against BAME characters, or Black actors being included in anything, but this is now being fused with political Wokism promoting that agenda, in the same way Goebbels promoted the blonde Arian ideal in Nazi propaganda, or British propaganda in WW2 promoted an arcadian ideal of Britain at odds with the squalor, poverty of class divisions actually in society of that time.
We are also seeing this agenda in ITV entertainment shows, it really feels that ITV is late to the Woke Party and is on overdrive now to catch-up with the BBC. We will all suffer because of this, it means drama is no-longer art, but a vehicle for political propaganda, and that takes away a huge chunk of that TV drama has meant to many of us that have enjoyed it. Would dramas like Morse, The Sweeney, Brideshead Revisited (or even Downton Abbey) still be made today, not sure, but if so, certainly not to the standard it was because drama now has to tickbox first and entertain later.
I hope this makes sense, and clearly distinguishes between having BAME actors given great roles, to be free to do so, versus a propaganda agenda that seeks to distort and alter the reality of our society to suit a narrative de jour.
Thoughts?
What does this matter? It matters because our TV drama is now a vehicle for political and ideological indoctrination of the masses, to reinforce a narrative supported by the likes of BLM, cancel culture and Critical Race Theory, almost trying to eclipse the ‘Anglo-Saxon/Celtic’ heritage of the vast majority of our society, and in its place create this façade of a shallow alphabet soup of multi-racial and multi-cultural identity that supports the agenda of our Woke media, political and professional classes, not the reality experienced still by the majority of the population in their day to day lives.
This all came to the fore with me when I sat down yesterday to see a recording of the latest ITV drama called ‘Finding Alice’, it had as great cast and looked really promising, then the ‘BBC Woke’ card started to show itself, even though the setting seemed to be a very rural and provincial part if mid-England – the assistant to the dead husband, BAME, the mortuary manager (with a probable romantic interest) (BAME), one of the two police visiting the house when the husband died (BAME), the police inspector (BAME), the husband’s business partner (BAME), by this time I’d had enough. Then I had the misfortune to watch Emmerdale last week (briefly) for the first time in years, this time a village in rural Yorkshire that must be at least 60% BAME based on the characters I saw.
Nothing whatsoever against BAME characters, or Black actors being included in anything, but this is now being fused with political Wokism promoting that agenda, in the same way Goebbels promoted the blonde Arian ideal in Nazi propaganda, or British propaganda in WW2 promoted an arcadian ideal of Britain at odds with the squalor, poverty of class divisions actually in society of that time.
We are also seeing this agenda in ITV entertainment shows, it really feels that ITV is late to the Woke Party and is on overdrive now to catch-up with the BBC. We will all suffer because of this, it means drama is no-longer art, but a vehicle for political propaganda, and that takes away a huge chunk of that TV drama has meant to many of us that have enjoyed it. Would dramas like Morse, The Sweeney, Brideshead Revisited (or even Downton Abbey) still be made today, not sure, but if so, certainly not to the standard it was because drama now has to tickbox first and entertain later.
I hope this makes sense, and clearly distinguishes between having BAME actors given great roles, to be free to do so, versus a propaganda agenda that seeks to distort and alter the reality of our society to suit a narrative de jour.
Thoughts?
Blue One said:
Nothing whatsoever against BAME characters, or Black actors being included in anything, but this is now being fused with political Wokism promoting that agenda, in the same way Goebbels promoted the blonde Arian ideal in Nazi propaganda, or British propaganda in WW2 promoted an arcadian ideal of Britain at odds with the squalor, poverty of class divisions actually in society of that time.
Seems a bit of a stretch. Promoting an apparently disadvantaged group is like promoting a master race?
I don’t normally notice this but did see that my wife was watching a period drama the other day that had a black lord of the manor in his stately home. It just stood out to me as unrealistic. Normally wouldn’t have noticed though if it was a modern drama, that one just stood out to me. If the people watching it don’t notice or care though then it isn’t an issue. As far as I’m aware the actor was doing just as good a job as anyone would.
