The Push channel 4

[Kamov]

Court case of a man accused of murdering his pregnant wife by pushing her off a cliff.
Horrible case, horrible bloke with a horrible family.....
I've seen both episodes and no spoiler's, but incredibly touching viewing....

[scenario8]

I’m one episode in and commented in the 24 hour thread.

He really is coming across as being a terrible human being.

[doogalman]

Watching the second episode. Impressed by the realism I then discovered this is the real court case and people involved. Compelling viewing.

[Kamov]

What was interesting to me was how if you went totally impartial and tried to forget about the evidence that he was a controlling piece of crap, at face value there was a fairly good explanation for an awful chain of events leading to an accident, he slipped into her sending her off the cliff...

But his reaction on being found guilty was totally the reaction of a guilty man, justice served for sure, the defence guy was good but you could see in his face that he knew he was guilty.

It was good to see the family of the victim were as angry as i would be (and was), too many times these days we are told by victims families they forgive, or God told me to forgive, or to not forgive is to carry pain around....or they want to meet the murderer face to face so they can see why they might have done it, too much emphasis put onto the murderer as a victim, bad childhood etc.....

Good to see a family that given the chance would of ripped that waste of skin limb from limb......

[Don Veloci]

I was genuinely conflicted.

My cold hard logic says - no actual evidence of the push.
Not logic but linked - she went up there of her own free will it appeared. Strange time for that kind of walk but I'm very familiar with the tourist attraction and they're all over it at weird times with variably appropriate clothing.

However.....

Yellow card - the picture painted of the abusive and controlling behavior. I can see the point that leans to an emotional response over logic though.

Red card - he had the one phone, was on record as denying it to at least one witness, the only call was to a parent. Add that to the declaration to the copper.

I'd have returned guilty in the jury I reckon despite the pull of the logical point.

[Deerfoot]

In an ideal world she'd have left him at the four month point (when she had the home visit by the police) but I kind of understand her reluctance to do so.

He was a piece of work though, the recordings of the early phone calls set the scene for me, it was obvious he was a controlling, abusive husband.

All this 'honour' stuff is dreadful.

Glad he got banged up.

[Kamov]

Agreed. I'm also obsessed with 'optics' and i quite liked the bit in episode 1 where the victims uncle said he never liked the husband as something about him just wasn't right.
A Muslim Pakistani man saying that about another Muslim Pakistani man is optically very different to a white bloke saying the same about a Muslim Pakistani bloke dating his niece....

You also wonder had either victim or murderer of been white, just how this story would of been spun by both the extreme left and extreme right for their own agenda's......

As always, there is st and good in all walks of life....

And lets be honest, not that it would matter if she, the victim, was not very nice, the fact she was it appeared a truly wonderful clever person made it all the more terrible, and the judge welling up at the end isn't something I've ever seen before on any of these shows...
Very sad end to someone's life... and i left it hoping the uncles go and give the murderers dad a good kicking... although they would have to get there before the Mum does it...

[Short Grain]

Haven't seen it but I'm sure I remember reading about it at the time, or soon after about the court case! In the write ups he came across as a proper wrong'un, controlling, abusive, basically an evil tt who, thankfully, got his comeuppance! Will have to watch it as I can't remember much about his family! Or maybe not, will just piss me off!

[pavarotti1980]

It seemed learned behaviour because his father came across as a bit of a c**t as well. The comments about "reputation" and then the wedding ring highlighted the type of character he was and most likely projected on to his son

[littleredrooster]

I watched both episodes with some fascination because we were there the day before this happened. We ate in a pub looking over to the murder scene and marvelled at the little dots of figures walking along the summit, remarking that it was a long way down!