Douglas Quaid said:
I don’t normally notice this but did see that my wife was watching a period drama the other day that had a black lord of the manor in his stately home. It just stood out to me as unrealistic. Normally wouldn’t have noticed though if it was a modern drama, that one just stood out to me. If the people watching it don’t notice or care though then it isn’t an issue. As far as I’m aware the actor was doing just as good a job as anyone would.
I think it depends on what kind of accuracy the viewer expects in the drama. If a period drama is covering historic events and portrays white people as black, that’s very different from something like a story set in the olden days having more black people in it.
There’s a thread on here where posters are complaining about wokeness in the fictional series set in 18c Russia “The Great” https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2235759/ as there’s loads of BAME actors in it.
It must be one of the least pc period dramas i’ve seen in a while and it’s definitely not an example of pc gone mad.
To one of the posters - as I said I am trying to be very clear to differentiate between BAME actors and the agenda behind trying to promote a certain agenda/societal view it wants to inpose. Maybe I have been clumsy in how this has been stated, but I think I have laid out my thoughts as I see them.
If this get’s a roasting on here fair enough - debate is all about an exchange of ideas and observations to reach an informed position. Something that regrettably seems to be getting harder and harder to achieve with the extreme polarisation in viewpoints on almost anything in the current climate.
If this get’s a roasting on here fair enough - debate is all about an exchange of ideas and observations to reach an informed position. Something that regrettably seems to be getting harder and harder to achieve with the extreme polarisation in viewpoints on almost anything in the current climate.
Obsessing over identities is killing entertainment too, a while ago we watched two episodes of live at the Apollo, and I registered 2 things,
1. I'd barely laughed at all.
2. I'd not seen one straight white male.
How far do you have to go out of your way to do this, I dunno, but I haven't bothered watching it since.
And FWIW we've paid our hard earnt $ to go and see black and female and gay comedians on tour so there's no prejudice, except against the unfunny.
Its counter to the cause* because some of my favourite artists, people I adore, happen to be black/female/gay etc, all in one in the case of skin, and its something I've never thought to think about in the past, but today with anything new you can't help but be cynical.
Unless of course, the cause* is division.
1. I'd barely laughed at all.
2. I'd not seen one straight white male.
How far do you have to go out of your way to do this, I dunno, but I haven't bothered watching it since.
And FWIW we've paid our hard earnt $ to go and see black and female and gay comedians on tour so there's no prejudice, except against the unfunny.
Its counter to the cause* because some of my favourite artists, people I adore, happen to be black/female/gay etc, all in one in the case of skin, and its something I've never thought to think about in the past, but today with anything new you can't help but be cynical.
Unless of course, the cause* is division.
I work with a whole bunch of different BAME people every day, so I'm pretty colour/background blind to people doing a variety of jobs at a variety of levels.
I personally don't find the number of BAME actors/characters in most TV programmes a problem, but then I don't sit and count them either, they are just people on the screen and either good actors or not.
I watched Hamilton on Disney+ last night and the fact that a bunch of white guys were played by black actors made no jot of difference to the show. (*1)
Interestingly, I love and watch a whole bunch of old British TV shows, and BAME actors are very noticeable by their absence, unless of course a drug dealer/user is required to be 'nicked', or a corner shop owner needs to be robbed to further the plot. So, on the whole, I think that the use of BAME actors in TV not a problem...
(*1) I think historical dramas are the only TV whereby BAME may stand out and be 'wrong', but I think there have been a few colourblind shows recently that have been a great success and have actually brought a creative improvement to the shows - Hamilton and 'The personal history of David Copperfield' being the highlights....
I personally don't find the number of BAME actors/characters in most TV programmes a problem, but then I don't sit and count them either, they are just people on the screen and either good actors or not.
I watched Hamilton on Disney+ last night and the fact that a bunch of white guys were played by black actors made no jot of difference to the show. (*1)
Interestingly, I love and watch a whole bunch of old British TV shows, and BAME actors are very noticeable by their absence, unless of course a drug dealer/user is required to be 'nicked', or a corner shop owner needs to be robbed to further the plot. So, on the whole, I think that the use of BAME actors in TV not a problem...