[Kamov]

pavarotti1980 said:

It seemed learned behaviour because his father came across as a bit of a c**t as well. The comments about "reputation" and then the wedding ring highlighted the type of character he was and most likely projected on to his son

Yes the telling bits were the husband saying she can't dress like a British girl, which means like a slag, that will reflect badly on the father and Husband in their minds.....
She has to play the compliant wife, again otherwise it reflects badly in their minds, it was all about them.
Ultimately I think his Dad was well aware of his son's plan and the power his Dad would of had would of meant he was effectively groomed and modelled in that way from childhood in his father eyes....
Plenty of races and religions have that element so not totally unique.

I was also thinking about how if I was walking up there with my wife, as much as we do argue and don't always get on, I'm sure that in her dying breaths it wouldn't even pass her mind that had I of accidentally knocked her and made her fall, that I would of done it on purpose....

or her to even think that at that moment is terrible....

I said in another thread actually, about The jury show, that honestly if i was on the jury for the Push guy, I would of found him guilty even if i didn't think he pushed her on purpose as he was a st who deserved to be locked up.....
Now as much as the bi polar in me would love to think i was a one off and unique, i imagine there are thousands of people who think like me, and thousands who think a bloke should control his wife or partner...... this is why trial by jury is luck of the draw i guess..

Edited by Kamov on Wednesday 6th March 07:48

[Doofus]

Kamov said:

honestly if i was on the jury for the Push guy, I would of found him guilty even if i didn't think he pushed her on purpose as he was a st who deserved to be locked up.....

[Kamov]

Doofus said:

I know right, he was a st though can we agree on that part?

[Doofus]

Kamov said:

Doofus said:

I know right, he was a st though can we agree on that part?

Absolutely. Your comment bothered me because I was on a jury years ago (child sexual assault), and I didn't believe the defendant had been proven guilty. Everyone else did because "I've got children too, so it stands to reason he's guilty. He's a pervert".

So I stood up and told the court we thought he was guilty (even though I didn't) and when we left the court, one of the jurors said "If I'd known what punishment he'd get, I never would have said he was guilty." I nearly lost it.

Being guilty of one thing doesn't make you guilty of another thing, and the biggest problem we have with juries is that they're randomly selected, and most people are subjective, credulous fkwits.

[Kamov]

Doofus said:

Absolutely. Your comment bothered me because I was on a jury years ago (child sexual assault), and I didn't believe the defendant had been proven guilty. Everyone else did because "I've got children too, so it stands to reason he's guilty. He's a pervert".

So I stood up and told the court we thought he was guilty (even though I didn't) and when we left the court, one of the jurors said "If I'd known what punishment he'd get, I never would have said he was guilty." I nearly lost it.

Being guilty of one thing doesn't make you guilty of another thing, and the biggest problem we have with juries is that they're randomly selected, and most people are subjective, credulous fkwits.

Didn't think he had been proven guilty, or thought he was innocent?
If i thought he was guilty but doubted / questioned the evidence i would of said guilty.
To many people get off on technicalities or lack of evidence when it is clear as day, in those cases I'm going guilty all day long...

I was on a child abuse jury and I went in there with the mindset of "well I've been on the planet nearly 50 years and no child has accused me of fiddling with them so he's guilty"
The fact he was totally guilty was irrelevant to my thought process..... I mean 6 random children don't all decide to make up a story about some bloke for a laugh do they? Sod evidence, what more do you need?

Its like the scroats 4 up who run away from stolen car after a 20 min high speed chase, the police see the driver run away, catch them, but as they couldn't prove who was driving they all get off..... that isn't justice....that's playing a system...

Look people like me do exist, and those not agreeing with me, you need to understand that I don't agree with you on this either, although i am fully aware my views would wind people up i am angry everyday at vile little sts never getting their dues and getting away with stuff based on 'no comment' or lack of evidence when everyone knows they did it..... we are far too soft.....
Thankfully I'm not in charge, a bunch of feeble wet idiots are though, IMO...

And if i couldn't make it any clearer, Tony Martin should of been awarded a medal instead of slammed in prison....

Edited by Kamov on Wednesday 6th March 16:39