(*1) I think historical dramas are the only TV whereby BAME may stand out and be 'wrong', but I think there have been a few colourblind shows recently that have been a great success and have actually brought a creative improvement to the shows - Hamilton and 'The personal history of David Copperfield' being the highlights....
Teddy Lop said:
Obsessing over identities is killing entertainment too, a while ago we watched two episodes of live at the Apollo, and I registered 2 things,
1. I'd barely laughed at all.
2. I'd not seen one straight white male.
How far do you have to go out of your way to do this, I dunno, but I haven't bothered watching it since.
And FWIW we've paid our hard earnt $ to go and see black and female and gay comedians on tour so there's no prejudice, except against the unfunny.
Its counter to the cause* because some of my favourite artists, people I adore, happen to be black/female/gay etc, all in one in the case of skin, and its something I've never thought to think about in the past, but today with anything new you can't help but be cynical.
Unless of course, the cause* is division.
IIRC isn’t there one presenter and two comedians on LATO?1. I'd barely laughed at all.
2. I'd not seen one straight white male.
How far do you have to go out of your way to do this, I dunno, but I haven't bothered watching it since.
And FWIW we've paid our hard earnt $ to go and see black and female and gay comedians on tour so there's no prejudice, except against the unfunny.
Its counter to the cause* because some of my favourite artists, people I adore, happen to be black/female/gay etc, all in one in the case of skin, and its something I've never thought to think about in the past, but today with anything new you can't help but be cynical.
Unless of course, the cause* is division.
So this sample size where you hadn’t seen a straight white man is 6 people?
How funny (or not) is a separate matter.
The Rotrex Kid said:
IIRC isn’t there one presenter and two comedians on LATO?
So this sample size where you hadn’t seen a straight white man is 6 people?
How funny (or not) is a separate matter.
3 guests so 8.So this sample size where you hadn’t seen a straight white man is 6 people?
How funny (or not) is a separate matter.
But in a country predominately white and a industry predominantly male, the chances of it being chance are pretty slim, like rolling a dice 8 times and getting 6 8 times.
El stovey said:
Douglas Quaid said:
I don’t normally notice this but did see that my wife was watching a period drama the other day that had a black lord of the manor in his stately home. It just stood out to me as unrealistic. Normally wouldn’t have noticed though if it was a modern drama, that one just stood out to me. If the people watching it don’t notice or care though then it isn’t an issue. As far as I’m aware the actor was doing just as good a job as anyone would.
I think it depends on what kind of accuracy the viewer expects in the drama. If a period drama is covering historic events and portrays white people as black, that’s very different from something like a story set in the olden days having more black people in it.
There’s a thread on here where posters are complaining about wokeness in the fictional series set in 18c Russia “The Great” https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2235759/ as there’s loads of BAME actors in it.
It must be one of the least pc period dramas i’ve seen in a while and it’s definitely not an example of pc gone mad.
I agree with all the OP says, especially the bit about debate. Simply claiming something or someone is racist, to some people is the winning card, you're wrong, go back to the sixties you ape.
The race-politicisation of drama (and adverts) is ridiculous. As Denzel Washington says, he won two Oscars, how did that happen? If you're good enough, you 'll succeed. Quotas based on race is unnecessary, nor is it "right" at the moment - where are all the Chinese/Japanese/Korean actors on TV?
I started watching 'Finding Alice' and soon lost interest, despite the house used being only a couple of miles from where I used to live. The use of BAME actors was the least of the issues which rankled with me. In that area it is possible, but not probable they would make up that proportion of those concerned.
The total absurdity of the whole story and the lack of empathy I could muster for any of the characters had a far greater impact. My parents built their own house, so the idea of the family moving into a self-build and not already being familiar with it was just too far fetched for me.
Sex Education on Netflix was the one that seemed to take the multicuturalism to ridiculous extremes. Being set in the Wye Valley made it even more farcical. The fact that everyone drove cars from the last century, yet had modern phones just made it bizarre, was probably saying the cars are atypical, so why should the actors have to be?
One way to look at it is that actors are just actors; they are playing the part of someone else. Why should the actor's ethic origin have anything to do with it? We had nativity plays at school despite not a single child being of evidently Middle Eastern origin after all.
The total absurdity of the whole story and the lack of empathy I could muster for any of the characters had a far greater impact. My parents built their own house, so the idea of the family moving into a self-build and not already being familiar with it was just too far fetched for me.
Sex Education on Netflix was the one that seemed to take the multicuturalism to ridiculous extremes. Being set in the Wye Valley made it even more farcical. The fact that everyone drove cars from the last century, yet had modern phones just made it bizarre, was probably saying the cars are atypical, so why should the actors have to be?
One way to look at it is that actors are just actors; they are playing the part of someone else. Why should the actor's ethic origin have anything to do with it? We had nativity plays at school despite not a single child being of evidently Middle Eastern origin after all.
Edited by GliderRider on Sunday 7th February 12:10
Teddy Lop said:
The Rotrex Kid said:
IIRC isn’t there one presenter and two comedians on LATO?
So this sample size where you hadn’t seen a straight white man is 6 people?
How funny (or not) is a separate matter.
3 guests so 8.So this sample size where you hadn’t seen a straight white man is 6 people?
How funny (or not) is a separate matter.
But in a country predominately white and a industry predominantly male, the chances of it being chance are pretty slim, like rolling a dice 8 times and getting 6 8 times.
Live at the Apollo is pretty much always the host and two comedians. It's very rarely three.
I do find it simplifies things for the viewer when watching a whodunnit.
The cast will be full of various oppressed minority actors, who by definition can't be baddies.
Therefore the viewer is left with a choice of perhaps two straight, white, able-bodied, middle class actors to decide upon who is the killer.
The cast will be full of various oppressed minority actors, who by definition can't be baddies.
Therefore the viewer is left with a choice of perhaps two straight, white, able-bodied, middle class actors to decide upon who is the killer.
Douglas Quaid said:
I don’t normally notice this but did see that my wife was watching a period drama the other day that had a black lord of the manor in his stately home. It just stood out to me as unrealistic. Normally wouldn’t have noticed though if it was a modern drama, that one just stood out to me. If the people watching it don’t notice or care though then it isn’t an issue. As far as I’m aware the actor was doing just as good a job as anyone would.
Sounds like Bridgerton. Which is based on Julia Quinn’s novels but this Netflix version was written to be an alternative history where people of colour are part of Regency high society. This is the thing about drama: it doesn’t have to be historically accurate. It doesn’t have to have actors saying and doing the exact things that happened in real life. It doesn’t even have to be limited to any particular time, place or story. Sometimes it’s interesting to have stories where things are different to what you expect.
It doesn’t worry me from an historic POV but this kind of positive discrimination is definitely disadvantaging non BAME actors and performers. It’s even worse with kids parts in tv, film, plays and musicals.
Great if you’re a BAME actor or performer though.
Unfortunately when it becomes so prevalent it leads to many people thinking that BAME actors and performers are getting roles due to tokenism and quotas rather than ability.
Great if you’re a BAME actor or performer though.
Unfortunately when it becomes so prevalent it leads to many people thinking that BAME actors and performers are getting roles due to tokenism and quotas rather than ability.
Johnnytheboy said:
I do find it simplifies things for the viewer when watching a whodunnit.
The cast will be full of various oppressed minority actors, who by definition can't be baddies.
Therefore the viewer is left with a choice of perhaps two straight, white, able-bodied, middle class actors to decide upon who is the killer.
The cast will be full of various oppressed minority actors, who by definition can't be baddies.
Therefore the viewer is left with a choice of perhaps two straight, white, able-bodied, middle class actors to decide upon who is the killer.
In American films it’s often the British guy.
Driver101 said:
Who were these unfunny comedians? What episode was it?
Live at the Apollo is pretty much always the host and two comedians. It's very rarely three.
you could be right, TBH I didn't make notes.Live at the Apollo is pretty much always the host and two comedians. It's very rarely three.
The important point I was making is the takeaway, that the effect of promoting identity over talent has done the opposite of encouraging acceptance and instead generated skepticism, in someone who didn't require "educating" to begin with. It doesn't actually matter if I'm completely wrong and simply in a bad mood that night, these are my conclusions.
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